S/o outsourcing cleaning as a relationship fix

[Anonymous]

I see this mentioned in EVERY thread where the woman is complaining about having to do more house chores than her husband. We all know this is reality for many couples but the proposed solution is always to outsource cleaning rather than force the DH to do his fair share. I have some practical/logistical issues with this as an actual solution.

First, most people don’t have the extra money for weekly cleaning or even e/o week. But even if you do, there are still chores that need to be done EVERY day. Dishes, laundry, making the beds, sweeping/vacuuming highly used areas (kitchens, living rooms, entry ways), sorting and filing mail, putting groceries away, etc. Now that my kids are older, I find that I have to clean the bathrooms every few days or they get seriously gross from the pubic hair they inadvertently leave on the floor, dirt or soap rings in the bathtub, pee stains on the toilet rim, etc. etc. I would be embarrassed for a guest to use their bathroom and see it so dirty. So I have to clean it every two days or so.

Who is doing those things? Are you just letting it pile up for the housekeeper once a week? Do most people just live in filth rather than make the husband help clean up after the household he is part of?

I seriously do not understand how anything short of hiring a daily cleaner (which obviously most people cannot afford) would fix the problem where the DH does no cleaning. Make this make sense, lol.

[Anonymous]

I think there’s a happy medium between “living in filth” and obsessively cleaning things every 1-2 days. I know if I cleaned the whole house over the course of a week I wouldn’t have time to actually hold down a job much less enjoy myself a little. Relax a little OP.

[Anonymous]

The only thing done daily in my house from your daily list is the dishes, and other than that, laundry (sent out) mail management and putting away groceries, our weekly cleaning service does it for $120/week.

And, I should think obviously, this does not mean we are “living in filth.”

[Anonymous]

I agree. But again people are not dumb, the reason they went to expensive route is because holding DH accountable is much more expensive or difficult.

We lost our after school sitter bc she wanted to officially retire, and DH hasn’t done a single 3pm pick up. While it is possible for me to manage, think about the long term productivity impact on my job and promotion/earning potential.

And this isn’t something we could have discussed before having kids (heck we couldn’t even see it coming when the kids were little).

[Anonymous]

If kids have pubes, they’re old enough to clean their own bathroom. Just sayin’.

But yea, I feel ya. Even with outsourcing, just knowing that my partner doesn’t care enough about me to pitch in kinda kills my interest in them. It’s not about chores, it’s about showing up for your partner and also valuing the things that they value.

I’m not a man, but I imagine it’s the difference between having a wife who finally gives in and lays there when you nag for duty sex, vs a wife who may not have the same level of desire as you, but recognizes how important sex is to you and puts in the effort to make it pleasureable and enjoy it, too.

It’s like that scene from The Break Up: “I don’t want you to go the dishes, I want you to *want* to do the dishes”.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you OP and I hate this suggestion. Not just because not everyone can afford cleaners.

So much of the problem is that most men are not raised to clean well. My DH simply did not know how to clean when I met him. He could do dishes and the laundry, but he doesn't really know how to clean a house on a basic level. He doesn't know what cleaning solutions you need for different surfaces, or whether you scrub or wipe something down. He is inefficient when he cleans. His parents did not make him or his brother clean when they were growing up beyond straightening up their rooms and cleaning the kitchen after dinner. And in his case, this 100% a gender thing (though that's there too) -- truthfully no one in his family is that good at cleaning.

But the other problem is that men get taught that being dirty and gross is masculine. Like they are taught to associate cleanliness with femininity and to want to avoid feminine things. It is truly one of the most basic behaviors of toxic masculinity. I've discussed it with my DH and he knows he has this kind of visceral reaction to cleaning that comes from messed up ideas he was taught about gender. And not just from his parents. Society in general has this idea that boys can and should be dirty, that a bachelor's house or a frat house is going to be gross and that's not only okay but kind of funny and good. There is not really any social consequence for men if they are perceived as dirty, whereas a young woman who is dirty and unkempt is considered abnormal and might even be shunned.

When families just outsource cleaning instead of teaching all of their children how to clean and care for their homes and their bodies, it doesn't change any of this. Especially because the people coming to clean their homes are almost universally women (and often women of color and/or immigrants, which is not a dynamic we can ignore) so it just reinforces the idea that cleaning is something women do. And worse, it reinforces the idea that cleaning is something that "other" women, who have less money and are less privileged, do.

We are only making it worse. Our husbands have to learn to clean, and we have to hold them accountable for it, and we all have to teach our kids to do it.

[Anonymous]

Much of your list really doesn’t have to be done every day. Unmade beds are not a crime (are in fact more hygienic) groceries aren’t delivered daily, mail can sit on a shelf for a couple days without producing radioactivity, and perhaps my husband and I are outliers but our floors are not littered with pubes...

The point of outsourcing cleaning help and why I always suggest it has nothing to do with giving men an out on doing their half, it’s on making the whole smaller so both partners have less on their plate. We have finite time, we both work full time jobs, time with each other and our daughter is inherently of greater value than time scrubbing a toilet. It is also about avoiding sources of conflict. I have a daughter, and if she has no memories of her parents fighting over who takes out the trash, that’s a win in my book. I also consider it a win if she is raised without the Insane and deeply sexist idea that cleaning a house is a better use of her time than reading a book, taking a walk, connecting with her spouse and child/ren etc.

I was raised by someone who thought the house had to be ready for inspection at a moments notice. Every dish washed within ten minutes of a meal being finished. She used to vacuum on the way out the door to vacation. My dad begged her to have a daily maid and she refused. How many memories do you want your kids to have of you mopping vs. playing with them?

[Anonymous]

It doesn’t help entirely. It just reduces part of the overwhelming burden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Much of your list really doesn’t have to be done every day. Unmade beds are not a crime (are in fact more hygienic) groceries aren’t delivered daily, mail can sit on a shelf for a couple days without producing radioactivity, and perhaps my husband and I are outliers but our floors are not littered with pubes...

The point of outsourcing cleaning help and why I always suggest it has nothing to do with giving men an out on doing their half, it’s on making the whole smaller so both partners have less on their plate. We have finite time, we both work full time jobs, time with each other and our daughter is inherently of greater value than time scrubbing a toilet. It is also about avoiding sources of conflict. I have a daughter, and if she has no memories of her parents fighting over who takes out the trash, that’s a win in my book. I also consider it a win if she is raised without the Insane and deeply sexist idea that cleaning a house is a better use of her time than reading a book, taking a walk, connecting with her spouse and child/ren etc.

I was raised by someone who thought the house had to be ready for inspection at a moments notice. Every dish washed within ten minutes of a meal being finished. She used to vacuum on the way out the door to vacation. My dad begged her to have a daily maid and she refused. How many memories do you want your kids to have of you mopping vs. playing with them?

boy, it sure is NICE for my DH to have only fun memories with DS, meanwhile I am at home doing all the chores he literally refuses to do. (Like - actually literally says he won’t ever do.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Much of your list really doesn’t have to be done every day. Unmade beds are not a crime (are in fact more hygienic) groceries aren’t delivered daily, mail can sit on a shelf for a couple days without producing radioactivity, and perhaps my husband and I are outliers but our floors are not littered with pubes...

The point of outsourcing cleaning help and why I always suggest it has nothing to do with giving men an out on doing their half, it’s on making the whole smaller so both partners have less on their plate. We have finite time, we both work full time jobs, time with each other and our daughter is inherently of greater value than time scrubbing a toilet. It is also about avoiding sources of conflict. I have a daughter, and if she has no memories of her parents fighting over who takes out the trash, that’s a win in my book. I also consider it a win if she is raised without the Insane and deeply sexist idea that cleaning a house is a better use of her time than reading a book, taking a walk, connecting with her spouse and child/ren etc.

I was raised by someone who thought the house had to be ready for inspection at a moments notice. Every dish washed within ten minutes of a meal being finished. She used to vacuum on the way out the door to vacation. My dad begged her to have a daily maid and she refused. How many memories do you want your kids to have of you mopping vs. playing with them?

boy, it sure is NICE for my DH to have only fun memories with DS, meanwhile I am at home doing all the chores he literally refuses to do. (Like - actually literally says he won’t ever do.)

So what would he say if you said you won’t do it either? Does he think no one needs to do the chores in question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Much of your list really doesn’t have to be done every day. Unmade beds are not a crime (are in fact more hygienic) groceries aren’t delivered daily, mail can sit on a shelf for a couple days without producing radioactivity, and perhaps my husband and I are outliers but our floors are not littered with pubes...

The point of outsourcing cleaning help and why I always suggest it has nothing to do with giving men an out on doing their half, it’s on making the whole smaller so both partners have less on their plate. We have finite time, we both work full time jobs, time with each other and our daughter is inherently of greater value than time scrubbing a toilet. It is also about avoiding sources of conflict. I have a daughter, and if she has no memories of her parents fighting over who takes out the trash, that’s a win in my book. I also consider it a win if she is raised without the Insane and deeply sexist idea that cleaning a house is a better use of her time than reading a book, taking a walk, connecting with her spouse and child/ren etc.

I was raised by someone who thought the house had to be ready for inspection at a moments notice. Every dish washed within ten minutes of a meal being finished. She used to vacuum on the way out the door to vacation. My dad begged her to have a daily maid and she refused. How many memories do you want your kids to have of you mopping vs. playing with them?

boy, it sure is NICE for my DH to have only fun memories with DS, meanwhile I am at home doing all the chores he literally refuses to do. (Like - actually literally says he won’t ever do.)

You are compounding the problem. Your son will think housekeeping is something only women do and he will “refuse” as well. If your son thinks housekeeping is something part of the household budget you will at least have improved on his father (who sounds like a real winner...)

[Anonymous]

My feeling about it is this. I love my spouse and I love our life together. Outsourcing the cleaning does two things. It gets rid of conflict and it improves quality of life because neither of us likes to do it. Yes there are things to be done, but when the big stuff is out of the equation there is a lot less on your plate and it’s not as important to keep score.

I guess some people will divorce over cleaning of cleaning can be the straw that breaks the camels back. And I’m sure for some the cost of outsourcing is a deterrent. But living in conflict, therapy and divorce are so much more expensive.

[Anonymous]

I don't do your list daily. M-F I do about a load of laundry per day and kids fold if they want TV time, we clean the kitchen after dinner together, and run the dishwasher before bed. DH unloads it in the morning when he gets up. We have cleaners every other week so on the weeks without we do the floors and bathrooms on the weekend, and again, the kids have to help.

If your kids are old enough to have pubes not only can they clean their own bathroom, but they can make their own bed and help with those other chores. You are doing them a disservice for when they move out and suddenly realize that beds do not make themselves, and bathrooms need to be cleaned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My feeling about it is this. I love my spouse and I love our life together. Outsourcing the cleaning does two things. It gets rid of conflict and it improves quality of life because neither of us likes to do it. Yes there are things to be done, but when the big stuff is out of the equation there is a lot less on your plate and it’s not as important to keep score.

I guess some people will divorce over cleaning of cleaning can be the straw that breaks the camels back. And I’m sure for some the cost of outsourcing is a deterrent. But living in conflict, therapy and divorce are so much more expensive.

+1

[Anonymous]

My husband and I got an every other week cleaning service from the first days of marriage — long before kids. But my husband does more cleaning than me and is good at it. Honestly, these men that do nothing are assholes. Already this weekend, my husband has done our laundry, helped my kid unload the dishwasher, helped me load it and then swept the floors.

That said, I do way more of the mental burden. Like, he would never think ahead to make sure there was food around. If I die, everyone will be fine — but the food won’t be as healthy. He won’t sign up for summer camp until the last minute so they won’t get first choice and my kids won’t have play dates or maybe dance classes. But they will all be happy and taken care of.