Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death

[Anonymous]

OP this is a very complex situation. First I know you probably have done this but some research shows that people over the age of 85 (some) want to do very little. They are not really interested in the things they offer

[Anonymous]

Your mom needs someone to do these little tasks because it makes her feel loved. Hire someone to do them and screen them very carefully.

[Anonymous]

Why would it be $25/hr? If you just want someone to pick up after her Surely you could find that much cheaper.

[Anonymous]

OP, is there a staff family liaison or social worker or case manager in your mother's facility? Please look into involving a third party professional to mediate and intervene if needed.

If not, you might have to go searching and hire someone to outline steps to save your sanity and your relationship with your sister.

I dealt with an awful situation involving my grandparents - 250 miles away - and had to get social services involved.

[Anonymous]

OP, several of your posts have referenced hospice. If your mom has hospice services, some medical professional has assessed that she has less than 6 months left to live. In my experience (PP w/ father who had dementia) it's VERY hard to qualify for hospice without a clearly terminal condition - they don't give away hospice services just for old age. So either you're misstating things out of confusion or there's something else going on here...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, several of your posts have referenced hospice. If your mom has hospice services, some medical professional has assessed that she has less than 6 months left to live. In my experience (PP w/ father who had dementia) it's VERY hard to qualify for hospice without a clearly terminal condition - they don't give away hospice services just for old age. So either you're misstating things out of confusion or there's something else going on here...

Just checked back in for a sec.....

The hospice I am referencing is the hospice we had in connection with my father. He definitely qualified. The service continues, to an extent, after death - with the survivors. The social worker contacted my mother after Dad died to see how she could help her with grieving. They also have offered my mother a bereavement support group, which she has thus far declined. I will continue to encourage her.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like OP’s father had hospice care when he died.

[Anonymous]

She was married 67 years to someone who took care of her. She's now 88 years old. I wouldn't expect her to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously there is a to of resentment from OP and sister towards mom. I get that though if mom was never able to be involved really in parenting given her inability to do anything independently, that is going to leave scars.

I think you have to be careful though to not take that resentment out on her now that she is vulnerable and OP and sister have control over her life and her finances. Since mom can't make decisions, OP and sister are making them all for her but through a lens of being very frustrated and hurt by having had a helpless parent.

I think you need a neutral party here - maybe an adult social worker who can help advocate for what mom needs, what her limits and abilities are, what reasonable expectations are, what supports she needs and that person can stay in regular contact to see how she is doing.

There is no way Op and sister can be that person given their anger and resentment and disappointment in their mother as a person, a wife, a mother etc. it would be better for them to step back from the decision making and just visit and be her daughters and have someone else who doesn't have financial interest or childhood hurt / pain be her advocate.

OMG. The woman has been there for TWO weeks and her dutiful daughters are in regular contact with Mom. Give the woman time to adjust to her new environment before you start berating the way Op and her sister are handling things. You sound just perfectly awful, tbh.

Op says (top of page 2)
"My sister is very angry as well. We just paid $1300 to move my mother to the new apartment, and my sister took two additional days off from work to help set the place up. I arrived a few days later, after shopping for all her new needs, and completed the job, including hanging up pictures."

They are both angry with their mother. They are resentful of having "helped" her (not based on moms wants) and are upset they gave time and energy to their mother. They are very resentful. It isn't clear if they are paying for moms accommodations or if mom has her own money.

You give someone something they don't want and then get mad they don't immediately like it and act appreciative. That isn't the sign of someone who can be an advocate. These two women have decades of anger and resentment. It may be justifiable if mom has always just been a helpless passive figure - but it doesn't make them good advocates.

What Op and her sister are going through right now is VERY frustrating. It is also VERY typical - especially in the first few weeks of placing an elderly parent in a new environment.

You do not seem to have much, if any, experience with this. All I can tell you is that your judgement is really harsh and uncalled for.

NP. As someone who is going through something similar with MIL (though to a much lesser degree), agree 100%. OP and her sister are doing a great job (and it's agree you two seem to be on the same page and working well together, that is not always the case). What they've proposed is very reasonable. What their mother has proposed (paying hundreds of thousands to be waited on hand and foot or for OP and her sister to drop their lives (jobs, kids) to wait on her hand and foot when she is capable) is not. GL, OP.

+1. Another note to say that OP you are doing a great job. This is a tough situation. Yes, your mom is scared and upset but she is getting older, lost her husband in a new and stressful situation. But she is very lucky to have you and your sister who seem to have all of her interests truly in mind. Your mom doesn't really need the place she was, and it isn't realistic given that she is very healthy now and will likely outlive her savings. Hopefully she will find a friend or two after a couple of months and things will be better. She is scared and upset but that has to happen in this situation. Generally, I really like the aide / OT ideas as a strong compromise. The aide could also work to get your mom out of her room and to some activities over time. You may need to give it 6 months.

Many of the posters criticizing you seem really to have never dealt with this type of situation. There are just no good answers. Hang in there. Your mom is having a rough time but she will get through. She is probably still grieving and at 88 adjustment *will* take longer . two weeks is nothing. Think of how 18 year olds at college are after 2 weeks. I feel like viewing it like that for your mom (But extending the expect time frames by a factor of 2-3 to account for her age) may help grant some perspective. I hope things get better soon and you and your sister find a balance that helps your mom and lets you move on with your lives as well. I hope that she will be loving that place in a year and I do think it is possible!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously there is a to of resentment from OP and sister towards mom. I get that though if mom was never able to be involved really in parenting given her inability to do anything independently, that is going to leave scars.

I think you have to be careful though to not take that resentment out on her now that she is vulnerable and OP and sister have control over her life and her finances. Since mom can't make decisions, OP and sister are making them all for her but through a lens of being very frustrated and hurt by having had a helpless parent.

I think you need a neutral party here - maybe an adult social worker who can help advocate for what mom needs, what her limits and abilities are, what reasonable expectations are, what supports she needs and that person can stay in regular contact to see how she is doing.

There is no way Op and sister can be that person given their anger and resentment and disappointment in their mother as a person, a wife, a mother etc. it would be better for them to step back from the decision making and just visit and be her daughters and have someone else who doesn't have financial interest or childhood hurt / pain be her advocate.

OMG. The woman has been there for TWO weeks and her dutiful daughters are in regular contact with Mom. Give the woman time to adjust to her new environment before you start berating the way Op and her sister are handling things. You sound just perfectly awful, tbh.

Op says (top of page 2)
"My sister is very angry as well. We just paid $1300 to move my mother to the new apartment, and my sister took two additional days off from work to help set the place up. I arrived a few days later, after shopping for all her new needs, and completed the job, including hanging up pictures."

They are both angry with their mother. They are resentful of having "helped" her (not based on moms wants) and are upset they gave time and energy to their mother. They are very resentful. It isn't clear if they are paying for moms accommodations or if mom has her own money.

You give someone something they don't want and then get mad they don't immediately like it and act appreciative. That isn't the sign of someone who can be an advocate. These two women have decades of anger and resentment. It may be justifiable if mom has always just been a helpless passive figure - but it doesn't make them good advocates.

What Op and her sister are going through right now is VERY frustrating. It is also VERY typical - especially in the first few weeks of placing an elderly parent in a new environment.

You do not seem to have much, if any, experience with this. All I can tell you is that your judgement is really harsh and uncalled for.

NP. As someone who is going through something similar with MIL (though to a much lesser degree), agree 100%. OP and her sister are doing a great job (and it's agree you two seem to be on the same page and working well together, that is not always the case). What they've proposed is very reasonable. What their mother has proposed (paying hundreds of thousands to be waited on hand and foot or for OP and her sister to drop their lives (jobs, kids) to wait on her hand and foot when she is capable) is not. GL, OP.

+1. Another note to say that OP you are doing a great job. This is a tough situation. Yes, your mom is scared and upset but she is getting older, lost her husband in a new and stressful situation. But she is very lucky to have you and your sister who seem to have all of her interests truly in mind. Your mom doesn't really need the place she was, and it isn't realistic given that she is very healthy now and will likely outlive her savings. Hopefully she will find a friend or two after a couple of months and things will be better. She is scared and upset but that has to happen in this situation. Generally, I really like the aide / OT ideas as a strong compromise. The aide could also work to get your mom out of her room and to some activities over time. You may need to give it 6 months.

Many of the posters criticizing you seem really to have never dealt with this type of situation. There are just no good answers. Hang in there. Your mom is having a rough time but she will get through. She is probably still grieving and at 88 adjustment *will* take longer . two weeks is nothing. Think of how 18 year olds at college are after 2 weeks. I feel like viewing it like that for your mom (But extending the expect time frames by a factor of 2-3 to account for her age) may help grant some perspective. I hope things get better soon and you and your sister find a balance that helps your mom and lets you move on with your lives as well. I hope that she will be loving that place in a year and I do think it is possible!

Thank you so much for your encouragement. Mosr of the posters here have also been very understanding - with good insights.

Also, just want to mention that she has more than a room. It's a 2-bedroom apartment, with a full kitchen and lots of windows. (She was really insistent on a two-bedroom, so that my sister and I would be comfortable for visits.) It's a corner, also, facing South and East, so lots of sunlight. It's really very nice.

I do hope the aide can get her out and about, or at least down to the dining room for meals, and have her sit with new people. Another big priority would be to get her to the exercise class. (Mom is mobile right now, but if she jusr sits in the apartment all day, she'll deteriorate, particularly at 88.) Those two things alone - getting her to the dining room for meals and going to exercise class - would be a good start. Then, if her spirits are buoyed by that, maybe she's be willing/able to learn some basic life skills (TV remote, shower temp, etc.)

That said, I'm going to bed. Bit first, a Tylenol. EXTRA STRENGTH.

[Anonymous]

Remember time is very different for older people. Two weeks seems like a day. A month seems like a weekend. A year seems like 2 months. The older you are the faster it goes. Bear that in mind with her adjustment. Best of luck to you— you are good daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she has a significant impairment/mental health disorder that she's had her whole life but the extent of it is becoming clear now your dad and the aides aren't there to compensate.

I don't think her intelligence or her lack of dementia or the idea of "learned helplessness" are all that relevant to whatever this is. People don't become unable to throw out trash because someone else did it for them for years; there's something bigger going on (OCD and anxiety and something else?) and whatever set of issues are at play aren't going to go away now.

I don't have good advice, just sympathy. I think solutions are more likely to lie with a psychiatrist than an OT, but it's going to be tough.

People can mask dementia. She is from a very different generation and world. No one is considering her life experiences.

[Anonymous]

If your mom can spend 12,000 a month, I would have a serious talk with your sister if their is room in either of your houses. If their is, the person who takes your mother in gets 6,000 a month. With that money the sister who takes in your mom gets to hire a full time housekeeper not only for your mom but also for your household. You will no longer have to cook or clean in your house. For $72,000 a year you can hire a M-F housekeeper as well as a weekend one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She needs companionship. The cheaper solution is to hire an aide or elder companion for a few hours a day or every other day and save the big guns for when and if she needs it someday.

Oops. Our messages overlapped.

As far as companionship, she has lovely neighbors - I've met three of them - who have asked her to join them with various social activities (and in the dining room for meals). So she has opportunity for socializing, but it's not the "help" she needs. When my sister and I made the very suggestion you did - hire an aide for every other day - she said she needs an aide full-time if she doesn't go back to AL. (Not overnights....she has the pendant.) But it would still be for at let 12 hours a day, at $25 an hour, five days a week, which adds up to $300 a day, or $1500 a week in addition to the $3,600 for the apartment. We're back up to almost $10,000 a month.

She has been irate on the phone the last couple of days because she says she is being neglected.

Why don't you hire her full time maid? It seems that all she needs is a maid. You can ask around in the local hotel, many of those ladies will be happy to take up job like that. 300 a day is a lot more then a maid will cost.

[Anonymous]

Maid on salary.. not hourly.