How to speak with my daughter about my grandchild

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SN mom here. In my experience, including with my own parents, family members like you have a very specific agenda. They want to point out the special need in order to have it mediated quickly and within a certain window. They do not want to face the notion of a lifelong disability and cannot, in fact, handle that idea. Have you thought about the idea that autism is lifelong? That therapy may assist your GC but is not a cure? My parents wanted my daughter whisked promptly to multiple therapies but became frustrated, disinterested, and even contemptuous when she "failed" to get better.

Your grandchild is not an improvement project like leaky downspouts you point out on their house. She's a person.

You are projecting a lot. I have a child who was diagnosed with ASD at 22 months old. I will always be grateful to my mom who pointed out that she was not meeting milestones like my niece and nephew did. My mom didn’t push or nag, she just said her piece and left the rest to us.

Did you not have a pediatrician who was monitoring milestones? Did you not have access to the internet to check those milestones yourself?

Ped was way too relaxed ( we have another doctor now). We were looking at milestones but weren’t very alarmed until we saw the difference. Why is it hard for you to believe that some of us may not see our parents as the anti-Christ?

We had similar experience with a gross motor delay that didn’t become very apparent until age 3. DD met all milestones a tiny bit late before then. Ped was not concerned at the small delays leading up to that point. Earlier intervention would have had a better outcome for DD.

[Anonymous]

The M-CHAT is only valid from 16-30 months

Ages and Stages has social-emotional questionnaires for different age groups: https://www.delnortekids.org/uploads/8/2/8/1/82819108/master_set.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that my 3 year old granddaughter should be screened for autism. I am very close to my daughter and she and my son-in-law seem to be in complete denial about the fact that she has many of the symptoms, so I wouldn't find it surprising if they were not completely honest with themselves when completing the autism survey at the doctor's office. My daughter is very defensive, so I am afraid of telling her that I think my granddaughter should get screened and angering her. My granddaughter is starting preschool for the first time in the fall and I'm hoping that her teachers will say something, but I am not sure if that's a reasonable expectation. Also, even if they do say something, I worry about her missing out on services in the interim. Has anyone waited to have this conversation and regretted it? Has anyone had it in a similar circumstance and found that it went well?

Who’s doctors office has an autism survey? I’ve never heard of that.

Any good pediatrician will be asking screening questions for any developmental delays, including autism. Based on our answers at the pediatrician’s office they told us our kid was at high risk of having autism, and that we should contact Infants and Toddlers for EI, and Children’s National for a diagnosis. That was at the 15 month check up.

OP, say SOMETHING, but I wouldn’t like, nag and nag about it. They might be doing more than you think. Wait lists for evaluations can be really, really long. They might have signed up to get on one and didn’t tell you?

Please carefully consider ABA. It’s the default treatment for ASD, but many, many autistic people have spoken up about how damaging it can be. IMO speech therapy and occupational therapy is far more useful. ABA is all about compliance, which is problematic.

[Anonymous]

How often do you see your granddaughter? I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she is very shy. My 4.5 yo son is a total chatterbox with me and a handful of other people he is very comfortable around, but he clams up around people he doesn't know as well. I think the pandemic probably made this worse than it would be otherwise, because of the lack of socialization.

I could see how someone who only interacted with him once in a while might he think he was on the spectrum, but I would be very dismissive if someone suggested that to me bc I know the version of him that they see is not the whole picture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How often do you see your granddaughter? I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she is very shy. My 4.5 yo son is a total chatterbox with me and a handful of other people he is very comfortable around, but he clams up around people he doesn't know as well. I think the pandemic probably made this worse than it would be otherwise, because of the lack of socialization.

I could see how someone who only interacted with him once in a while might he think he was on the spectrum, but I would be very dismissive if someone suggested that to me bc I know the version of him that they see is not the whole picture

+1

And the setting you see her in makes a difference, too. If you are staying with your DD and her family for a week or more while they are on their normal schedule and seeing your granddaughter interacting with her parents and at home in her element, that is much more indicative of her actual personality and development than if you only see them when they visit you or mainly at holidays or family events where the child is not on her normal schedule and is encountering a lot of people she doesn't know well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough case. If you had a good relationship with your daughter and she didn't default to being defensive, I would figure out a way to (sensitively) bring your concerns. But it seems pretty clear that's not going to go well.

So - one out of the box idea - can you find out their pediatrician's name? Call them, say you are a family member of Larla Jones, and you are very concerned about her behaviors and would like to flag them, anonymously, for the doctor. Obviously, they can't say anything to you because of HIPPA, they won't even confirm that they are Larla's doctors. But they can listen and take notes. Be prepared with factual bullet points, not opinions. So, not "I'm worried she has autism. She seems off and doesn't connect well with others." But rather: "I frequently observe Larla with other children her age. She never initiates any interaction. When other children attempt to interact with her, she either ignores them, or gets angry and stomps away. This is a consistent pattern I have observed every time, and I've been there for more than 10 different gatherings. She will not make eye contact with me for more than a fleeting second, despite me being well known to her."

Once she starts school, you can do the same with her teachers.

The teachers and the doctor will NOT talk to you - don't try to engage them in any back-and-forth, don't request anything like an evaluation as you have no authority to do so. But you can talk, and they will listen, and then they will know to pay special attention to these concerns, and will be more likely to flag this. Your daughter will be much more likely to listen to them than you, and it won't harm your relationship - she'll never be the wiser.

For the record, I usually wouldn't ever support going behind someone's back. But this isn't for your daughter - it's for your granddaughter.

Please don't do this. I would never speak to my mother again if I found out she had done this. I'm not kidding.

Yeah, this is insane. Here's another "out of the box" idea: maybe accept that your daughter knows her child better than you do, and that you may be out of touch with what is normal behavior for a (pandemic) 3yo?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often do you see your granddaughter? I wouldn't rule out the possibility that she is very shy. My 4.5 yo son is a total chatterbox with me and a handful of other people he is very comfortable around, but he clams up around people he doesn't know as well. I think the pandemic probably made this worse than it would be otherwise, because of the lack of socialization.

I could see how someone who only interacted with him once in a while might he think he was on the spectrum, but I would be very dismissive if someone suggested that to me bc I know the version of him that they see is not the whole picture

+1

And the setting you see her in makes a difference, too. If you are staying with your DD and her family for a week or more while they are on their normal schedule and seeing your granddaughter interacting with her parents and at home in her element, that is much more indicative of her actual personality and development than if you only see them when they visit you or mainly at holidays or family events where the child is not on her normal schedule and is encountering a lot of people she doesn't know well.

Differences in behavior across settings can indicate the child is "just shy" or can indicate there is an issue other than autism. This is why an assessment can be helpful and why, if OP chooses to approach her daughter about this she should not speculate about a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that my 3 year old granddaughter should be screened for autism. I am very close to my daughter and she and my son-in-law seem to be in complete denial about the fact that she has many of the symptoms, so I wouldn't find it surprising if they were not completely honest with themselves when completing the autism survey at the doctor's office. My daughter is very defensive, so I am afraid of telling her that I think my granddaughter should get screened and angering her. My granddaughter is starting preschool for the first time in the fall and I'm hoping that her teachers will say something, but I am not sure if that's a reasonable expectation. Also, even if they do say something, I worry about her missing out on services in the interim. Has anyone waited to have this conversation and regretted it? Has anyone had it in a similar circumstance and found that it went well?

Can you explain why you think your daughter and SIL are in complete denial about your granddaughter’s lack of social interaction?

We will go to the playground and my granddaughter will sit in the sandbox playing by herself. When we leave my daughter will say, “She loves playing with the other kids in the sandbox, which is why I’m not getting a sandbox for our house.” When she has play dates with local cousins around her age, she’ll sit on the floor and play by herself, not engaging when they engage her - and not engaging them. At the end of the play date my daughter will say, “They played really well together.”

None of this sounds abnormal for three. If the cousins are a little older that might explain why they are more interactive. Cooperative play starts at 4+. I wouldn’t assume the parents are in denial. They may have a better sense of their daughter. Treating them as if they are in denial though is a sure way to promote defensiveness.


https://pathways.org/kids-learn-play-6-stages-play-development/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP—trust that her teachers will pick up on this. She will get the help and services she needs, if it is the case that she has autism.

the teachers will not necessarily pick up on it nor do they have an incentive to pick up on it until the child falls behind (if she ever does). What do you think teachers do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough case. If you had a good relationship with your daughter and she didn't default to being defensive, I would figure out a way to (sensitively) bring your concerns. But it seems pretty clear that's not going to go well.

So - one out of the box idea - can you find out their pediatrician's name? Call them, say you are a family member of Larla Jones, and you are very concerned about her behaviors and would like to flag them, anonymously, for the doctor. Obviously, they can't say anything to you because of HIPPA, they won't even confirm that they are Larla's doctors. But they can listen and take notes. Be prepared with factual bullet points, not opinions. So, not "I'm worried she has autism. She seems off and doesn't connect well with others." But rather: "I frequently observe Larla with other children her age. She never initiates any interaction. When other children attempt to interact with her, she either ignores them, or gets angry and stomps away. This is a consistent pattern I have observed every time, and I've been there for more than 10 different gatherings. She will not make eye contact with me for more than a fleeting second, despite me being well known to her."

Once she starts school, you can do the same with her teachers.

The teachers and the doctor will NOT talk to you - don't try to engage them in any back-and-forth, don't request anything like an evaluation as you have no authority to do so. But you can talk, and they will listen, and then they will know to pay special attention to these concerns, and will be more likely to flag this. Your daughter will be much more likely to listen to them than you, and it won't harm your relationship - she'll never be the wiser.

For the record, I usually wouldn't ever support going behind someone's back. But this isn't for your daughter - it's for your granddaughter.

NP -- this is TERRIBLE advice, and I am pro-talking to your DD about your GC, but this is completely overstepping all boundaries and wildly inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

My sister’s MIL had this incredibly difficult conversation with her. She spent A LOT of time with the grandchild. He was younger, my sister was very upset, our mom was angry, lots of emotions. but he ended up being diagnosed with severe autism. I have always admired her MiL for the courage to say something.
And yes, my sister was most certainly fooling herself to pass the MCHAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough case. If you had a good relationship with your daughter and she didn't default to being defensive, I would figure out a way to (sensitively) bring your concerns. But it seems pretty clear that's not going to go well.

So - one out of the box idea - can you find out their pediatrician's name? Call them, say you are a family member of Larla Jones, and you are very concerned about her behaviors and would like to flag them, anonymously, for the doctor. Obviously, they can't say anything to you because of HIPPA, they won't even confirm that they are Larla's doctors. But they can listen and take notes. Be prepared with factual bullet points, not opinions. So, not "I'm worried she has autism. She seems off and doesn't connect well with others." But rather: "I frequently observe Larla with other children her age. She never initiates any interaction. When other children attempt to interact with her, she either ignores them, or gets angry and stomps away. This is a consistent pattern I have observed every time, and I've been there for more than 10 different gatherings. She will not make eye contact with me for more than a fleeting second, despite me being well known to her."

Once she starts school, you can do the same with her teachers.

The teachers and the doctor will NOT talk to you - don't try to engage them in any back-and-forth, don't request anything like an evaluation as you have no authority to do so. But you can talk, and they will listen, and then they will know to pay special attention to these concerns, and will be more likely to flag this. Your daughter will be much more likely to listen to them than you, and it won't harm your relationship - she'll never be the wiser.

For the record, I usually wouldn't ever support going behind someone's back. But this isn't for your daughter - it's for your granddaughter.

We will NOT listen and we will tell the parent that someone is attempting to influence their child's medical care/education. This is batsh*t crazy advice.

[Anonymous]

The fact that a child only engages in parallel play at 3 is not an indicator or flag for autism. You are hearing hoofbeats and thinking zebras.

[Anonymous]

I would stay out of it. So many of the toddlers I know have what looks like autism signs but what is really pandemic/isolation weirdness (which will presumably normalize as people become more social). I promise you, any pediatrician worth their salt will notice abnormalities. My ped doesn't just do the surveys, she also does in-person checks on developmental stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP—trust that her teachers will pick up on this. She will get the help and services she needs, if it is the case that she has autism.

the teachers will not necessarily pick up on it nor do they have an incentive to pick up on it until the child falls behind (if she ever does). What do you think teachers do?

Well…as a teacher, I’m in a position to share observations from spending hours with a child. I have a pretty good idea of what’s developmentally appropriate for a particular age and can speak to that. My job is to form a positive, caring relationship with the parent so that we can share our celebrations, questions and concerns about the child. My “incentive” is that I’m a professional who cares about all of my students and wants to see them succeed. If I’m noticing something that is of concern, it’s my job to talk with the parent about it. It might be addressed in the classroom. I might suggest sharing the observations and concerns with an appropriate medical provider or therapist. It depends on what the issue is.