Paying for dates

[Anonymous]

When I go out with friends, we split unless it’s somebody’s birthday or something, I do the same with my dates. Why would I expect a free meal when both of us are agreeing to see each other?

[Anonymous]

Well, somebody has to ask but by agreeing you shoe your intent to share. If you have a limited budget, you suggest something affordable. It’s not like a good date requires a fancy meal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why generosity is a required trait for men but not for women? It’s not like women can’t be stingy or have problem sharing?

I’m the poster who keeps talking about generosity— I think it is an important trait for everyone. I just booked a vacation for my family all out of “my” money (we have joint accounts and then we each get a set figure for discretionary spending, I have been putting some of mine aside for this) and my airlines miles. I could of course have just bought myself something but that’s not how I value using money. My husband would say he “screened” for generosity based on how I was willing to help him study before we were dating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I go out with friends, we split unless it’s somebody’s birthday or something, I do the same with my dates. Why would I expect a free meal when both of us are agreeing to see each other?

When you first start dating, you're not usually friends like that. Just because you are agreeing to go to out with somebody doesn't automatically mean you have to pay for your meal. Think of a boss taking an prospective employee out, a lobbyist taking out a politician, somebody asking a potential mentor to grab a lunch, etc. I think dating can go either way, but a first date is very different from going to brunch with friends you have known for years.

[Anonymous]

OP, what if you go on a first dinner date and decide you don't like the woman (but she likes you). What would you do in that situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. I always insisted on splitting the check, but I have found I’m an outlier. Sadly, even those who offer (I had to truly insist) will still expect you to pay. And lots of women will never go out with you again if you don’t.

I think it’s crappy, but it’s the reality.

I am a 50+ yrs woman and I have always paid for myself when I was single.

Here is what I taught my now 20-something single DD -
- Always pay for your share on a date. Allowing any man to pay for your meal is a privilege you should bestow only to a person who has earned it. Also, it cheapens you to have a person you are not interested in to pay for you in any way.
- Takes your own car/arrange for your own transportation.
- First two dates should be low-key (grab a coffee, share a pizza), in public places in the daytime, for some casual and fun activity (concerts, plays, games) etc.
- There is no rule that says "sex on third date". Sex happens only when both people are ready or it is ok for it to not happen for a long time. Many men think that paying for a date entitles them to some sexual favors from a woman.
- Your parents can very comfortably afford to fund your meals, social life and normal student lifestyle. So use that privilege and keep yourself and your self-esteem protected. Do not be beholden to anyone and do not take that mental burden on yourself.

DD remains our responsibility until she is herself financially emancipated and settled in a good career.

BTW...DD also approved of this. Once she is asked on a date, she very quickly tells the person that she will agree only if they can go dutch. And most men agree. As it is, she is only going out to low cost dates the first few times and it does not break her bank either. Surprisingly, she sometimes goes for several of these low cost dutch dates with the same person (it takes her that much time to figure out if she is interested) before she will agree to a nice dinner that the guy pays for etc.

She does not wait for the man to tell her to split the bill during or after the date. That would be really awkward and she will probably never go out with such a boorish person again. She errs on the side of thinking that the men are well brought up and chivalrous and would want to pay, and so she tells them that to go dutch is her idea, before accepting the date. It lets the men off the hook. There are a million little things that she is watching out for in a man, so, if he pays for the date is not what she is judging him on.

Also, she feels that her paying for her own share in a graceful manner actually makes the men respect her more. Even the dates that did not work out, the man did not have any ill-will for her and they remained friendly acquaintances. No one likes to be taken advantage of - men or women. One last thing. Not everyone had parents who bankroll them as we do our DD. Most of these men are working jobs in college to make money. It is usually hard earned money for college and other expenses. My DD should not think that she has some sort of dibs on their earnings just because she is a female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

I disagree that first date check-splitting psychology is an all-encompassing test for generosity. It's fine that your view is your own. I have the patience and a deep enough pocket to suss out generosity in more ways.

It’s not an all encompassing test. First hurdle.

Slightly different than OP, but usually in dating it’s to screen for a prospective co parent. I definitely want someone who is going to be all out for my (our) kids — who wouldn’t?

As the woman in the situation, you give your own body to gestate and nurse, you probably are going to do a lot more of the hands on nurturing when they are smaller or be responsible for getting them taken care of. So yes the guy has to show some willingness to give upfront to even get the ball rolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here. I always insisted on splitting the check, but I have found I’m an outlier. Sadly, even those who offer (I had to truly insist) will still expect you to pay. And lots of women will never go out with you again if you don’t.

I think it’s crappy, but it’s the reality.

I am a 50+ yrs woman and I have always paid for myself when I was single.

Here is what I taught my now 20-something single DD -
- Always pay for your share on a date. Allowing any man to pay for your meal is a privilege you should bestow only to a person who has earned it. Also, it cheapens you to have a person you are not interested in to pay for you in any way.
- Takes your own car/arrange for your own transportation.
- First two dates should be low-key (grab a coffee, share a pizza), in public places in the daytime, for some casual and fun activity (concerts, plays, games) etc.
- There is no rule that says "sex on third date". Sex happens only when both people are ready or it is ok for it to not happen for a long time. Many men think that paying for a date entitles them to some sexual favors from a woman.
- Your parents can very comfortably afford to fund your meals, social life and normal student lifestyle. So use that privilege and keep yourself and your self-esteem protected. Do not be beholden to anyone and do not take that mental burden on yourself.

DD remains our responsibility until she is herself financially emancipated and settled in a good career.

BTW...DD also approved of this. Once she is asked on a date, she very quickly tells the person that she will agree only if they can go dutch. And most men agree. As it is, she is only going out to low cost dates the first few times and it does not break her bank either. Surprisingly, she sometimes goes for several of these low cost dutch dates with the same person (it takes her that much time to figure out if she is interested) before she will agree to a nice dinner that the guy pays for etc.

She does not wait for the man to tell her to split the bill during or after the date. That would be really awkward and she will probably never go out with such a boorish person again. She errs on the side of thinking that the men are well brought up and chivalrous and would want to pay, and so she tells them that to go dutch is her idea, before accepting the date. It lets the men off the hook. There are a million little things that she is watching out for in a man, so, if he pays for the date is not what she is judging him on.

Also, she feels that her paying for her own share in a graceful manner actually makes the men respect her more. Even the dates that did not work out, the man did not have any ill-will for her and they remained friendly acquaintances. No one likes to be taken advantage of - men or women. One last thing. Not everyone had parents who bankroll them as we do our DD. Most of these men are working jobs in college to make money. It is usually hard earned money for college and other expenses. My DD should not think that she has some sort of dibs on their earnings just because she is a female.

Impressed by how well thought out this is. What did you teach your DD to look for on the first few dates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

According to my flight attendant friend, in such cases, usually men is either going on company’s dime or has a health issue needing space to raise legs. It’s not possible to buy upgraded tickets for whole family. She said often men who get free upgrade because of frequent flying, let their wife or child to use it.

If this was the whole story, it would be women in business class alone and men in the back at least as often, since women are as likely to have medical issues as men (more likely if you count pregnancy) so there’s probably some of this AND some greedy men.

[Anonymous]

Why generosity is a required trait for men but not for women? It’s not like women can’t be stingy or have problem sharing?


I’m the poster who keeps talking about generosity— I think it is an important trait for everyone. I just booked a vacation for my family all out of “my” money (we have joint accounts and then we each get a set figure for discretionary spending, I have been putting some of mine aside for this) and my airlines miles. I could of course have just bought myself something but that’s not how I value using money. My husband would say he “screened” for generosity based on how I was willing to help him study before we were dating.

I agree that it's odd that men paying for a date (a very traditional approach) somehow is a litmus test or screen for generosity. I actually don't understand the concept of needing such a screen at all. In a relationship, it is a quality you will either see demonstrated in a variety of ways, or not. No one action or inaction should be determinative.

Also, FWIW, I am a woman and the one who always flies business due to a health issue. My DH and kids usually now also fly business, but that was not always the case. I have also seen plenty of men - and women - encourage their spouse to take their business seat, or switch during the flight.

[Anonymous]

I agree that it's odd that men paying for a date (a very traditional approach) somehow is a litmus test or screen for generosity. I actually don't understand the concept of needing such a screen at all. In a relationship, it is a quality you will either see demonstrated in a variety of ways, or not. No one action or inaction should be determinative.

Also, FWIW, I am a woman and the one who always flies business due to a health issue. My DH and kids usually now also fly business, but that was not always the case. I have also seen plenty of men - and women - encourage their spouse to take their business seat, or switch during the flight.

(post was accidentally embedded)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I go out with friends, we split unless it’s somebody’s birthday or something, I do the same with my dates. Why would I expect a free meal when both of us are agreeing to see each other?

When you first start dating, you're not usually friends like that. Just because you are agreeing to go to out with somebody doesn't automatically mean you have to pay for your meal. Think of a boss taking an prospective employee out, a lobbyist taking out a politician, somebody asking a potential mentor to grab a lunch, etc. I think dating can go either way, but a first date is very different from going to brunch with friends you have known for years.

I also pay if I end up grabbing dinner with my boss or even his boss, unless it’s for work and company is reimbursing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's odd that men paying for a date (a very traditional approach) somehow is a litmus test or screen for generosity. I actually don't understand the concept of needing such a screen at all. In a relationship, it is a quality you will either see demonstrated in a variety of ways, or not. No one action or inaction should be determinative.

Also, FWIW, I am a woman and the one who always flies business due to a health issue. My DH and kids usually now also fly business, but that was not always the case. I have also seen plenty of men - and women - encourage their spouse to take their business seat, or switch during the flight.

(post was accidentally embedded)

If it’s a litmus test then it’s for both. It’s not like men can’t see through half hearted lip service to split when someone is bluffing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you are dating, as a woman, you are told you will kiss a lot of frogs to find the right guy. You will hopefully also have been told by your family to know your worth and know what you want in a partner. I do not— and did not— want a partner who saves money on another person. That’s something that’s hard to know at the dating stage! Later in life you see it when a man is driving a new car every year while his wife has an old minivan, or you see an exhausted new mom whose husband objects to the cost of a baby nurse, or a man flying in business class while his wife wrangles the kids on coach. Why waste more than one date on a person like that when the universe has other people in it?

I'm a woman. This "logic" is crazy, and you must hang out with or know some really strange people. Your examples are just beyond ridiculous and do not prove any kind of point. Seriously - I do not know one couple where either of them gets a new car every year, let alone just the man. And families where only the man flies business? I fly all the time and have never seen this.

I know several couples where the man gets a new car every year or every other year. In the case of a couple I know that is currently divorcing the woman has had the same car for six years even though it has been in an accident— her husband drives a new Audi.

I also fly business class for work: I have seen more than a dozen instances of a man who was seated near me in business reunites at the end of the jetway with a wife and kids who were clearly not in business with him.

How would you suggest that people screen for generosity while dating? I’m all about hearing what is more up to date for when my children start dating! I can’t think of great ways that don’t involve a lot of wasted time.

I disagree that first date check-splitting psychology is an all-encompassing test for generosity. It's fine that your view is your own. I have the patience and a deep enough pocket to suss out generosity in more ways.

Generosity test: how do they treat panhandlers? They usually give them money......

[Anonymous]

When I was dating, I always made a genuine offer to split the check. My now-husband took me up on it. I guess I sort of noted it, but at the time, I thought he seemed nice, interesting, smart, and attractive, so the check didn't matter much to me. Turns out, he really is very nice, interesting, smart, and attractive, so I guess my instinct about the check was a good one in his case (though, of course, everyone is different). Just thought I would mention this, as a counterpoint to other responses -- sometimes really great guys do agree to split the check.