Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death

[Anonymous]

OP, I am so curious about what your childhood was like. Did your mother make dinners or take you to the doctor appointments or drive? Or did your father do all that?

It just seems so weird to me if a formerly capable person willingly became or acted so helpless for so long.

I hope your strategy works out and helps your Mom become a little more self-sufficient. You'll have to emphasize with the aide that it's vital to NOT simply do every little thing for her. And you have potential for so many small victories with the trash, shower, TV, activities. I really hope you see progress. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

She is not eligible for assisted care. Get a companion..a couple hours a day- it isn't expensive. It's not a nurse.

What was it like to watch that behavior your whole life and how did it impact your decisions and lifestyle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am so curious about what your childhood was like. Did your mother make dinners or take you to the doctor appointments or drive? Or did your father do all that?

It just seems so weird to me if a formerly capable person willingly became or acted so helpless for so long.

I hope your strategy works out and helps your Mom become a little more self-sufficient. You'll have to emphasize with the aide that it's vital to NOT simply do every little thing for her. And you have potential for so many small victories with the trash, shower, TV, activities. I really hope you see progress. Good luck!

Me, too. This was my first thought...what was it like to be a child in this family. Some things I get..the bill paying maybe, but the rest is odd even for her age. My mother woukd be 91 had she lived. She was educated, never worked though until we were teens, but did everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It may be an attention thing. The more help she requires the more attention she gets. She's not more self sufficient because there is nothing in it for her to be more self sufficient. As long as she can get others to do for her, she will keep on demanding that kind of attention.

There is a chance that when she gets around other 80/90 year old women who are doing basic things for themselves and she becomes friends with those ladies, Mom will suddenly want to be competent like her friends are.

I would step back and see how things go.

I have some dysfunctional family and we hoped so much that a different setting or different influences might let them break free of the dysfunction. But it doesn't really work, they just carry it with them. OP's mother has been around competent people her whole life without becoming competent herself, so it's not likely to happen now.

I do think you're right about the attention being part of the attraction for her. Maybe it's some kind of a personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It may be an attention thing. The more help she requires the more attention she gets. She's not more self sufficient because there is nothing in it for her to be more self sufficient. As long as she can get others to do for her, she will keep on demanding that kind of attention.

There is a chance that when she gets around other 80/90 year old women who are doing basic things for themselves and she becomes friends with those ladies, Mom will suddenly want to be competent like her friends are.

I would step back and see how things go.

I have some dysfunctional family and we hoped so much that a different setting or different influences might let them break free of the dysfunction. But it doesn't really work, they just carry it with them. OP's mother has been around competent people her whole life without becoming competent herself, so it's not likely to happen now.

I do think you're right about the attention being part of the attraction for her. Maybe it's some kind of a personality disorder.

My guess is that it started with a husband who loved to dote on and do for her. He probably was the type to open doors for her, run her bath, clear her dinner plate, etc. It was his gentlemanly way of treating his wife like a lady and Mom just ate up the attention. It all just snowballed from there and wound up with Mom allowing the aides at the assisted living place to basically take over very routine tasks for her. It was attention plain and simple.

Mom is used to being doted on and done for. That doesn't mean that she is incapable of dong for herself, though. She is just VERY out of practice. This is just a guess though.

[Anonymous]

I think you should put her back in the $12K assisted living until she dies or her money runs out. Chances are that she won’t live that long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am so curious about what your childhood was like. Did your mother make dinners or take you to the doctor appointments or drive? Or did your father do all that?

It just seems so weird to me if a formerly capable person willingly became or acted so helpless for so long.

I hope your strategy works out and helps your Mom become a little more self-sufficient. You'll have to emphasize with the aide that it's vital to NOT simply do every little thing for her. And you have potential for so many small victories with the trash, shower, TV, activities. I really hope you see progress. Good luck!

Me, too. This was my first thought...what was it like to be a child in this family. Some things I get..the bill paying maybe, but the rest is odd even for her age. My mother woukd be 91 had she lived. She was educated, never worked though until we were teens, but did everything.

To answer the questions above....

My mother, although educated, did not work....not even when we became teens or, later, after we graduated from college. (She was still in her 40s at that point.) Her degree was in nursing, ironic considering she picked a profession that involved caring for others when she was so needy of having others care for her.

As for my childhood, Mom did make dinners, although I recall her asking my father if they could hire someone to cook, serve dinner, and clean up. My dad was opposed, especially since my mother was not working outside the home, and there really wasn't money for that. But I will say her dinners were good, and very creative. And very balanced.

We did have a housekeeper who came once a week and did the vacuuming, helped with ironing (the 1960s), and heavy chores.

As for driving, she was always fearful and limited to very local drives - to the Giant a mile away, to pick me up at the school, the local pediatrician a couple of miles away, that type of thing. Anything that required a drive of 30 minutes fell to my father.

I am looking forward to the staff meeting at the new place tomorrow. I will keep everyone posted, as you all have been very helpful.

[Anonymous]

She sounds like she has an anxiety disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am so curious about what your childhood was like. Did your mother make dinners or take you to the doctor appointments or drive? Or did your father do all that?

It just seems so weird to me if a formerly capable person willingly became or acted so helpless for so long.

I hope your strategy works out and helps your Mom become a little more self-sufficient. You'll have to emphasize with the aide that it's vital to NOT simply do every little thing for her. And you have potential for so many small victories with the trash, shower, TV, activities. I really hope you see progress. Good luck!

Me, too. This was my first thought...what was it like to be a child in this family. Some things I get..the bill paying maybe, but the rest is odd even for her age. My mother woukd be 91 had she lived. She was educated, never worked though until we were teens, but did everything.

To answer the questions above....

My mother, although educated, did not work....not even when we became teens or, later, after we graduated from college. (She was still in her 40s at that point.) Her degree was in nursing, ironic considering she picked a profession that involved caring for others when she was so needy of having others care for her.

As for my childhood, Mom did make dinners, although I recall her asking my father if they could hire someone to cook, serve dinner, and clean up. My dad was opposed, especially since my mother was not working outside the home, and there really wasn't money for that. But I will say her dinners were good, and very creative. And very balanced.

We did have a housekeeper who came once a week and did the vacuuming, helped with ironing (the 1960s), and heavy chores.

As for driving, she was always fearful and limited to very local drives - to the Giant a mile away, to pick me up at the school, the local pediatrician a couple of miles away, that type of thing. Anything that required a drive of 30 minutes fell to my father.

I am looking forward to the staff meeting at the new place tomorrow. I will keep everyone posted, as you all have been very helpful.

Well, ok, it sounds closer to my mother's experience, but she did go back to work after years. The time frame allowed and assumed a lot of dependence of women to men...my mother had credit cards that were actually my Dad's and she signed Mrs. Dad's Name. Same with checks. Ironically, she was the financial mastermind and Dad was the "front" when it came to buying cars, mortgages, decisions about spending, and investments. When she died...he was kind of lost even though he ran his own business. He had no idea about personal finance and was not interested. But these ladies, in their social group, really came to life in the 1970s...in every way, but your Mom just kept the same template. I don't think she can't do these things. They got into a codependent groove that worked for them both. Now she's alone and scared. Her helplessness is now a cover for her grief and fear. I think when a spouse dies after decades and decades, it's like a piece of the surviving spouse dying. She can't handle that much change in the middle of grief. She'll be ok in an independent living with a paid very part time companion and some distractions. Best of luck. Dealing with declining inlaws now. .weird issues really do get exposed...we are finding that out now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am so curious about what your childhood was like. Did your mother make dinners or take you to the doctor appointments or drive? Or did your father do all that?

It just seems so weird to me if a formerly capable person willingly became or acted so helpless for so long.

I hope your strategy works out and helps your Mom become a little more self-sufficient. You'll have to emphasize with the aide that it's vital to NOT simply do every little thing for her. And you have potential for so many small victories with the trash, shower, TV, activities. I really hope you see progress. Good luck!

Me, too. This was my first thought...what was it like to be a child in this family. Some things I get..the bill paying maybe, but the rest is odd even for her age. My mother woukd be 91 had she lived. She was educated, never worked though until we were teens, but did everything.

To answer the questions above....

My mother, although educated, did not work....not even when we became teens or, later, after we graduated from college. (She was still in her 40s at that point.) Her degree was in nursing, ironic considering she picked a profession that involved caring for others when she was so needy of having others care for her.

As for my childhood, Mom did make dinners, although I recall her asking my father if they could hire someone to cook, serve dinner, and clean up. My dad was opposed, especially since my mother was not working outside the home, and there really wasn't money for that. But I will say her dinners were good, and very creative. And very balanced.

We did have a housekeeper who came once a week and did the vacuuming, helped with ironing (the 1960s), and heavy chores.

As for driving, she was always fearful and limited to very local drives - to the Giant a mile away, to pick me up at the school, the local pediatrician a couple of miles away, that type of thing. Anything that required a drive of 30 minutes fell to my father.

I am looking forward to the staff meeting at the new place tomorrow. I will keep everyone posted, as you all have been very helpful.

Well, ok, it sounds closer to my mother's experience, but she did go back to work after years. The time frame allowed and assumed a lot of dependence of women to men...my mother had credit cards that were actually my Dad's and she signed Mrs. Dad's Name. Same with checks. Ironically, she was the financial mastermind and Dad was the "front" when it came to buying cars, mortgages, decisions about spending, and investments. When she died...he was kind of lost even though he ran his own business. He had no idea about personal finance and was not interested. But these ladies, in their social group, really came to life in the 1970s...in every way, but your Mom just kept the same template. I don't think she can't do these things. They got into a codependent groove that worked for them both. Now she's alone and scared. Her helplessness is now a cover for her grief and fear. I think when a spouse dies after decades and decades, it's like a piece of the surviving spouse dying. She can't handle that much change in the middle of grief. She'll be ok in an independent living with a paid very part time companion and some distractions. Best of luck. Dealing with declining inlaws now. .weird issues really do get exposed...we are finding that out now.

^nailed it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was going to ask if you have Power of Attorney, and if not, point out that it's her money, and she can make the move if she so chooses. However, that would be an incredibly stupid comment to make, because a woman who can't change the channel on the TV (!!!) obviously can't organize a move.

I am going to be less charitable than others, and say that she has been manipulating you, your sister, and your father before you for years, and is a fairly terrible person. The fact that you and your sister are alternating 3-day weekends with her is an easy example of this, as is the fact that you are continually having this discussion. Come on, OP.

You are right, she's not going to change. The only person you can change here is yourself - you need to decide that you won't be manipulated anymore. That can take many forms, from living your own life, not hostage to an able woman who just refuses to care for herself. If she wants to life in squalor, that's her choice, and you don't feel guilty about it. If she wants to watch a test pattern because she can't use the remote, you don't hire someone to do it for her, and you don't give it a second thought.

You have had experience caring for someone who truly is incapacitated, so you know how exhausting it is. It's not something you (or anyone) should feel compelled to do.

Remember, the only behavior you can change here is yours.

This. She sounds awful.

[Anonymous]

OP, your mother sounds a lot like my MIL. My FIL is still alive and incredibly capable despite being in his late 80s. He does every.single.thing for her, even sleeps on the floor at her command because she won't have him in the same bed or in a separate room. But even he is (FINALLY!) starting to get fed up and it's not pretty.

Back to your problem. I've dealt with my own elderly parent's decline and I think you're expecting too much of your mother. As people age and decline cognitively, their essential personality tends to become more intense. My dad happened to be a very upbeat person; as he descended in dementia, he actually was comically happy and optimistic. Unfortunately, your mother is the opposite. It's not changing for the better now. At 88yo your mother is not going to become more capable/competent/confident. Just the opposite. She probably couldn't change now even if she wanted to. So you should plan around her long-standing passivity and misery, rather than hope for some epiphany and new energy.

[Anonymous]

So she made dinner for you growing up. Did she leave everything on counter? I doubt it. She threw away scraps & wrappers. She has manipulated you & your sister. My grandma is 88 and I she got the internet & a kindle last year and a smart phone this year. It took a bit, but now she's all "I'm watching a Steelers podcast on youtube." Elderly people are capable of learning.

[Anonymous]

OP this is a very complex situation. First I know you probably have done this but some research shows that people over the age of 85 (some) want to do very little. They are not really interested in the things they offer

[Anonymous]

OP here, and thank you for this latest group of posts. I'm so exhausted that I can't summon the energy to respond right now (5 hours of sleep the last few nights, from stress) but I will check back in tomorrow. You all have been very kind in helping me work through this.