So annoyed the cheaters are not getting consequences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The betrayed in the marriage isn't always the victim. What if the cheater was denied intimacy? Wouldn't the consequences fall upon the betrayed spouse for withholding?

No, am actually mature adult would end the marriage first. The betrayed is ALWAYS the victim.

Got it. So you can be physically violent, have a gambling addiction, spend through all of the family money irresponsibly, be a terrible parent, withhold intimacy, but if your spouse cheats on you, you are the victim and everyone must see you that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The betrayed in the marriage isn't always the victim. What if the cheater was denied intimacy? Wouldn't the consequences fall upon the betrayed spouse for withholding?

No, am actually mature adult would end the marriage first. The betrayed is ALWAYS the victim.

Got it. So you can be physically violent, have a gambling addiction, spend through all of the family money irresponsibly, be a terrible parent, withhold intimacy, but if your spouse cheats on you, you are the victim and everyone must see you that way.

You forgot the alcoholism, the refusal to buy a home, the boycotting of all family events and a social life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The betrayed in the marriage isn't always the victim. What if the cheater was denied intimacy? Wouldn't the consequences fall upon the betrayed spouse for withholding?

No, am actually mature adult would end the marriage first. The betrayed is ALWAYS the victim.

Got it. So you can be physically violent, have a gambling addiction, spend through all of the family money irresponsibly, be a terrible parent, withhold intimacy, but if your spouse cheats on you, you are the victim and everyone must see you that way.

NP. This is a circumstance where the cheater is a victim too, and in the case of physical violence it might not be possible to leave. But a) leaving is still the responsible, adult thing to do if there isn’t a risk if physical violence, and b) in the case of “withholding intimacy,” like the original PP said, no the cheater is not the victim. Especially when the person who doesn’t have desire probably actually does want to experience that part of their life again but doesn’t because of different life circumstances.

It’s rare that the person cheating does so because of gambling, physical violence, spending all the family money, being a terrible parent, etc. With men it’s usually just because they want more sex and the wife is too busy to experience much desire, with women it’s usually because they’re resentful of the husband. These people are not victims, as much as they’d like to spin it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The betrayed in the marriage isn't always the victim. What if the cheater was denied intimacy? Wouldn't the consequences fall upon the betrayed spouse for withholding?

No, am actually mature adult would end the marriage first. The betrayed is ALWAYS the victim.

Got it. So you can be physically violent, have a gambling addiction, spend through all of the family money irresponsibly, be a terrible parent, withhold intimacy, but if your spouse cheats on you, you are the victim and everyone must see you that way.

You forgot the alcoholism, the refusal to buy a home, the boycotting of all family events and a social life.

Or the severe depression that they refuse to get treated for. Days and days of sleeping while you raise the kids and literally do not speak to you for a week because they don't have the energy.

[Anonymous]

Like many examples above, this is why a lot of people really don't reflexively judge cheaters. I definitely come down on the side of "cheating is wrong" but I can also understand why people do it and I don't see the betrayed as always the victim so why would I expect "consequences"?

It's just as possible the person who was a jackass to their spouse in the marriage is getting their consequences by being cheated on.

And of course, I know there are many wonderful people who did nothing to deserve being cheated on and to them they have my earnest sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like many examples above, this is why a lot of people really don't reflexively judge cheaters. I definitely come down on the side of "cheating is wrong" but I can also understand why people do it and I don't see the betrayed as always the victim so why would I expect "consequences"?

It's just as possible the person who was a jackass to their spouse in the marriage is getting their consequences by being cheated on.

And of course, I know there are many wonderful people who did nothing to deserve being cheated on and to them they have my earnest sympathy.

Right but try to tell that to the relationship fixers and they will say the first thing is you can’t blame the person you cheated on for your behavior. It all becomes about the cheating as if you have forfeited the relationship itself and your rights in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like many examples above, this is why a lot of people really don't reflexively judge cheaters. I definitely come down on the side of "cheating is wrong" but I can also understand why people do it and I don't see the betrayed as always the victim so why would I expect "consequences"?

It's just as possible the person who was a jackass to their spouse in the marriage is getting their consequences by being cheated on.

And of course, I know there are many wonderful people who did nothing to deserve being cheated on and to them they have my earnest sympathy.

Right but try to tell that to the relationship fixers and they will say the first thing is you can’t blame the person you cheated on for your behavior. It all becomes about the cheating as if you have forfeited the relationship itself and your rights in it.

Correct. You can't blame somebody else for your active immoral choices and lying. You are the one that chose a poor coping mechanism. Sticking your D in someone else--(or receiving it from someone else) were active choices on your part.

The way you 'coped' with your problems was in error. There may be a host of things that went wrong, including many that were your fault but you fail to see to justify stepping out. Spouses turn cold for a reason--a lot has to do with the cheater who then blames the spouse. Who wants to be intimate with a critical a-hole?

Therapists jumping point is now--the decision to cheat 100% lies with the person that chose to do it. That is as it should be. They may have had unaddressed childhood trauma issues (cheating or alcoholic parents or divorce and inattention, etc.) or they may want variety sex, etc. They may have grown angry and critical and not seen how over-worked their spouse was. They may have purposely turned outward instead of inward. None of those things are the fault of the betrayed.

My spouse was a huge a-hole. I still didn't cheat. 99% of the time it is the a-holes that do the cheating. They caused a lot of the toxicity in the home environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So on behalf of a friend I am so annoyed. Her DH ran off with a subordinate at work (they all work at the same place); the subordinate was also married with kids (he has two with my friend). The two cheaters both divorced and are now together and it has been going on for a total of four years, on and off, with divorce just final 3m ago. Meanwhile cheaters are very happy, no one seems to know or care that they were affair partners, and my friend who was so sweet and lovely is bitter angry and devastated. Not the way things usually turn out if you listen to the people on this board who tell you the APs never wind up together or happy. It’s annoying.

Many do get their just desserts. Same thing happened to a relative, and they seemed happy for years. Then the AP ended up dying, and he tried to get back with his family. They didn't want anything to do with him, and he ended up dying 2 years later. May not happen right away, but often bad people don't end up well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like many examples above, this is why a lot of people really don't reflexively judge cheaters. I definitely come down on the side of "cheating is wrong" but I can also understand why people do it and I don't see the betrayed as always the victim so why would I expect "consequences"?

It's just as possible the person who was a jackass to their spouse in the marriage is getting their consequences by being cheated on.

And of course, I know there are many wonderful people who did nothing to deserve being cheated on and to them they have my earnest sympathy.

Right but try to tell that to the relationship fixers and they will say the first thing is you can’t blame the person you cheated on for your behavior. It all becomes about the cheating as if you have forfeited the relationship itself and your rights in it.

Correct. You can't blame somebody else for your active immoral choices and lying. You are the one that chose a poor coping mechanism. Sticking your D in someone else--(or receiving it from someone else) were active choices on your part.

The way you 'coped' with your problems was in error. There may be a host of things that went wrong, including many that were your fault but you fail to see to justify stepping out. Spouses turn cold for a reason--a lot has to do with the cheater who then blames the spouse. Who wants to be intimate with a critical a-hole?

Therapists jumping point is now--the decision to cheat 100% lies with the person that chose to do it. That is as it should be. They may have had unaddressed childhood trauma issues (cheating or alcoholic parents or divorce and inattention, etc.) or they may want variety sex, etc. They may have grown angry and critical and not seen how over-worked their spouse was. They may have purposely turned outward instead of inward. None of those things are the fault of the betrayed.

My spouse was a huge a-hole. I still didn't cheat. 99% of the time it is the a-holes that do the cheating. They caused a lot of the toxicity in the home environment.

Yes. To reconcile you can both agree their was a breakdown in the marriage at some point while actively acknowledging that cheating was wrong on your part. There is no other way forward. IF you truly believe you were justified or did nothing wrong, there is no room for reconciliation. People that truly love their spouses will not blame them for cheating. They will have the ability to see the hurt, harm and trauma it caused and it is a tough pill to swallow to see intense hurt on the face of your spouse that YOU caused. If that doesn't bother you, it's time to leave the marriage.

[Anonymous]

So much disordered thinking here. You can’t play the “karma” card. If the cheater deserves bad things, then you have to consider why the betrayed spouse is suffering. Is that “karma” for something she did?

First, no. Because karma is not about what happens to you in this life. Second, you truly do reap what you sow. Life isn’t black and white. Marriages don’t typically fail based on the behavior of one partner. I was in a physically and emotionally abusive marriage for ten years. I was the “victim”. At some point, I had to step back and ask myself why I allowed myself to be treated badly. I had to own my part in that disaster of a marriage. Yes, even with physical abuse.

Cheating sucks. So does lying, stealing, hurting others with your words, ….. We are all imperfect beings. Cheating is just one of many things we do to cause harm. It isn’t better or worse than the others. And contrary to what so many people believe, many cheaters go on to have happy, healthy lives. There is no karma boogie man stalking them. Life isn’t always fair. Self-actualized adults understand this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much disordered thinking here. You can’t play the “karma” card. If the cheater deserves bad things, then you have to consider why the betrayed spouse is suffering. Is that “karma” for something she did?

First, no. Because karma is not about what happens to you in this life. Second, you truly do reap what you sow. Life isn’t black and white. Marriages don’t typically fail based on the behavior of one partner. I was in a physically and emotionally abusive marriage for ten years. I was the “victim”. At some point, I had to step back and ask myself why I allowed myself to be treated badly. I had to own my part in that disaster of a marriage. Yes, even with physical abuse.

Cheating sucks. So does lying, stealing, hurting others with your words, ….. We are all imperfect beings. Cheating is just one of many things we do to cause harm. It isn’t better or worse than the others. And contrary to what so many people believe, many cheaters go on to have happy, healthy lives. There is no karma boogie man stalking them. Life isn’t always fair. Self-actualized adults understand this.

Just curious as someone who was also in an emotionally and physically abusive marriage, what you changed to no longer “allow” yourself to be treated that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much disordered thinking here. You can’t play the “karma” card. If the cheater deserves bad things, then you have to consider why the betrayed spouse is suffering. Is that “karma” for something she did?

First, no. Because karma is not about what happens to you in this life. Second, you truly do reap what you sow. Life isn’t black and white. Marriages don’t typically fail based on the behavior of one partner. I was in a physically and emotionally abusive marriage for ten years. I was the “victim”. At some point, I had to step back and ask myself why I allowed myself to be treated badly. I had to own my part in that disaster of a marriage. Yes, even with physical abuse.

Cheating sucks. So does lying, stealing, hurting others with your words, ….. We are all imperfect beings. Cheating is just one of many things we do to cause harm. It isn’t better or worse than the others. And contrary to what so many people believe, many cheaters go on to have happy, healthy lives. There is no karma boogie man stalking them. Life isn’t always fair. Self-actualized adults understand this.

Words don't give someone a disease that causes cancer or destroys someone's fertility. Words don't transmit HIV. They don't get someone outside of the marriage pregnant.

Some things do cause more harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much disordered thinking here. You can’t play the “karma” card. If the cheater deserves bad things, then you have to consider why the betrayed spouse is suffering. Is that “karma” for something she did?

First, no. Because karma is not about what happens to you in this life. Second, you truly do reap what you sow. Life isn’t black and white. Marriages don’t typically fail based on the behavior of one partner. I was in a physically and emotionally abusive marriage for ten years. I was the “victim”. At some point, I had to step back and ask myself why I allowed myself to be treated badly. I had to own my part in that disaster of a marriage. Yes, even with physical abuse.

Cheating sucks. So does lying, stealing, hurting others with your words, ….. We are all imperfect beings. Cheating is just one of many things we do to cause harm. It isn’t better or worse than the others. And contrary to what so many people believe, many cheaters go on to have happy, healthy lives. There is no karma boogie man stalking them. Life isn’t always fair. Self-actualized adults understand this.

Just curious as someone who was also in an emotionally and physically abusive marriage, what you changed to no longer “allow” yourself to be treated that way.

I’m so sorry you went through that. It took a long time. A lot of therapy. And a lot of work on myself. I have PTSD. That will likely never go away. But I did eventually remarry, something I swore I would never do. It just took a lot of work, my friend. Use affirmations every single day. -

I Am worthy
I Am enough
I Am strong
I Am perfectly created
I Am deserving of love
I Am healing
I Am healthy
I Am well
I Am peaceful
I Am filled with loving kindness
……..

I wrote them on post its. I repeated them in my head over and over again until I finally started to believe them.

[Anonymous]

I recently finished reading Esther Perel's "Mating in Captivity." What a great book. I found the following observation very interesting.

A woman can engage in serial monogamy: get married, get divorced, engage in a few intra-marital sexual liaisons, get married again and we're someho w all fine with that, but a man in a 20 plus year marriage who has a ONS is a cheater!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recently finished reading Esther Perel's "Mating in Captivity." What a great book. I found the following observation very interesting.

A woman can engage in serial monogamy: get married, get divorced, engage in a few intra-marital sexual liaisons, get married again and we're someho w all fine with that, but a man in a 20 plus year marriage who has a ONS is a cheater!

Why wouldn’t we be fine with that? One is infidelity. The other is not.