How to speak with my daughter about my grandchild

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs don't know what they're talking about, lucky them.

Please DO say something. They might hate you for while, but they won't ignore what you said.

Early intervention is key. BTDT.

Me again. Let me be a little more specific.

Don't say autism. Be factual, not emotional. And suggest an evaluation, not a diagnosis.

I say this because even though autism may be what your mind goes to, it could be inattentive ADHD (lots of overlapping symptoms), or MERLD (Mixed Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder), where it's not entirely clear what's up, but there's a communication issue. Sometimes MERLD leads to an autism diagnosis later.
There could be learning disabilities, such as slow processing speed, dyscalculia, dyslexia, down the road.
Or there could be a physical issue with vision or hearing, musculature, or coordination in space.

The label soup of special needs is complex, so you want to tread carefully.

I've been on DCUM for a decade now, I have a child with a long string of labels, and I'm also a research scientist who has worked on ADHD. Every time someone suggests talking to a parent about their child's potential special needs, the majority of posters are up in arms about it, even though early intervention is absolutely critical in most cases. Their emotions fly directly into the face of reason and science. It says a lot about how special needs are still perceived as shameful and something to hide, which is counter-productive to individual treatment and societal tolerance.

Where are you getting this? Please describe this early intervention. You clearly are overstating your credentials if you are pedaling this nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough case. If you had a good relationship with your daughter and she didn't default to being defensive, I would figure out a way to (sensitively) bring your concerns. But it seems pretty clear that's not going to go well.

So - one out of the box idea - can you find out their pediatrician's name? Call them, say you are a family member of Larla Jones, and you are very concerned about her behaviors and would like to flag them, anonymously, for the doctor. Obviously, they can't say anything to you because of HIPPA, they won't even confirm that they are Larla's doctors. But they can listen and take notes. Be prepared with factual bullet points, not opinions. So, not "I'm worried she has autism. She seems off and doesn't connect well with others." But rather: "I frequently observe Larla with other children her age. She never initiates any interaction. When other children attempt to interact with her, she either ignores them, or gets angry and stomps away. This is a consistent pattern I have observed every time, and I've been there for more than 10 different gatherings. She will not make eye contact with me for more than a fleeting second, despite me being well known to her."

Once she starts school, you can do the same with her teachers.

The teachers and the doctor will NOT talk to you - don't try to engage them in any back-and-forth, don't request anything like an evaluation as you have no authority to do so. But you can talk, and they will listen, and then they will know to pay special attention to these concerns, and will be more likely to flag this. Your daughter will be much more likely to listen to them than you, and it won't harm your relationship - she'll never be the wiser.

For the record, I usually wouldn't ever support going behind someone's back. But this isn't for your daughter - it's for your granddaughter.

That would be such a violation of my family boundaries that grandma would be cut off. What a horrible suggestion. I know people who did exactly this. It is a Hippa violation if they admit the grandchild is a patient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 3 yo DD has selective mutism and I was in denial about it for 8 months while my mother was expressing concerns. But I finally listened to her and got DD help and she is doing so much better. I'm immensely grateful to my mother even though she can be a PITA sometimes lol. So I think depending on the relationship you have with your daughter it can be done. I would just avoid speculating about the causes/diagnosis and focus on what specific behaviors you are seeing that you think are not normal and what your daughter CAN do - give her the number for Child Find, tell her they'll assess for free. E.g. "I noticed that Larla doesn't make a lot of eye contact, I think it might be worth getting an assessment from Child Find to see if this is a sign of a larger issue."

Riiiiight Grandma.

[Anonymous]

Grandparents like you are the worst. Unless you learn boundaries and decency, I pretty much guarantee you are out of that kids life by the time they're 6. If the parents want your opinion, they'll ask. Stop assessing your grandchild, your things you've noticed just make you sound like an awful person. They are 3, enjoy them, if that's possible for you.

Signed person whose inlaws were convinced my 3 year old had autism and stared at and studied him weirdly all the time, and now haven't seen him in 9 years. And no, he does not have autism.

[Anonymous]

They will miss a lot of time, yes, but they will find out eventually. They aren’t the only ones in denial or clueless so it will be ok.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am a career nanny and I have worked with several kids on the autism spectrum and your daughter and SIL are unfortunately typical.

A large part of early diagnosis is parent surveys and if they are in denial about the behaviors your grandchild won't be diagnosable until she is old enough for it to show up on other kinds of testing.

In my experience, with people like this, bringing it up backfires because then when school finally mentions it, the parents won’t tell you about it because they think you are biased. My advice would be to hold your tongue about doctors and therapies and diagnoses and instead do two things:

1) Document behavior you see that leads you to think there is an issue. Don’t tell the parents, just take notes after visits and if there are things that seem off keep track. She has a 20-minute meltdown? Who was there, what was happening, what set her off, what did everyone do before/during/after, how did she display the tantrum, how did she eventually calm down? If she has ASD, at some point she is likely to be treated and when that happens you can email the notes to the specialist treating her. It will help with a faster diagnosis of exactly what is going on. You can tell the parents you are doing this without telling them how long you have been taking notes.

2) Start researching schools in your area that are geared to ASD kids but also have a sizeable population of mainstream students. If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten. At that point, her parents will either come to grips with the reality of the situation or double down. It will be better for her if you can suggest some schools to transfer to that might accommodate her even if her parents don’t think she needs accommodations. You can tell them “this school is really great for kids who need a lot of activity!” Without expressly stating that Needing a lot of sensory input to regulate is a symptom of her diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs don't know what they're talking about, lucky them.

Please DO say something. They might hate you for while, but they won't ignore what you said.

Early intervention is key. BTDT.

Me again. Let me be a little more specific.

Don't say autism. Be factual, not emotional. And suggest an evaluation, not a diagnosis.

I say this because even though autism may be what your mind goes to, it could be inattentive ADHD (lots of overlapping symptoms), or MERLD (Mixed Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder), where it's not entirely clear what's up, but there's a communication issue. Sometimes MERLD leads to an autism diagnosis later.
There could be learning disabilities, such as slow processing speed, dyscalculia, dyslexia, down the road.
Or there could be a physical issue with vision or hearing, musculature, or coordination in space.

The label soup of special needs is complex, so you want to tread carefully.

I've been on DCUM for a decade now, I have a child with a long string of labels, and I'm also a research scientist who has worked on ADHD. Every time someone suggests talking to a parent about their child's potential special needs, the majority of posters are up in arms about it, even though early intervention is absolutely critical in most cases. Their emotions fly directly into the face of reason and science. It says a lot about how special needs are still perceived as shameful and something to hide, which is counter-productive to individual treatment and societal tolerance.

Where are you getting this? Please describe this early intervention. You clearly are overstating your credentials if you are pedaling this nonsense.

Are you saying there’s no benefit to early intervention? What are your credentials?

[Anonymous]

I suspected it in my nephew but ultimately didn't say anything. Preschool teachers did, but initially parents didn't accept it. In kg they finally did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs don't know what they're talking about, lucky them.

Please DO say something. They might hate you for while, but they won't ignore what you said.

Early intervention is key. BTDT.

Me again. Let me be a little more specific.

Don't say autism. Be factual, not emotional. And suggest an evaluation, not a diagnosis.

I say this because even though autism may be what your mind goes to, it could be inattentive ADHD (lots of overlapping symptoms), or MERLD (Mixed Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder), where it's not entirely clear what's up, but there's a communication issue. Sometimes MERLD leads to an autism diagnosis later.
There could be learning disabilities, such as slow processing speed, dyscalculia, dyslexia, down the road.
Or there could be a physical issue with vision or hearing, musculature, or coordination in space.

The label soup of special needs is complex, so you want to tread carefully.

I've been on DCUM for a decade now, I have a child with a long string of labels, and I'm also a research scientist who has worked on ADHD. Every time someone suggests talking to a parent about their child's potential special needs, the majority of posters are up in arms about it, even though early intervention is absolutely critical in most cases. Their emotions fly directly into the face of reason and science. It says a lot about how special needs are still perceived as shameful and something to hide, which is counter-productive to individual treatment and societal tolerance.

Where are you getting this? Please describe this early intervention. You clearly are overstating your credentials if you are pedaling this nonsense.

Are you saying there’s no benefit to early intervention? What are your credentials?

I'm a parent of children with disabilities and an advocate. You are full of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a career nanny and I have worked with several kids on the autism spectrum and your daughter and SIL are unfortunately typical.

A large part of early diagnosis is parent surveys and if they are in denial about the behaviors your grandchild won't be diagnosable until she is old enough for it to show up on other kinds of testing.

In my experience, with people like this, bringing it up backfires because then when school finally mentions it, the parents won’t tell you about it because they think you are biased. My advice would be to hold your tongue about doctors and therapies and diagnoses and instead do two things:

1) Document behavior you see that leads you to think there is an issue. Don’t tell the parents, just take notes after visits and if there are things that seem off keep track. She has a 20-minute meltdown? Who was there, what was happening, what set her off, what did everyone do before/during/after, how did she display the tantrum, how did she eventually calm down? If she has ASD, at some point she is likely to be treated and when that happens you can email the notes to the specialist treating her. It will help with a faster diagnosis of exactly what is going on. You can tell the parents you are doing this without telling them how long you have been taking notes.

2) Start researching schools in your area that are geared to ASD kids but also have a sizeable population of mainstream students. If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten. At that point, her parents will either come to grips with the reality of the situation or double down. It will be better for her if you can suggest some schools to transfer to that might accommodate her even if her parents don’t think she needs accommodations. You can tell them “this school is really great for kids who need a lot of activity!” Without expressly stating that Needing a lot of sensory input to regulate is a symptom of her diagnosis.

This is an outrageous violation of the family's privacy that I am stunned you are suggesting this. Any professional would report this to the parents and ignore it. They could be sued if they used any of this information and they know it is unethical to use this unsolicited information.

Further showing you have no clue is your statement " If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten." This is so patently false. You are clueless and if any parent hired you and knew you were suggesting this and they had a child on spectrum, you would be fired.

What disgusts me the most about your post and op's are the dishonest, manipulative attempts to insert someone in to this who is not the parent and has no right. You are suggesting sneaky, underhanded, dishonest ways of involving yourselves where you do not belong.

You are awful people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a career nanny and I have worked with several kids on the autism spectrum and your daughter and SIL are unfortunately typical.

A large part of early diagnosis is parent surveys and if they are in denial about the behaviors your grandchild won't be diagnosable until she is old enough for it to show up on other kinds of testing.

In my experience, with people like this, bringing it up backfires because then when school finally mentions it, the parents won’t tell you about it because they think you are biased. My advice would be to hold your tongue about doctors and therapies and diagnoses and instead do two things:

1) Document behavior you see that leads you to think there is an issue. Don’t tell the parents, just take notes after visits and if there are things that seem off keep track. She has a 20-minute meltdown? Who was there, what was happening, what set her off, what did everyone do before/during/after, how did she display the tantrum, how did she eventually calm down? If she has ASD, at some point she is likely to be treated and when that happens you can email the notes to the specialist treating her. It will help with a faster diagnosis of exactly what is going on. You can tell the parents you are doing this without telling them how long you have been taking notes.

2) Start researching schools in your area that are geared to ASD kids but also have a sizeable population of mainstream students. If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten. At that point, her parents will either come to grips with the reality of the situation or double down. It will be better for her if you can suggest some schools to transfer to that might accommodate her even if her parents don’t think she needs accommodations. You can tell them “this school is really great for kids who need a lot of activity!” Without expressly stating that Needing a lot of sensory input to regulate is a symptom of her diagnosis.

This is an outrageous violation of the family's privacy that I am stunned you are suggesting this. Any professional would report this to the parents and ignore it. They could be sued if they used any of this information and they know it is unethical to use this unsolicited information.

Further showing you have no clue is your statement " If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten." This is so patently false. You are clueless and if any parent hired you and knew you were suggesting this and they had a child on spectrum, you would be fired.

What disgusts me the most about your post and op's are the dishonest, manipulative attempts to insert someone in to this who is not the parent and has no right. You are suggesting sneaky, underhanded, dishonest ways of involving yourselves where you do not belong.

You are awful people.

You are right that I misspoke/wrote when I said that she would not be able to function in a mainstream K classroom with ASD. Obviously there is a huge range and many kids are fine, especially with minimal accommodations. But if OP’a grandchild is in the category where early intervention would be helpful AND her parents are not seeking any resources or support and instead are fully in denial, then IME, things will blow up around K. In preschool, it is still normal to struggle to communicate, to have tantrums, to occasionally get physical with peers. But Kindergarten is where those behaviors are not tolerated or regarded as expected and typical by most mainstream teachers, especially if it is a School with >20 kids per class. If the kid gets to that point and the parents still refuse to consider other options (I have seen this happen. I even saw a kid get kicked out of the school for multiple incidents of biting classmates and the parents just switched to a different and more expensive private school). If that happens, being able to steer the parents to some schools that will better meet the kid’s needs can be helpful.

As for the notes, as I said, the OP can’t submit the notes without the parents permission, but she can start taking them now and she can downplay how concerned she was to start writing them if the parents are still in denial.

I don’t think I know better than everyone, and certainly there are many amazing, flexible, and insightful SN parents. But there are also parents who refuse to acknowledge any SN in their kid even when the kid is clearly struggling and every other person is flagging that the kid needs more support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you at the playground every single day?

She was at the playground the day the kid ignored other kids, played only alone and the mother commented “how well she played with others, showcasing her skewed perception of events.

Don’t bother, OP. As you can see, people are far too invested in their own defensiveness and denial and will ony lash out at you for telling the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a career nanny and I have worked with several kids on the autism spectrum and your daughter and SIL are unfortunately typical.

A large part of early diagnosis is parent surveys and if they are in denial about the behaviors your grandchild won't be diagnosable until she is old enough for it to show up on other kinds of testing.

In my experience, with people like this, bringing it up backfires because then when school finally mentions it, the parents won’t tell you about it because they think you are biased. My advice would be to hold your tongue about doctors and therapies and diagnoses and instead do two things:

1) Document behavior you see that leads you to think there is an issue. Don’t tell the parents, just take notes after visits and if there are things that seem off keep track. She has a 20-minute meltdown? Who was there, what was happening, what set her off, what did everyone do before/during/after, how did she display the tantrum, how did she eventually calm down? If she has ASD, at some point she is likely to be treated and when that happens you can email the notes to the specialist treating her. It will help with a faster diagnosis of exactly what is going on. You can tell the parents you are doing this without telling them how long you have been taking notes.

2) Start researching schools in your area that are geared to ASD kids but also have a sizeable population of mainstream students. If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten. At that point, her parents will either come to grips with the reality of the situation or double down. It will be better for her if you can suggest some schools to transfer to that might accommodate her even if her parents don’t think she needs accommodations. You can tell them “this school is really great for kids who need a lot of activity!” Without expressly stating that Needing a lot of sensory input to regulate is a symptom of her diagnosis.

This is an outrageous violation of the family's privacy that I am stunned you are suggesting this. Any professional would report this to the parents and ignore it. They could be sued if they used any of this information and they know it is unethical to use this unsolicited information.

Further showing you have no clue is your statement " If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten." This is so patently false. You are clueless and if any parent hired you and knew you were suggesting this and they had a child on spectrum, you would be fired.

What disgusts me the most about your post and op's are the dishonest, manipulative attempts to insert someone in to this who is not the parent and has no right. You are suggesting sneaky, underhanded, dishonest ways of involving yourselves where you do not belong.

You are awful people.

You are right that I misspoke/wrote when I said that she would not be able to function in a mainstream K classroom with ASD. Obviously there is a huge range and many kids are fine, especially with minimal accommodations. But if OP’a grandchild is in the category where early intervention would be helpful AND her parents are not seeking any resources or support and instead are fully in denial, then IME, things will blow up around K. In preschool, it is still normal to struggle to communicate, to have tantrums, to occasionally get physical with peers. But Kindergarten is where those behaviors are not tolerated or regarded as expected and typical by most mainstream teachers, especially if it is a School with >20 kids per class. If the kid gets to that point and the parents still refuse to consider other options (I have seen this happen. I even saw a kid get kicked out of the school for multiple incidents of biting classmates and the parents just switched to a different and more expensive private school). If that happens, being able to steer the parents to some schools that will better meet the kid’s needs can be helpful.

As for the notes, as I said, the OP can’t submit the notes without the parents permission, but she can start taking them now and she can downplay how concerned she was to start writing them if the parents are still in denial.

I don’t think I know better than everyone, and certainly there are many amazing, flexible, and insightful SN parents. But there are also parents who refuse to acknowledge any SN in their kid even when the kid is clearly struggling and every other person is flagging that the kid needs more support.

Did you even read what OP wrote? Nothing to indicate aggression at all. Her concerns are all around lack of eye-contact, the fact that this 3yo plays on her own when around other kids, and a general sense that the child doesn't seem "connected". She is not noticing any sensory seeking behavior, no aggression, no intense obsessions, no meltdowns/tantrums that last an unusually long time or where typical efforts to help calm the child don't work.

OP has a shy, reserved GD, and rather than just accept that and focus on her relationship with her GD, she's trying to pathologize it. I'd bet you anything that this is really about the fact that OP does not feel that her GD is affectionate enough or connected enough to OP. I've seen this before. Grandma doesn't get hugs and "I love you" on demand, so something must be wrong with this child, please have someone examine her. OP is not the first grandmother to decide that her grandchild must have autism because she doesn't perform well enough for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PPs don't know what they're talking about, lucky them.

Please DO say something. They might hate you for while, but they won't ignore what you said.

Early intervention is key. BTDT.

Me again. Let me be a little more specific.

Don't say autism. Be factual, not emotional. And suggest an evaluation, not a diagnosis.

I say this because even though autism may be what your mind goes to, it could be inattentive ADHD (lots of overlapping symptoms), or MERLD (Mixed Expressive-Receptive Language Disorder), where it's not entirely clear what's up, but there's a communication issue. Sometimes MERLD leads to an autism diagnosis later.
There could be learning disabilities, such as slow processing speed, dyscalculia, dyslexia, down the road.
Or there could be a physical issue with vision or hearing, musculature, or coordination in space.

The label soup of special needs is complex, so you want to tread carefully.

I've been on DCUM for a decade now, I have a child with a long string of labels, and I'm also a research scientist who has worked on ADHD. Every time someone suggests talking to a parent about their child's potential special needs, the majority of posters are up in arms about it, even though early intervention is absolutely critical in most cases. Their emotions fly directly into the face of reason and science. It says a lot about how special needs are still perceived as shameful and something to hide, which is counter-productive to individual treatment and societal tolerance.

Where are you getting this? Please describe this early intervention. You clearly are overstating your credentials if you are pedaling this nonsense.

Are you saying there’s no benefit to early intervention? What are your credentials?

I'm a parent of children with disabilities and an advocate. You are full of it.

I’m a parent of a child diagnosed with ASD and I’m calling BS on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a career nanny and I have worked with several kids on the autism spectrum and your daughter and SIL are unfortunately typical.

A large part of early diagnosis is parent surveys and if they are in denial about the behaviors your grandchild won't be diagnosable until she is old enough for it to show up on other kinds of testing.

In my experience, with people like this, bringing it up backfires because then when school finally mentions it, the parents won’t tell you about it because they think you are biased. My advice would be to hold your tongue about doctors and therapies and diagnoses and instead do two things:

1) Document behavior you see that leads you to think there is an issue. Don’t tell the parents, just take notes after visits and if there are things that seem off keep track. She has a 20-minute meltdown? Who was there, what was happening, what set her off, what did everyone do before/during/after, how did she display the tantrum, how did she eventually calm down? If she has ASD, at some point she is likely to be treated and when that happens you can email the notes to the specialist treating her. It will help with a faster diagnosis of exactly what is going on. You can tell the parents you are doing this without telling them how long you have been taking notes.

2) Start researching schools in your area that are geared to ASD kids but also have a sizeable population of mainstream students. If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten. At that point, her parents will either come to grips with the reality of the situation or double down. It will be better for her if you can suggest some schools to transfer to that might accommodate her even if her parents don’t think she needs accommodations. You can tell them “this school is really great for kids who need a lot of activity!” Without expressly stating that Needing a lot of sensory input to regulate is a symptom of her diagnosis.

This is an outrageous violation of the family's privacy that I am stunned you are suggesting this. Any professional would report this to the parents and ignore it. They could be sued if they used any of this information and they know it is unethical to use this unsolicited information.

Further showing you have no clue is your statement " If she has ASD, she will not be able to function in a typical classroom past Kindergarten." This is so patently false. You are clueless and if any parent hired you and knew you were suggesting this and they had a child on spectrum, you would be fired.

What disgusts me the most about your post and op's are the dishonest, manipulative attempts to insert someone in to this who is not the parent and has no right. You are suggesting sneaky, underhanded, dishonest ways of involving yourselves where you do not belong.

You are awful people.

You are right that I misspoke/wrote when I said that she would not be able to function in a mainstream K classroom with ASD. Obviously there is a huge range and many kids are fine, especially with minimal accommodations. But if OP’a grandchild is in the category where early intervention would be helpful AND her parents are not seeking any resources or support and instead are fully in denial, then IME, things will blow up around K. In preschool, it is still normal to struggle to communicate, to have tantrums, to occasionally get physical with peers. But Kindergarten is where those behaviors are not tolerated or regarded as expected and typical by most mainstream teachers, especially if it is a School with >20 kids per class. If the kid gets to that point and the parents still refuse to consider other options (I have seen this happen. I even saw a kid get kicked out of the school for multiple incidents of biting classmates and the parents just switched to a different and more expensive private school). If that happens, being able to steer the parents to some schools that will better meet the kid’s needs can be helpful.

As for the notes, as I said, the OP can’t submit the notes without the parents permission, but she can start taking them now and she can downplay how concerned she was to start writing them if the parents are still in denial.

I don’t think I know better than everyone, and certainly there are many amazing, flexible, and insightful SN parents. But there are also parents who refuse to acknowledge any SN in their kid even when the kid is clearly struggling and every other person is flagging that the kid needs more support.

You are still advocating for op to be sneaky and dishonest. I, and any of the sns parents I know, would fire you in a heartbeat. You are probably a troll and you are full of it.