S/o outsourcing cleaning as a relationship fix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think implied in this conversation, but not expressly stated, is the belief that somehow, the wife can force the husband to do more if only she insists more, using the right words and logic.

But the wife can’t do that. She cannot make him do anything, full stop. A cleaning service is accepting it as true (which it is).

A husband who genuinely loves his wife and respects her as a person would change his ways after being shown how impossible it is for her to do everything (be a working mom and a SAHM who does 90% of child and house related tasks).

Stopping looking at it this way saved my marriage.

Agreed. This is not how men think at ALL.

I just don’t get why many men just don’t think they should have to clean. They will let their wife do the majority of it, and if she complains they will hire a cleaning service so other women can do it.

DP. I'm a woman and I don't think I have to clean. What is the point of working hard at my actual job if I can't use some of that money to avoid something I loathe?

+1

+2

You are conflating a bunch of things, OP.

Yes this advice is annoying to people who can't afford a biweekly cleaner. But does that apply to you?

If you need this extreme level of cleanliness (cleaning a toilet that often etc) that's just on you.

Agree with other PPs that this makes the total amount of cleaning lower. The deep cleaning, mopping the floors instead of just vacuuming, dusting all over, etc. There are still daily tasks like wiping counters, dishes, laundry etc, and those should be split between spouses and older kids.

Basically this advice makes sense for a lot of couples. Hence it is frequently given!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't do your list daily. M-F I do about a load of laundry per day and kids fold if they want TV time, we clean the kitchen after dinner together, and run the dishwasher before bed. DH unloads it in the morning when he gets up. We have cleaners every other week so on the weeks without we do the floors and bathrooms on the weekend, and again, the kids have to help.

If your kids are old enough to have pubes not only can they clean their own bathroom, but they can make their own bed and help with those other chores. You are doing them a disservice for when they move out and suddenly realize that beds do not make themselves, and bathrooms need to be cleaned.

Yep. But OP, are you seriously have guests over every few days? That too, guests who would use the kids' bathroom? You just sound very OCD to me.

[Anonymous]

A husband who genuinely loves his wife and respects her as a person would change his ways after being shown how impossible it is for her to do everything (be a working mom and a SAHM who does 90% of child and house related tasks).

No, because he doesn't agree that ALL of it needs to be done
And certainly not to his wife's standards. And probably most of it, not at all.
That includes schlepping the kids' around to activities.

He may not express this, or even think about it much, but likely that's how he's wired

And who is to say the more anal person should get their way? Just to keep them happy? No. No reason to think their way of life is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have cleaning people come on Mondays and Thursdays. We rinse off dishes and silverware and put them in the dishwasher and run/empty it. If something spills we clean it up. We're not messy people though so it's not as if there are crumbs on the floor after each meal.

I do one load of laundry a week, and so does DH. The cleaning people do all linens and the nanny does the kids' clothes. We would vacuum if we saw visible dirt but otherwise think twice a week is fine.

We generally have groceries delivered when the nanny is there, so that's how groceries are put away. Dh or I sort mail/pay bills once a week. But we autopay and streamline as much as we possibly can.

That's great but most of us aren't in a position to have a cleaning service come twice a month, let alone twice a week. So the house has dirt, and we have to manage dealing (or not) with it somehow.

But good for you for being in a position to have that much help. Your house must look beautiful!

It’s cheaper than quitting your job or working part time to do it yourself, and much cheaper than getting divorced and maintaining two households!

... which is the kind of thing you say when you actually do have the money to get cleaners twice a week, which we don't. so, again, good for you!

Thanks?
DP. But my house doesn’t look beautiful. We don’t buy new things. Furniture is mostly used or hand me downs covered in slip covers. We haven’t “updated” or even decorated our home much outside of fresh flowers.
But everything smells nice, and it’s clean, and we get to spend our free time together .
I’m sorry you are in a bad financial spot right now. It sounds like things are really tough, and I hope that things start looking up for you. I am aware that not everyone can afford this kind of help, but it really isn’t just for the 1%. If you hire an individual, rather than going through a company, it’s cheaper and you can be sure that your employee is treated fairly. Even my housekeeper had her own housekeeper when her kids were little .

[Anonymous]

Something we've learned is that even if you have a partner who is bad at cleaning or hates doing it (which in our case, like most cases, is my DH), you can still technically both contribute more equally, if not perfectly equally, simply by being respectful, mature people. I do the bulk of the cleaning that is purposeful and planned, as in "I'm going to go clean the bathrooms now" and I get out cleaning materials and scrub and wipe things down and actually "clean". But my DH is a grown up and does a ton of stuff that makes it easier for me to be the person who handles the bulk of the cleaning, including:

- keeping his stuff (paperwork, phone and iPad, reading material, personal mail, etc.) organized and tidy
- cleaning up after himself and after our kid, by putting dishes in the dishwasher, wiping down counters and tables when done using them, etc.
- doing the laundry at least half the time if not more, including doing our kids laundry
- doing grocery shopping and keeping an eye on the fridge and pantry and knowing what we have and need
- doing dishes after he cooks or after we eat, at least half the time
- helping me with cleaning periodically if it seems like I need it, like helping me make a bed if he walks in the room and I'm doing it, etc.

None of this stuff is "cleaning" in the sense that none of it could be outsourced to a cleaning service. It's more like basic maintenance and taking responsibility for your immediate surroundings plus being respectful of the people you live with. I still do the bulk of the cleaning. But it doesn't cause problems most of the time because DH does all of the above. And if your DH doesn't do these things, outsourcing the cleaning will not solve your problem.

It's really about being a grown up, taking care of yourself, and not treating your spouse like your mother. We can't afford weekly cleaners, and even if we could I would probably still do it because I truly don't mind, but it's not a huge problem because my husband behaves like an adult in his 40s with a mortgage and a child, not like a 9 year old.

[Anonymous]

NP but I really appreciate the comments here. I have learned a lot. ( wife here)

[Anonymous]

If your kids are post pubescent, then they are absolutely old enough to clean their bathroom. I'm of the opinion that all able bodied persons should clean up after themselves, including husband and kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't do your list daily. M-F I do about a load of laundry per day and kids fold if they want TV time, we clean the kitchen after dinner together, and run the dishwasher before bed. DH unloads it in the morning when he gets up. We have cleaners every other week so on the weeks without we do the floors and bathrooms on the weekend, and again, the kids have to help.

If your kids are old enough to have pubes not only can they clean their own bathroom, but they can make their own bed and help with those other chores. You are doing them a disservice for when they move out and suddenly realize that beds do not make themselves, and bathrooms need to be cleaned.

Yep. But OP, are you seriously have guests over every few days? That too, guests who would use the kids' bathroom? You just sound very OCD to me.

I am one of the PPs - and we don't have guests over every few days. But if I just leave my husband's bathroom - which is always the guest bathroom - for the cleaners once a month, or until we have guests, then it gets so f**king disgusting that I DO want to get a divorce. It's not that I need it SO clean - it's that if you don't do regular cleaning, then it gets SO disgusting. So it's either regular cleaning, or it's a foul cesspool - and I've picked regular cleaning, as the better of those alternatives. Honestly, now that I go in there and clean it myself every few days instead of waiting for him to do it, or for the cleaners to come back, it's not SO awful every time.

OP might be in a similar position. Not enough $ to have cleaners coming every week or multiple times every week. Stuck, then, with the options of doing it herself a lot, or having a bathroom that spirals out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have cleaning people come on Mondays and Thursdays. We rinse off dishes and silverware and put them in the dishwasher and run/empty it. If something spills we clean it up. We're not messy people though so it's not as if there are crumbs on the floor after each meal.

I do one load of laundry a week, and so does DH. The cleaning people do all linens and the nanny does the kids' clothes. We would vacuum if we saw visible dirt but otherwise think twice a week is fine.

We generally have groceries delivered when the nanny is there, so that's how groceries are put away. Dh or I sort mail/pay bills once a week. But we autopay and streamline as much as we possibly can.

That's great but most of us aren't in a position to have a cleaning service come twice a month, let alone twice a week. So the house has dirt, and we have to manage dealing (or not) with it somehow.

But good for you for being in a position to have that much help. Your house must look beautiful!

It’s cheaper than quitting your job or working part time to do it yourself, and much cheaper than getting divorced and maintaining two households!

... which is the kind of thing you say when you actually do have the money to get cleaners twice a week, which we don't. so, again, good for you!

Thanks?
DP. But my house doesn’t look beautiful. We don’t buy new things. Furniture is mostly used or hand me downs covered in slip covers. We haven’t “updated” or even decorated our home much outside of fresh flowers.
But everything smells nice, and it’s clean, and we get to spend our free time together .
I’m sorry you are in a bad financial spot right now. It sounds like things are really tough, and I hope that things start looking up for you. I am aware that not everyone can afford this kind of help, but it really isn’t just for the 1%. If you hire an individual, rather than going through a company, it’s cheaper and you can be sure that your employee is treated fairly. Even my housekeeper had her own housekeeper when her kids were little .

There's a big gulf between "bed financial spot" and having an extra $1200 a month for cleaners!

Jesus Christ, DCUM - get a grip on reality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't do your list daily. M-F I do about a load of laundry per day and kids fold if they want TV time, we clean the kitchen after dinner together, and run the dishwasher before bed. DH unloads it in the morning when he gets up. We have cleaners every other week so on the weeks without we do the floors and bathrooms on the weekend, and again, the kids have to help.

If your kids are old enough to have pubes not only can they clean their own bathroom, but they can make their own bed and help with those other chores. You are doing them a disservice for when they move out and suddenly realize that beds do not make themselves, and bathrooms need to be cleaned.

Yep. But OP, are you seriously have guests over every few days? That too, guests who would use the kids' bathroom? You just sound very OCD to me.

I am one of the PPs - and we don't have guests over every few days. But if I just leave my husband's bathroom - which is always the guest bathroom - for the cleaners once a month, or until we have guests, then it gets so f**king disgusting that I DO want to get a divorce. It's not that I need it SO clean - it's that if you don't do regular cleaning, then it gets SO disgusting. So it's either regular cleaning, or it's a foul cesspool - and I've picked regular cleaning, as the better of those alternatives. Honestly, now that I go in there and clean it myself every few days instead of waiting for him to do it, or for the cleaners to come back, it's not SO awful every time.

OP might be in a similar position. Not enough $ to have cleaners coming every week or multiple times every week. Stuck, then, with the options of doing it herself a lot, or having a bathroom that spirals out of hand.

This is a hugely important point. My DH's problem with cleaning is that he has it built up in his head as something that takes forever and is very hard. That's because as a bachelor, he very rarely cleaned, so when he did, it took forever and was very hard. It is a PITA to get rid of tons of mold in mildew in your bathroom, to clean a rug that hasn't been vacuumed in months, to deal with the grease and dust in a kitchen where you never wipe down surfaces. You have made the problem maximally difficult.

Most house cleaners don't even do a particularly good job. The advantage in having the cleaners come is that they do it regularly. Just clean regularly and it really doesn't take much time. Cleaning something you recently cleaned can take a few minutes. I can clean our guest bathroom in 5 minutes if we suddenly have company coming, because I spend 5-10 minutes cleaning it every week. But I've literally never spent more time than that in there because I don't have to.

A lot of people have partners whose main problem is time management and procrastination, and if they could deal with that, they'd have an easier time with all aspects of their relationship, not just division of labor around cleaning. Putting stuff off is not a good way to approach most things.

[Anonymous]

As with so many things on this website, so many different things are going on with this advice and the responses.

1) There are vast differences in people's acceptable levels of clean. I have biweekly cleaners and can't imagine touching a bathroom between them. In fact, due to a scheduling error we just had to skip a cleaning and I still am not cleaning the bathroom. And I don't make my bed everyday. I'm sure my house would be intolerable to many of you

2) My husband is fully aware and cognizant of the mental load and he actively tries to take the burden off of me. He doesn't tell me my standards are too high (because they legitimately are not, perhaps they are too low!) and he works to help. He does all the laundry and really works to be someone who like, knows if the kids need more diapers at daycare or if my older kid needs to bring a swimsuit tomorrow for camp. that like, in the weeds stuff, he pays attention! It makes me feel loved and means when I'm cleaning the whole kitchen and vacuuming every night I don't feel resentful, because he's helping!

3) Those biweekly cleaners take the edge off needing to deep clean and it makes BOTH of us happy to have them. When my second child starts K next September, I think we will move them to weekly. It's expensive, but we have busy lives and don't like cleaning or arguing with each other.

So like, reducing the burden of labor helps couples not resent each other. Loving one another and actively trying to reduce each other's burdens makes couples not resent each other. Paying for cleaners when you have a completely inconsiderate husband is, in fact, a bandaid to a larger problem. But if its the only thing wrong then I'm not sure its a terrible solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't do your list daily. M-F I do about a load of laundry per day and kids fold if they want TV time, we clean the kitchen after dinner together, and run the dishwasher before bed. DH unloads it in the morning when he gets up. We have cleaners every other week so on the weeks without we do the floors and bathrooms on the weekend, and again, the kids have to help.

If your kids are old enough to have pubes not only can they clean their own bathroom, but they can make their own bed and help with those other chores. You are doing them a disservice for when they move out and suddenly realize that beds do not make themselves, and bathrooms need to be cleaned.

Yep. But OP, are you seriously have guests over every few days? That too, guests who would use the kids' bathroom? You just sound very OCD to me.

I am one of the PPs - and we don't have guests over every few days. But if I just leave my husband's bathroom - which is always the guest bathroom - for the cleaners once a month, or until we have guests, then it gets so f**king disgusting that I DO want to get a divorce. It's not that I need it SO clean - it's that if you don't do regular cleaning, then it gets SO disgusting. So it's either regular cleaning, or it's a foul cesspool - and I've picked regular cleaning, as the better of those alternatives. Honestly, now that I go in there and clean it myself every few days instead of waiting for him to do it, or for the cleaners to come back, it's not SO awful every time.

OP might be in a similar position. Not enough $ to have cleaners coming every week or multiple times every week. Stuck, then, with the options of doing it herself a lot, or having a bathroom that spirals out of hand.

This is a hugely important point. My DH's problem with cleaning is that he has it built up in his head as something that takes forever and is very hard. That's because as a bachelor, he very rarely cleaned, so when he did, it took forever and was very hard. It is a PITA to get rid of tons of mold in mildew in your bathroom, to clean a rug that hasn't been vacuumed in months, to deal with the grease and dust in a kitchen where you never wipe down surfaces. You have made the problem maximally difficult.

Most house cleaners don't even do a particularly good job. The advantage in having the cleaners come is that they do it regularly. Just clean regularly and it really doesn't take much time. Cleaning something you recently cleaned can take a few minutes. I can clean our guest bathroom in 5 minutes if we suddenly have company coming, because I spend 5-10 minutes cleaning it every week. But I've literally never spent more time than that in there because I don't have to.

A lot of people have partners whose main problem is time management and procrastination, and if they could deal with that, they'd have an easier time with all aspects of their relationship, not just division of labor around cleaning. Putting stuff off is not a good way to approach most things.

I am the PP - and yep, totally. My husband takes hours when he finally sets to cleaning a bathroom. And even then somehow the floor is still covered in pee at the end of that ridiculous amount of labor.

We used to share a bathroom and fought constantly. Then we bought a house where we have our own bathrooms, and I just watched his devolve into filth between professional cleanings. I have just decided that instead of fighting, instead of whatever else it takes, it's just easier for me to clean it and maintain the cleanliness.

It helps - a lot - that he does more than his fair share of the work around the house. He does all the dishes. He takes care of all the grocery shopping. He does most of the cooking. I don't feel like I'm stuck doing everything in the house. I just feel like, in the scheme of things, I'd rather take care of this than try to come up with another way to keep his bathroom from turning into an indoor sewer.

And just to address an obvious point: yes of course I'd rather have cleaners come twice a week. I'd also like to own a second home, and a pony. We're just not in that position at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have cleaning people come on Mondays and Thursdays. We rinse off dishes and silverware and put them in the dishwasher and run/empty it. If something spills we clean it up. We're not messy people though so it's not as if there are crumbs on the floor after each meal.

I do one load of laundry a week, and so does DH. The cleaning people do all linens and the nanny does the kids' clothes. We would vacuum if we saw visible dirt but otherwise think twice a week is fine.

We generally have groceries delivered when the nanny is there, so that's how groceries are put away. Dh or I sort mail/pay bills once a week. But we autopay and streamline as much as we possibly can.

That's great but most of us aren't in a position to have a cleaning service come twice a month, let alone twice a week. So the house has dirt, and we have to manage dealing (or not) with it somehow.

But good for you for being in a position to have that much help. Your house must look beautiful!

It’s cheaper than quitting your job or working part time to do it yourself, and much cheaper than getting divorced and maintaining two households!

... which is the kind of thing you say when you actually do have the money to get cleaners twice a week, which we don't. so, again, good for you!

Thanks?
DP. But my house doesn’t look beautiful. We don’t buy new things. Furniture is mostly used or hand me downs covered in slip covers. We haven’t “updated” or even decorated our home much outside of fresh flowers.
But everything smells nice, and it’s clean, and we get to spend our free time together .
I’m sorry you are in a bad financial spot right now. It sounds like things are really tough, and I hope that things start looking up for you. I am aware that not everyone can afford this kind of help, but it really isn’t just for the 1%. If you hire an individual, rather than going through a company, it’s cheaper and you can be sure that your employee is treated fairly. Even my housekeeper had her own housekeeper when her kids were little .

There's a big gulf between "bed financial spot" and having an extra $1200 a month for cleaners!

Jesus Christ, DCUM - get a grip on reality

No. You get a grip on reality. She said that she didn’t have enough for monthly cleaners. If you can’t come up with an extra $100/month, then you are in a tough financial spot. I’ve lived that way. It’s a hard way to live. You are always anxious that something is going to happen. Even a co-pay to go to the pediatrician feels like a lot. I remember being in tears when I realized that you have to get different flow nipples on bottles every couple of months. It’s not an easy way to live, and I’m sorry she is going through that right now.

[Anonymous]

Ok seriously people I think the bigger problem being illuminated in this thread is that your bathrooms become 'covered in pee' on a regular basis.

My housecleaners come biweekly and I have three children and NONE of my bathrooms are ever left 'covered in pee'. If someone pees on the floor that is like, spilling milk. You clean it up then and there.

[Anonymous]

How about buying a cleaning robot and let DH control it to sweep and mop the floor?