Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

You think it’s a sign that someone is good with money if they hire people to wipe up their dinner crumbs?!

[Anonymous]

You make 750k and you are expecting to live like you make 300k, OP. High paying jobs are high paying (usually) for a reason. They are hard. They are stressful. They compete with everything else for a starring role in your life. Also, you are terrible with money and have major major MAJOR lifestyle creep if you can’t even consider staying home or taking a more enjoyable job and feel like you NEED private school and a $2 million house and luxury cars and the most expensive camp etc. The problem is you, OP. There is no fix other than to fix yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

+1. OP - I would be outsourcing everything if I were you. Personal chef, someone to run all the errands, etc. You sound like you must be super cheap or something. Why on earth are you cooking and doing laundry?? Laundry should be outsourced.

[Anonymous]

I missed where OP said they make 750k. I thought that was a commenter where both she and hubby are big law, hubby partner. no? From original post, I assumed maybe 400k or so.

[Anonymous]

I think you are getting a lot of weird advice.

First important point: Do you love your job and is your work meaningful?

Your children are 2 and 6. So next year or the year after they'll both be in the same private school on the same schedule. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

But are your aunt and uncle also paying for a FT nanny and private school? That’s a chunk of change right there... guessing over $100k/yr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds to me that at this point in time, your kids are getting as much of your time as parents who work more of a 9-5 schedule are able to give their kids. The problem is that as your kids get older, they will go to bed later, and it is going to be really hard to get in an extra 3 hours of work after they go to bed. Then add in all of the activities that your kids will likely end up doing and things will get even more hectic.

Are you happy? It sounds like you get no down time at all. I would keep looking for job opportunities with the federal government. As a PP noted, these years go by so fast. At the end of the day, I don't think you would look back and regret finding a less stressful job. Good luck. I know it's really hard finding the right balance.

Op, this person gave you good advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

But are your aunt and uncle also paying for a FT nanny and private school? That’s a chunk of change right there... guessing over $100k/yr.

So assuming they need to gross $200k to pay for the nanny and private school, they only have half a million dollars left. Practically paupers! No way can they afford a housekeeper, amirite?

FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

But are your aunt and uncle also paying for a FT nanny and private school? That’s a chunk of change right there... guessing over $100k/yr.

So assuming they need to gross $200k to pay for the nanny and private school, they only have half a million dollars left. Practically paupers! No way can they afford a housekeeper, amirite?

FFS.

$500k before taxes. That’s what, $250k after? I’m assuming that doesn’t include their retirement and college savings — another $100k. Then another chunk for mortgage. Vacations, cleaners, classes... I can see how this would add up.

[Anonymous]

OK OP I’ll bite. We live in a lower COL area. One kid SN who needs lots of private tutoring and one kid in private. We make about $550k/year. Kids 6 and 9. DH and I both work a lot, me more than him. Like you, we see our kids quite a bit in the mornings and evenings and weekend,but work much of the time outside that.

We
- drive old, cars, not necessarily beaters (10 year old BMW, Volvo) but no car payments
- have a very skilled nanny who has been with us for 5+ years who we pay very well
- use wash and fold for all adult laundry + sheets. Nanny does kid laundry
- always do delivery groceries except for occasional trips to farmers market or purely for enjoyment
- nanny coordinates many appointments for kids and while we discuss activities with nanny she often takes them.
- we do clean up our own dishes after dinner but I also know
- Have a very good house cleaner who takes our own initiative.
- I have a virtual personal assistant who fills out any forms for me / does a bunch of web research in my personal life (handling kid activity forms, researching vacation options, handling any place I might have to call and wait on hold, choosing gifts and writing notes)
- we have a caterer friend who makes some of our dinners (we pay) and drops them off, about 1-2 weeknights/week
- we definitely trade off time — usually one of us sleeps in while the other gets the kids ready. We did take our daughter to school but nanny handles any drop offs and pickups in her time there

my advice,
- money is best spent saving you time on things you dont’ like or allowing you to do things you do) This is backed up science (getting takeout or taking a vacation buy more happiness than a fancy car per dollar on average ) Consider outsounrcing anything that isn’t of value to do yourself (laundry, cleaning bathrooms, I also personally view a decorator as a great investment, we have that too, no time to browse through samples and I’m slow and not great at it)
- I know several high powered couples with two nannies. You probably need that. Choose either morning or evening to get some extra help from someone, depending on when you and your DH would find that would reduce your scut work and most increase your productivity. I’m guessing some to set up and clean up dinner and help get things cleaned up at the end of the day and also keep one of your kids occupied while you spend time with another could be a good job, or you could just go with the evening housekeeper. For $30/hr 15 hrs /week you would likely get many applicants for that job. This could be great for older kids, leaving you time to talk to your children. I know others who literally have 80 hours a week of nanny coverage. For babies that is a good choice as someone needs to watch all the time. You are sort of in between.

But you need to think about what your long term plan is. You either realistically probably need to spend more on outsourcing(not THAT much at your scale, maybe requires paring back an extravagance elsewhere), get family help, or scale back one of your jobs). this isn’t a scolding, it’s just math that you already see— there are only so many hours a day and things come up. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK OP I’ll bite. We live in a lower COL area. One kid SN who needs lots of private tutoring and one kid in private. We make about $550k/year. Kids 6 and 9. DH and I both work a lot, me more than him. Like you, we see our kids quite a bit in the mornings and evenings and weekend,but work much of the time outside that.

We
- drive old, cars, not necessarily beaters (10 year old BMW, Volvo) but no car payments
- have a very skilled nanny who has been with us for 5+ years who we pay very well
- use wash and fold for all adult laundry + sheets. Nanny does kid laundry
- always do delivery groceries except for occasional trips to farmers market or purely for enjoyment
- nanny coordinates many appointments for kids and while we discuss activities with nanny she often takes them.
- we do clean up our own dishes after dinner but I also know
- Have a very good house cleaner who takes our own initiative.
- I have a virtual personal assistant who fills out any forms for me / does a bunch of web research in my personal life (handling kid activity forms, researching vacation options, handling any place I might have to call and wait on hold, choosing gifts and writing notes)
- we have a caterer friend who makes some of our dinners (we pay) and drops them off, about 1-2 weeknights/week
- we definitely trade off time — usually one of us sleeps in while the other gets the kids ready. We did take our daughter to school but nanny handles any drop offs and pickups in her time there

my advice,
- money is best spent saving you time on things you dont’ like or allowing you to do things you do) This is backed up science (getting takeout or taking a vacation buy more happiness than a fancy car per dollar on average ) Consider outsounrcing anything that isn’t of value to do yourself (laundry, cleaning bathrooms, I also personally view a decorator as a great investment, we have that too, no time to browse through samples and I’m slow and not great at it)
- I know several high powered couples with two nannies. You probably need that. Choose either morning or evening to get some extra help from someone, depending on when you and your DH would find that would reduce your scut work and most increase your productivity. I’m guessing some to set up and clean up dinner and help get things cleaned up at the end of the day and also keep one of your kids occupied while you spend time with another could be a good job, or you could just go with the evening housekeeper. For $30/hr 15 hrs /week you would likely get many applicants for that job. This could be great for older kids, leaving you time to talk to your children. I know others who literally have 80 hours a week of nanny coverage. For babies that is a good choice as someone needs to watch all the time. You are sort of in between.

But you need to think about what your long term plan is. You either realistically probably need to spend more on outsourcing(not THAT much at your scale, maybe requires paring back an extravagance elsewhere), get family help, or scale back one of your jobs). this isn’t a scolding, it’s just math that you already see— there are only so many hours a day and things come up. Good luck to you!

Pp here, a couple more details
- you need at least one nanny who can take the kids wherever they need to go and who can do things like schedule flu shots, pick up random stuff they need for school without even telling you about it.
- I can do all this but I have no hobbies, am exhausted outside of work and kids and am not in the shape i should be. Diet and exercise suboptimal. If some wants to show me the schedule Julianna Margulies’ character was following (yes I know it’s fake) to kick ass at work, do all these really distracting kid errands, run for office and be in awesome shape and perfectly clad and coiffed I would be most interested

[Anonymous]

I am so burnt out but we need the income so me leaving my job really isn’t an option.

Your family can't live on $500k? Half a million dollars? Please.

[Anonymous]

OP — I have lived your life. At the end of the day, you and your husband/partner need to decide what you want. Is it professional growth? Is it time with your littles? These are hard questions if you’ve ever had to wrestle with them. I still do 10 years later. You and DH have to decide what you want today and what is possible tomorrow. We can’t always be parent and the professional we want to be at the same time. Not ideal, but it is the truth. I have dialed back to 4 days/week and it has helped out family tremendously. My career, not so much. But I am 45 and am ok with that.