is nose-to-wall timeout too harsh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think facing the wall is ok. If you are actually saying his nose has to touch the wall the whole time, that's a bit over the top.

it kinda just morphed into that...one day he was sitting in the designated "spot" and started yelling his sister's name and trying to get her to engage, so DH told him to turn around and face the wall...he did for awhile, then turned back around and started yelling and being a goof and trying to get us to engage with him...so to get him to stop dh told him he needed to keep his nose touching the wall or the timer would start over yea, it seems kind of sadistic when I type it out! We do tend to take privileges away more often now, but I still do like timeouts for those times when he just needs to calm down and be removed from the situation...

It doesn’t sound like this is going in the right direction. I don’t think you are ever going to get to the point where making him hold his body in a certain way for a set amount of time will change the behavior the way you want it to. I think you need to take a completely different approach, keeping in mind what kinds of cause-and-effect concepts a child his age can understand.

Do you have time to be with him while you help calm him down? Hold him or talk to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think facing the wall is ok. If you are actually saying his nose has to touch the wall the whole time, that's a bit over the top.

it kinda just morphed into that...one day he was sitting in the designated "spot" and started yelling his sister's name and trying to get her to engage, so DH told him to turn around and face the wall...he did for awhile, then turned back around and started yelling and being a goof and trying to get us to engage with him...so to get him to stop dh told him he needed to keep his nose touching the wall or the timer would start over yea, it seems kind of sadistic when I type it out! We do tend to take privileges away more often now, but I still do like timeouts for those times when he just needs to calm down and be removed from the situation...

Does this actually calm him down or just stop the behavior you don’t want?

a little of both? He is our work in progress so everything always needs to be reinforced many times before it sinks in--he comes out of time out calmed down and somewhat "re-set" but it doesn't usually last for more than a day! Ped said we should just remain consistent and make our expectations clear (and make it clear -- through consequence and/or reminders -- when expectations are broken!) so we are working on it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds insane to me. I do timeouts, but they're in the kid's room and they can come out whenever they want as long as they are ready to be calm and kind. It's intended as an emotional reset, not some sort of ritualistic humiliation.

X100000000

all kids are different. my child with behavioral issues HATES to be alone - sending him to his room is impossible and the process of getting him there just makes the discipline process into a power struggle instead of a brief, swift consequence. and, in many cases, the kid actually needs a punishment instead of an "emotional reset." agree that the punishment should not be designed to be humiliating, but it has to be some kind of unpleasant to work. in general parents far over-estimate how unpleasant it needs to be. but OP's timeout facing the wall doesn't seem that off to me.

Kids don't need punishments. They really don't. You don't have to intentionally make life unpleasant just for the sake of making it more unpleasant in order to be a good parent. Your job as a parent isn't to coax a particular behavior out of a child, its to provide a good environment and lots of love so they can have a safe space to find their way in the world. This often means not letting them do something they would want to do, but that's just a natural consequence of life, not a punishment imposed by the parent.

I don't know how well I'm explaining this but lots of parenting books talk about discipline v. punishment.

YOUR kids don't. MY kid (and many) needs appropriate punishment to establish boundaries and learn appropriate behavior. But lol yeah, please tell all of us dealing with disruptive behavior that all we need is to "provide a good environment and lots of love." You think I don't love my kid? I love my kid enought that I got actual advice from an actually qualified child psychologist instead of reading "parenting books."

The child psychologist said that you need to punish your child? I am intrigued.

NP. Why are you intrigued? Reasonable consequences (primarily time out or loss of privilege) when expectations/rules are broken is recommended and supported by the major bodies of psychology and pediatrics like the AAP and APA. What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds insane to me. I do timeouts, but they're in the kid's room and they can come out whenever they want as long as they are ready to be calm and kind. It's intended as an emotional reset, not some sort of ritualistic humiliation.

X100000000

all kids are different. my child with behavioral issues HATES to be alone - sending him to his room is impossible and the process of getting him there just makes the discipline process into a power struggle instead of a brief, swift consequence. and, in many cases, the kid actually needs a punishment instead of an "emotional reset." agree that the punishment should not be designed to be humiliating, but it has to be some kind of unpleasant to work. in general parents far over-estimate how unpleasant it needs to be. but OP's timeout facing the wall doesn't seem that off to me.

Kids don't need punishments. They really don't. You don't have to intentionally make life unpleasant just for the sake of making it more unpleasant in order to be a good parent. Your job as a parent isn't to coax a particular behavior out of a child, its to provide a good environment and lots of love so they can have a safe space to find their way in the world. This often means not letting them do something they would want to do, but that's just a natural consequence of life, not a punishment imposed by the parent.

I don't know how well I'm explaining this but lots of parenting books talk about discipline v. punishment.

YOUR kids don't. MY kid (and many) needs appropriate punishment to establish boundaries and learn appropriate behavior. But lol yeah, please tell all of us dealing with disruptive behavior that all we need is to "provide a good environment and lots of love." You think I don't love my kid? I love my kid enought that I got actual advice from an actually qualified child psychologist instead of reading "parenting books."

The child psychologist said that you need to punish your child? I am intrigued.

DP. Switch discipline and consequences or the word punishment and yes, a child psychologist told us that.

We took away privileges, sent him to his room, took away some pretty big things. Including a summer trip with grandparents. A good environment and lots of love doesn't solve everything.

[Anonymous]

21:55 here. Punishment has it's place in parenting. I know the authors of the popular books don't think so, but a real life child psychologist disagrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds insane to me. I do timeouts, but they're in the kid's room and they can come out whenever they want as long as they are ready to be calm and kind. It's intended as an emotional reset, not some sort of ritualistic humiliation.

X100000000

all kids are different. my child with behavioral issues HATES to be alone - sending him to his room is impossible and the process of getting him there just makes the discipline process into a power struggle instead of a brief, swift consequence. and, in many cases, the kid actually needs a punishment instead of an "emotional reset." agree that the punishment should not be designed to be humiliating, but it has to be some kind of unpleasant to work. in general parents far over-estimate how unpleasant it needs to be. but OP's timeout facing the wall doesn't seem that off to me.

Kids don't need punishments. They really don't. You don't have to intentionally make life unpleasant just for the sake of making it more unpleasant in order to be a good parent. Your job as a parent isn't to coax a particular behavior out of a child, its to provide a good environment and lots of love so they can have a safe space to find their way in the world. This often means not letting them do something they would want to do, but that's just a natural consequence of life, not a punishment imposed by the parent.

I don't know how well I'm explaining this but lots of parenting books talk about discipline v. punishment.

YOUR kids don't. MY kid (and many) needs appropriate punishment to establish boundaries and learn appropriate behavior. But lol yeah, please tell all of us dealing with disruptive behavior that all we need is to "provide a good environment and lots of love." You think I don't love my kid? I love my kid enought that I got actual advice from an actually qualified child psychologist instead of reading "parenting books."

The child psychologist said that you need to punish your child? I am intrigued.

DP. Switch discipline and consequences or the word punishment and yes, a child psychologist told us that.

We took away privileges, sent him to his room, took away some pretty big things. Including a summer trip with grandparents. A good environment and lots of love doesn't solve everything.

Well setting boundaries and not letting your kids do whatever the hell they feel like it is part of providing your kids a good environment and lots of love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds insane to me. I do timeouts, but they're in the kid's room and they can come out whenever they want as long as they are ready to be calm and kind. It's intended as an emotional reset, not some sort of ritualistic humiliation.

X100000000

all kids are different. my child with behavioral issues HATES to be alone - sending him to his room is impossible and the process of getting him there just makes the discipline process into a power struggle instead of a brief, swift consequence. and, in many cases, the kid actually needs a punishment instead of an "emotional reset." agree that the punishment should not be designed to be humiliating, but it has to be some kind of unpleasant to work. in general parents far over-estimate how unpleasant it needs to be. but OP's timeout facing the wall doesn't seem that off to me.

Kids don't need punishments. They really don't. You don't have to intentionally make life unpleasant just for the sake of making it more unpleasant in order to be a good parent. Your job as a parent isn't to coax a particular behavior out of a child, its to provide a good environment and lots of love so they can have a safe space to find their way in the world. This often means not letting them do something they would want to do, but that's just a natural consequence of life, not a punishment imposed by the parent.

I don't know how well I'm explaining this but lots of parenting books talk about discipline v. punishment.

YOUR kids don't. MY kid (and many) needs appropriate punishment to establish boundaries and learn appropriate behavior. But lol yeah, please tell all of us dealing with disruptive behavior that all we need is to "provide a good environment and lots of love." You think I don't love my kid? I love my kid enought that I got actual advice from an actually qualified child psychologist instead of reading "parenting books."

The child psychologist said that you need to punish your child? I am intrigued.

DP. Switch discipline and consequences or the word punishment and yes, a child psychologist told us that.

We took away privileges, sent him to his room, took away some pretty big things. Including a summer trip with grandparents. A good environment and lots of love doesn't solve everything.

Taking away a summer trip makes zero sense. And, what ever you are doing is wrong as it wasn't working and you need to change everyone to make it work better for that child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds insane to me. I do timeouts, but they're in the kid's room and they can come out whenever they want as long as they are ready to be calm and kind. It's intended as an emotional reset, not some sort of ritualistic humiliation.

X100000000

all kids are different. my child with behavioral issues HATES to be alone - sending him to his room is impossible and the process of getting him there just makes the discipline process into a power struggle instead of a brief, swift consequence. and, in many cases, the kid actually needs a punishment instead of an "emotional reset." agree that the punishment should not be designed to be humiliating, but it has to be some kind of unpleasant to work. in general parents far over-estimate how unpleasant it needs to be. but OP's timeout facing the wall doesn't seem that off to me.

Kids don't need punishments. They really don't. You don't have to intentionally make life unpleasant just for the sake of making it more unpleasant in order to be a good parent. Your job as a parent isn't to coax a particular behavior out of a child, its to provide a good environment and lots of love so they can have a safe space to find their way in the world. This often means not letting them do something they would want to do, but that's just a natural consequence of life, not a punishment imposed by the parent.

I don't know how well I'm explaining this but lots of parenting books talk about discipline v. punishment.

YOUR kids don't. MY kid (and many) needs appropriate punishment to establish boundaries and learn appropriate behavior. But lol yeah, please tell all of us dealing with disruptive behavior that all we need is to "provide a good environment and lots of love." You think I don't love my kid? I love my kid enought that I got actual advice from an actually qualified child psychologist instead of reading "parenting books."

The child psychologist said that you need to punish your child? I am intrigued.

NP. Why are you intrigued? Reasonable consequences (primarily time out or loss of privilege) when expectations/rules are broken is recommended and supported by the major bodies of psychology and pediatrics like the AAP and APA. What am I missing?

Well maybe this is getting into semantics but everything I have read says you want to aim for discipline rather than punishment. Here is this small little article from the AAP that i think explains the difference pretty well:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2018/11/05/disciplinepp110518

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:55 here. Punishment has it's place in parenting. I know the authors of the popular books don't think so, but a real life child psychologist disagrees.

Well real life pediatric associations disagree so I guess we are at an impasse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This makes me feel uncomfortable and I wouldn't do it to my kids.

+1, this is so sad and abusive.

[Anonymous]

You’re talking about a 5 year old. Your actions are plainly abusive.

[Anonymous]

Time outs and shame based discipline are no longer considered effective.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like sister is triggering him and you are in denial

[Anonymous]

We did this and it stopped working so now we just glue their noses to the wall. Comes right off with a little acetone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This makes me feel uncomfortable and I wouldn't do it to my kids.

+1, this is so sad and abusive.

Oh FFS Abusive? It's not something I would do, and I think OP has gotten some good suggestions for how she can avoid this, but c'mon.