Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you for whom immigration is your #1 issue -- what exactly is it that bothers you so much?

I am SO much more bothered by the idea that our country is caging children. And I dearly hope there are more voters like me than there are children of immigrants (all of you) rushing to slam shut the door to freedom and opportunity.

If we had proper border controls, we wouldn't be in charge of those children. We wouldn't have unaccompanied minors entering our country when we weren't prepared to take over care for them. We wouldn't have concerns about children being trafficked and needing to separate them from the adults they are with. We would be able to turn away people with criminal records before they entered our country, so we wouldn't need to separate them from their children in order to deal with how we're required to handle adults and children differently.

I agree that "kids in cages" is terrible. The way to handle it is to control our borders so we're not forced into situations we're not prepared for. Other countries do not essentially set up refugee camps within their borders for people attempting to enter illegally. Border controls happen at the border. People wait to enter.

Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior, and establishing control is going to be challenging and painful. If we want a robust safety net, including some form of single payer health care, and I think we do, we cannot have open borders. If we're willing to forgo a robust safety net, then open borders might work.

If all we do is cry about "kids in cages" and not how we got here and what all of the causes are, we can guarantee ourselves this same conversation until the US is in a similar situation as our southern neighbors (difficulty handling influx of needy people, lower standards of living, more crime and dissatisfaction with possibilities, more desire for economic migration by citizens), and Canada starts having this conversation and we wail and moan about those meanies maintaining their border.

Not one word about mandatory e-verify from you or the conman or the GOP. Why not? Are you worried employers like trump may never be able to hire illegals with mandatory e-verify?

Since you have trouble reading, I'll pull it out for you:
"Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior"

All of our politicians have failed on this. If you think it's just the Dems or just the GOP, you are a useful idiot. Both parties have had multiple opportunities to prevent where we are now, and they have both failed terribly, and they're being very successful at winding you up and pointing you in the direction they want.

Who is in power now ? Who had full control of government for 2 years? Why wasn’t anything done about e-verify?

+1. The GOP is playing it’s voters for fools. They want illegal immigration so their rich donors can benefit. But they just blame the dems without doing anything to actually resolving it.

[Anonymous]

Another Democrat here who is deeply disturbed by the Democratic candidates' rhetoric on immigration at the debates. We are going to lose to Trump, AGAIN, because of this - and politics aside, it's just a ridiculous position.

If Democrats truly want to end the appalling conditions on the border, we need to understand that sane policies would discourage people from walking up to the border in the first place, because there are never going to be enough facilities to humanely and decently house them all. We should stop accepting asylum requests at the southern border completely and immediately send back anyone who asks for it at CBP. Require people who are currently flooding the southern border to request asylum at the US Embassy in their home countries through a ticket system like we do for visas (and if they are able to flee to a safe third country, they lose their claim to asylum in the US under international law). I think US taxpayers would be happy to pay relocation costs for anyone who genuinely and truly is being persecuted by their government. Mandate e-Verify across the board. Hire more immigration judges so that claims can be processed within days or weeks. I recognize that this requires Republican cooperation, which can't be counted on, but if the House were to bring up a bill that included this stuff, the Senate and Trump would have to publicly reject it, which after all their rhetoric about immigration, would be politically difficult for them to do. But the answer is NOT to jump hard left on immigration.

Democratic candidates and some of the Democrats on this thread need to realize that there are many, many people in the party who disagree with them on this. It is NOT racist or "Republican" or trolling to say that some of the policies that the Democratic candidates have proposed come functionally very close to open borders, and that the vast majority of this country does not want to open our borders to anyone poor person who wants to come. And for people who disagree that many of the Democrats are advocating for open borders (without actually using the term) - please explain how decriminalizing illegal entry, releasing most "asylum" seekers into the country while they wait years for their hearings and allowing them to work, providing free public education and healthcare while they are in the country, stopping deportations of those who "only" don't show up to their immigration hearings, and advocating a path to citizenship for ALL undocumented immigrants doesn't equal open borders.

Like PPs have said, I will be voting for Klobuchar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the op, yes. I am a democrat & have know that my party is more interested in helping folks without Napier’s then in helping my middle class family. We simply cannot solve everyone’s problems. We just can’t. It’s not ‘inhumane’ to say we can’t take you in. It’s inhumane to over extended & pretend like we can.
Yes- Dems are making immigration decisions in an echo chamber.

Why didn’t you listen to what Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Ryan, Sanders, Booker etc had to say during the debates? They talked about struggling families, the high price of education and health care, depressed wages, investing in green technologies of the future that will create jobs. Did you just leave the room whenever those topics were addressed? And why do you think it’s a bad thing to bring together central American and Mexican leaders tonaddress the systemic problems that are causing people to flee those countries and north? It’s always better to do preventative medicine than to try to fix the illness.

competing interests - So think about these points:

1. The MC and UMC end up paying (b/c we all know that's the case). So what are the benefits to them (us)??? And do you think "we" have enough money to cover these initiatives? show me the economic plan first.
2. Reparations for African Americans are a joke at this point, as the candidates are placing the wants of illegal immigrants over the needs of the AA community. Imagine the tension (and it already exists) in high-minority neighborhoods which provide of ton of services to the Hispanic community - CASA being one, Identity Inc being another.
3. What messages are we sending to those who entered legally? At this point, what message are we sending the world? that it's easier to enter through illegal measures, no?
4. What about our homeless population? I just read a horrifying story about a homeless 16 yo girl in Mass who was repeatedly raped by an officer. Our homeless population runs the gamut regarding demographics. Who addressed their needs?

and working with Central American and Mexican leaders? lol We send millions and millions of $ in aid to those countries. But until you can call them out for being corrupt, you're getting nowhere. So we need to stop the aid, focus on LEGAL immigration, and address our own internal problems.

I'm sorry, but we're not the World Police.

Here's an analogy for you. If I'm physically ill, I cannot help you until I'm better. I can't go to work. I can't help my children. I can't keep the house clean. So those who are affected by my illness need to "man up" by becoming resourceful and dealing on their own. This is the US. We aren't healthy. We have racial tension. We have far too many poor people to help. Our school systems across the nation are falling apart. Kids can barely read and write. Yet we are expected to provide assistance to EVERY other nation.

enough!

Let's get clean and sober and healthy first, and then extend ourselves.

Then why aren’t you for mandatory e-verify ? Why isn’t the GOP for mandatory e-verify ? If you cut off the job spigot then it stops the non- desperate economic migrants. Why isn’t trump mandating e-verify in his properties ?

So many of you think that e-verify is the answer. Great, I say! If this is the case, then what do YOU propose WE do to insist this magic measure is used?


So you can scream about e-verify (and you're one of many), but what actions are you taking to ensure it's in place?
- Are you emailing your local reps?
-Are you bombarding the 20+ D candidates who are in love with "loose" borders?
-Are you holding protests around Trump's properties?
- Have you researched the names of others companies who are hiring illegal immigrants? If so, please share.

If you don't have answers to these questions, then I'll just assume you don't have a plan.

my plan? to clean up the mess in the centers by hiring more judges for quicker processing, tighten the borders, focus on legal immigration, and limit the number entering while we address our internal problems of poverty/homelessness and piss poor education

The MC and UMC are the backbone of this nation, yet we're sh*t on each day. So why am I struggling to put away money for my OWN children's college tuition when ultimately I'm paying for everyone else?

see the issue?

[Anonymous]

I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

Oh, I also remember waiting in 2 hour lines for milk and bread at the govt controlled grocery stores since they took over the farms and promised that they could do things better than private industry. “Mother Russia will provide for their citizens”. That was bull, never enough of anything ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

+1

I have no problem paying taxes and giving my share to help the truly needy. However, I don’t exist to work to pay taxes to pay the way of people from other countries. If every American had what they needed in terms of healthcare and decent public schools and basic living standards, then, let’s help others. Right now disabled and working class American families are struggling. It’s a slap in the face to give to others when our own still need help. I don’t know how democrats see immigration as a winner ticket but I believe they are sorely mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

Oh, I also remember waiting in 2 hour lines for milk and bread at the govt controlled grocery stores since they took over the farms and promised that they could do things better than private industry. “Mother Russia will provide for their citizens”. That was bull, never enough of anything ever.

The government doesn’t provide for us. We provide for the governor via taxes. And then they buy votes to stay in power and give what’s left. They have never kept their promises to Americans.

[Anonymous]

Immigration is the boogeyman issue of the moment. It's one the R's could have addressed in their 2 years of total government control and they didn't. And don't give me any BS about D obstructionism. They could have given in on some things to achieve their goals and they chose all or nothing. So this is on them.

I've been hearing for the last 10 years about how all "the Mexicans" are going to take all our jobs, recruit all our kids into gangs, etc. etc. Are there significant issues? Yes. Should we have open borders? No. But, you can address the deficiencies and still maintain some semblance of human decency. They maybe non-citizens but they are still mothers, fathers, children. They are fleeing desperate situations. They are not widgets on an assembly lines.

I'd certainly be more willing to bend a little to R proposals if they didn't approach the situation like soulless assholes and if they showed a little decency. Like re: the Dreamers for a start. And not blaming a drowned father for his death and the death of his daughter, like they are pieces of trash in a river. But, this is what I've come to expect from the "pro life" party. Or should I say the selectively pro life party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the op, yes. I am a democrat & have know that my party is more interested in helping folks without Napier’s then in helping my middle class family. We simply cannot solve everyone’s problems. We just can’t. It’s not ‘inhumane’ to say we can’t take you in. It’s inhumane to over extended & pretend like we can.
Yes- Dems are making immigration decisions in an echo chamber.

Why didn’t you listen to what Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Ryan, Sanders, Booker etc had to say during the debates? They talked about struggling families, the high price of education and health care, depressed wages, investing in green technologies of the future that will create jobs. Did you just leave the room whenever those topics were addressed? And why do you think it’s a bad thing to bring together central American and Mexican leaders tonaddress the systemic problems that are causing people to flee those countries and north? It’s always better to do preventative medicine than to try to fix the illness.

competing interests - So think about these points:

1. The MC and UMC end up paying (b/c we all know that's the case). So what are the benefits to them (us)??? And do you think "we" have enough money to cover these initiatives? show me the economic plan first.
2. Reparations for African Americans are a joke at this point, as the candidates are placing the wants of illegal immigrants over the needs of the AA community. Imagine the tension (and it already exists) in high-minority neighborhoods which provide of ton of services to the Hispanic community - CASA being one, Identity Inc being another.
3. What messages are we sending to those who entered legally? At this point, what message are we sending the world? that it's easier to enter through illegal measures, no?
4. What about our homeless population? I just read a horrifying story about a homeless 16 yo girl in Mass who was repeatedly raped by an officer. Our homeless population runs the gamut regarding demographics. Who addressed their needs?

and working with Central American and Mexican leaders? lol We send millions and millions of $ in aid to those countries. But until you can call them out for being corrupt, you're getting nowhere. So we need to stop the aid, focus on LEGAL immigration, and address our own internal problems.

I'm sorry, but we're not the World Police.

Here's an analogy for you. If I'm physically ill, I cannot help you until I'm better. I can't go to work. I can't help my children. I can't keep the house clean. So those who are affected by my illness need to "man up" by becoming resourceful and dealing on their own. This is the US. We aren't healthy. We have racial tension. We have far too many poor people to help. Our school systems across the nation are falling apart. Kids can barely read and write. Yet we are expected to provide assistance to EVERY other nation.

enough!

Let's get clean and sober and healthy first, and then extend ourselves.

Then why aren’t you for mandatory e-verify ? Why isn’t the GOP for mandatory e-verify ? If you cut off the job spigot then it stops the non- desperate economic migrants. Why isn’t trump mandating e-verify in his properties ?

So many of you think that e-verify is the answer. Great, I say! If this is the case, then what do YOU propose WE do to insist this magic measure is used?


So you can scream about e-verify (and you're one of many), but what actions are you taking to ensure it's in place?
- Are you emailing your local reps?
-Are you bombarding the 20+ D candidates who are in love with "loose" borders?
-Are you holding protests around Trump's properties?
- Have you researched the names of others companies who are hiring illegal immigrants? If so, please share.

If you don't have answers to these questions, then I'll just assume you don't have a plan.

my plan? to clean up the mess in the centers by hiring more judges for quicker processing, tighten the borders, focus on legal immigration, and limit the number entering while we address our internal problems of poverty/homelessness and piss poor education

The MC and UMC are the backbone of this nation, yet we're sh*t on each day. So why am I struggling to put away money for my OWN children's college tuition when ultimately I'm paying for everyone else?

see the issue?

I have republican senators who voted against mandatory e-verify. So go figure? One is ex-businessman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is the boogeyman issue of the moment. It's one the R's could have addressed in their 2 years of total government control and they didn't. And don't give me any BS about D obstructionism. They could have given in on some things to achieve their goals and they chose all or nothing. So this is on them.

I've been hearing for the last 10 years about how all "the Mexicans" are going to take all our jobs, recruit all our kids into gangs, etc. etc. Are there significant issues? Yes. Should we have open borders? No. But, you can address the deficiencies and still maintain some semblance of human decency. They maybe non-citizens but they are still mothers, fathers, children. They are fleeing desperate situations. They are not widgets on an assembly lines.

I'd certainly be more willing to bend a little to R proposals if they didn't approach the situation like soulless assholes and if they showed a little decency. Like re: the Dreamers for a start. And not blaming a drowned father for his death and the death of his daughter, like they are pieces of trash in a river. But, this is what I've come to expect from the "pro life" party. Or should I say the selectively pro life party.

Bingo. They WILL NOT UTTER THE WORDS "MANDATORY E-VERIFY". if employers like trump don't hire illegals then MANy won't come and it becomes a manageable issue. But nope. NEVER WILL EVER the businessmen be put in jail for hiring illegals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

+1

I have no problem paying taxes and giving my share to help the truly needy. However, I don’t exist to work to pay taxes to pay the way of people from other countries. If every American had what they needed in terms of healthcare and decent public schools and basic living standards, then, let’s help others. Right now disabled and working class American families are struggling. It’s a slap in the face to give to others when our own still need help. I don’t know how democrats see immigration as a winner ticket but I believe they are sorely mistaken.

You are so business friendly that you don;t want to put fraud businessmen like trump in jail for not paying taxes OR FOR HIRING ILLEGALS or for money laundering from Russia. The business men get away not paying taxes, hiring illegals etc etc. And they are rewarded by even more tax cuts. No wonder the GOP can't solve the illegal immigration because they are for open borders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

+1. If you wanted more legal immigrants, you'd make the legal system more efficient. Instead, it's slow, byzantine, underfunded. A broken system is a feature, not a bug, if you're mostly interested in just not having that many immigrants. If you want more legal immigrants, you create a system that can swiftly process a lot of people and separate the dangerous people who shouldn't be let in from the ordinary people who should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

so many people who LOVE Godwin's Law!

You all should form an online forum. How many posts does it take BEFORE someone resurrects Godwin's Law?

Mike Godwin weighed in on this. He says it's appropriate to call these concentration camps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another Democrat here who is deeply disturbed by the Democratic candidates' rhetoric on immigration at the debates. We are going to lose to Trump, AGAIN, because of this - and politics aside, it's just a ridiculous position.

If Democrats truly want to end the appalling conditions on the border, we need to understand that sane policies would discourage people from walking up to the border in the first place, because there are never going to be enough facilities to humanely and decently house them all. We should stop accepting asylum requests at the southern border completely and immediately send back anyone who asks for it at CBP. Require people who are currently flooding the southern border to request asylum at the US Embassy in their home countries through a ticket system like we do for visas (and if they are able to flee to a safe third country, they lose their claim to asylum in the US under international law). I think US taxpayers would be happy to pay relocation costs for anyone who genuinely and truly is being persecuted by their government. Mandate e-Verify across the board. Hire more immigration judges so that claims can be processed within days or weeks. I recognize that this requires Republican cooperation, which can't be counted on, but if the House were to bring up a bill that included this stuff, the Senate and Trump would have to publicly reject it, which after all their rhetoric about immigration, would be politically difficult for them to do. But the answer is NOT to jump hard left on immigration.

Democratic candidates and some of the Democrats on this thread need to realize that there are many, many people in the party who disagree with them on this. It is NOT racist or "Republican" or trolling to say that some of the policies that the Democratic candidates have proposed come functionally very close to open borders, and that the vast majority of this country does not want to open our borders to anyone poor person who wants to come. And for people who disagree that many of the Democrats are advocating for open borders (without actually using the term) - please explain how decriminalizing illegal entry, releasing most "asylum" seekers into the country while they wait years for their hearings and allowing them to work, providing free public education and healthcare while they are in the country, stopping deportations of those who "only" don't show up to their immigration hearings, and advocating a path to citizenship for ALL undocumented immigrants doesn't equal open borders.

Like PPs have said, I will be voting for Klobuchar.

The republicans are even more for open borders because they are against putting businessmen in jails for hiring illegals. ANYONE WHO IS AGAINST MANDATORY E-VERIFY IS FOR OPEN BORDERS. PERIOD.

[Anonymous]

This PP nailed it. We will 100% lose again if the candidates keep talking crazy on immigration. People are outraged at kids in cages being treated terribly - that does not mean independents and mainstream/moderate Dems want to see defacto open borders. This issue alone will kill us if the left keeps dragging us off a cliff on it.

“Another Democrat here who is deeply disturbed by the Democratic candidates' rhetoric on immigration at the debates. We are going to lose to Trump, AGAIN, because of this - and politics aside, it's just a ridiculous position.

If Democrats truly want to end the appalling conditions on the border, we need to understand that sane policies would discourage people from walking up to the border in the first place, because there are never going to be enough facilities to humanely and decently house them all. We should stop accepting asylum requests at the southern border completely and immediately send back anyone who asks for it at CBP. Require people who are currently flooding the southern border to request asylum at the US Embassy in their home countries through a ticket system like we do for visas (and if they are able to flee to a safe third country, they lose their claim to asylum in the US under international law). I think US taxpayers would be happy to pay relocation costs for anyone who genuinely and truly is being persecuted by their government. Mandate e-Verify across the board. Hire more immigration judges so that claims can be processed within days or weeks. I recognize that this requires Republican cooperation, which can't be counted on, but if the House were to bring up a bill that included this stuff, the Senate and Trump would have to publicly reject it, which after all their rhetoric about immigration, would be politically difficult for them to do. But the answer is NOT to jump hard left on immigration.

Democratic candidates and some of the Democrats on this thread need to realize that there are many, many people in the party who disagree with them on this. It is NOT racist or "Republican" or trolling to say that some of the policies that the Democratic candidates have proposed come functionally very close to open borders, and that the vast majority of this country does not want to open our borders to anyone poor person who wants to come. And for people who disagree that many of the Democrats are advocating for open borders (without actually using the term) - please explain how decriminalizing illegal entry, releasing most "asylum" seekers into the country while they wait years for their hearings and allowing them to work, providing free public education and healthcare while they are in the country, stopping deportations of those who "only" don't show up to their immigration hearings, and advocating a path to citizenship for ALL undocumented immigrants doesn't equal open borders. ”