Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

+1. If you wanted more legal immigrants, you'd make the legal system more efficient. Instead, it's slow, byzantine, underfunded. A broken system is a feature, not a bug, if you're mostly interested in just not having that many immigrants. If you want more legal immigrants, you create a system that can swiftly process a lot of people and separate the dangerous people who shouldn't be let in from the ordinary people who should.

You should fix the system. Stroll into the halls of power and do it Monday morning. Easy!

[Anonymous]

“The republicans are even more for open borders because they are against putting businessmen in jails for hiring illegals. ANYONE WHO IS AGAINST MANDATORY E-VERIFY IS FOR OPEN BORDERS. PERIOD.”

I support mandatory verify. I will be voting for whoever the D nominee is. But saying all the crazy stuff that was floated at the debates while trying to argue PP’s point above will get us nowhere with swing voters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This PP nailed it. We will 100% lose again if the candidates keep talking crazy on immigration. People are outraged at kids in cages being treated terribly - that does not mean independents and mainstream/moderate Dems want to see defacto open borders. This issue alone will kill us if the left keeps dragging us off a cliff on it.

“Another Democrat here who is deeply disturbed by the Democratic candidates' rhetoric on immigration at the debates. We are going to lose to Trump, AGAIN, because of this - and politics aside, it's just a ridiculous position.

If Democrats truly want to end the appalling conditions on the border, we need to understand that sane policies would discourage people from walking up to the border in the first place, because there are never going to be enough facilities to humanely and decently house them all. We should stop accepting asylum requests at the southern border completely and immediately send back anyone who asks for it at CBP. Require people who are currently flooding the southern border to request asylum at the US Embassy in their home countries through a ticket system like we do for visas (and if they are able to flee to a safe third country, they lose their claim to asylum in the US under international law). I think US taxpayers would be happy to pay relocation costs for anyone who genuinely and truly is being persecuted by their government. Mandate e-Verify across the board. Hire more immigration judges so that claims can be processed within days or weeks. I recognize that this requires Republican cooperation, which can't be counted on, but if the House were to bring up a bill that included this stuff, the Senate and Trump would have to publicly reject it, which after all their rhetoric about immigration, would be politically difficult for them to do. But the answer is NOT to jump hard left on immigration.

Democratic candidates and some of the Democrats on this thread need to realize that there are many, many people in the party who disagree with them on this. It is NOT racist or "Republican" or trolling to say that some of the policies that the Democratic candidates have proposed come functionally very close to open borders, and that the vast majority of this country does not want to open our borders to anyone poor person who wants to come. And for people who disagree that many of the Democrats are advocating for open borders (without actually using the term) - please explain how decriminalizing illegal entry, releasing most "asylum" seekers into the country while they wait years for their hearings and allowing them to work, providing free public education and healthcare while they are in the country, stopping deportations of those who "only" don't show up to their immigration hearings, and advocating a path to citizenship for ALL undocumented immigrants doesn't equal open borders. ”

Then we need to pass mandatory E-verify opposed by TRUMP and GOP because they love the businessmen to hire illegals. Who else will pay for their election expenses? If you stop the job spigot then we can manage the refugee issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another Democrat here who is deeply disturbed by the Democratic candidates' rhetoric on immigration at the debates. We are going to lose to Trump, AGAIN, because of this - and politics aside, it's just a ridiculous position.

If Democrats truly want to end the appalling conditions on the border, we need to understand that sane policies would discourage people from walking up to the border in the first place, because there are never going to be enough facilities to humanely and decently house them all. We should stop accepting asylum requests at the southern border completely and immediately send back anyone who asks for it at CBP. Require people who are currently flooding the southern border to request asylum at the US Embassy in their home countries through a ticket system like we do for visas (and if they are able to flee to a safe third country, they lose their claim to asylum in the US under international law). I think US taxpayers would be happy to pay relocation costs for anyone who genuinely and truly is being persecuted by their government. Mandate e-Verify across the board. Hire more immigration judges so that claims can be processed within days or weeks. I recognize that this requires Republican cooperation, which can't be counted on, but if the House were to bring up a bill that included this stuff, the Senate and Trump would have to publicly reject it, which after all their rhetoric about immigration, would be politically difficult for them to do. But the answer is NOT to jump hard left on immigration.

Democratic candidates and some of the Democrats on this thread need to realize that there are many, many people in the party who disagree with them on this. It is NOT racist or "Republican" or trolling to say that some of the policies that the Democratic candidates have proposed come functionally very close to open borders, and that the vast majority of this country does not want to open our borders to anyone poor person who wants to come. And for people who disagree that many of the Democrats are advocating for open borders (without actually using the term) - please explain how decriminalizing illegal entry, releasing most "asylum" seekers into the country while they wait years for their hearings and allowing them to work, providing free public education and healthcare while they are in the country, stopping deportations of those who "only" don't show up to their immigration hearings, and advocating a path to citizenship for ALL undocumented immigrants doesn't equal open borders.

Like PPs have said, I will be voting for Klobuchar.

NOBODY WANTS OPEN BORDERS. You're pushing a GOP strawman. Shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

Wanting to curb illegal immigration doesn't automatically mean one is xenophobic. Ask many legal immigrants and you might be surprised.

I’m a legal immigrant who followed the rules. I had relatives who could not come to the US and ended up in Germany instead.

Why did they need to follow the rules? Maybe they should have gotten a fight to Mexico and crossed the border illegally? Seems this is the behavior we are encouraging!!!!

DP. Also a legal immigrant who followed the rules and jumped through all the hoops and whose career was hampered by the interminable visa and green card wait.


I can't bring my elderly parents here to live with me because health care is unaffordable for them. Even when my mom visits on her 6-month visa that I had to pay $$ for and then $$$ to extend, CBP routinely detains her in secondary for several hours with no explanation (this was under Obama--she hasn't come to visit under Trump) before letting her finally come in. The last time this happened I was commiserating with another immigrant at Dulles who was in the same boat as me, waiting for her mom to come out of secondary, and she was just incensed about the Dem position on ilegal immigration. And that was before Dems jumped the shark.

I also have friends from other places (mostly India) who have been here for 15 years and are still waiting for their green card.

I have to vote against Trump, obviously, but I feel that the Democratic party has lost me.

Why do you have to vote against Trump? Honest question and I'm not trying to be snarky, but would like to understand.

I didn't vote for Trump, and would never have thought that I would. But, I don't think he's doing a terrible job as President.

Is it because Trump is a jerk? Fair enough, but aren't a lot of politicians jerks? Do you ever do business with people who you dislike - maybe car salesmen, family some family members?

DH and I are immigrants, but not Latino and not Muslim, so the Democratic party has established that they don't care about our votes, IMO. DH is not convinced about voting for Trump, but I certainly am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a citizen who fled a Communist country to get here legally.

What we are trending to is not Communism, but this type of Socialist behavior where the govt provides all the services including healthcare to the people does not work. You eventually run out of money and the system falls apart as it did in the Soviet Union where I am from. Sad to see this country trending the same way.

A govt with too much control breeds even more corruption.

The USSR didn’t fall apart because it provided healthcare to its citizens. It fell apart because it did not produce goods that anyone wanted to buy, and the economy was weak. There are many reasons to dislike the old country but the robust social safety system it offered to the citizenry is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

“NOBODY WANTS OPEN BORDERS. You're pushing a GOP strawman. Shame.”

Maybe not literally open but near about.

Castro is getting all kinds of applause for pushing this idea of turning coming here without permission and just deciding you will stay into a minor offense - and most of the stage agreed with him Thursday.

Many also said let’s give people here illegally free health insurance.

And many Dems are opposing the reasonable idea of not qualifying for asylum in most cases if you have passed up multiple countries to get here rather than getting away from the country where someone is persecuting you and into a different one.

Another idea that got a lot of traction was not deporting people so long as they illegally show up here and then keep their nose clean.

So- unless you decide to commit a major crime like rape or murder sure sounds a lot like anyone around the world can just up and decide they plan to live in the US with virtually no disincentive to doing so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you for whom immigration is your #1 issue -- what exactly is it that bothers you so much?

I am SO much more bothered by the idea that our country is caging children. And I dearly hope there are more voters like me than there are children of immigrants (all of you) rushing to slam shut the door to freedom and opportunity.

If we had proper border controls, we wouldn't be in charge of those children. We wouldn't have unaccompanied minors entering our country when we weren't prepared to take over care for them. We wouldn't have concerns about children being trafficked and needing to separate them from the adults they are with. We would be able to turn away people with criminal records before they entered our country, so we wouldn't need to separate them from their children in order to deal with how we're required to handle adults and children differently.

I agree that "kids in cages" is terrible. The way to handle it is to control our borders so we're not forced into situations we're not prepared for. Other countries do not essentially set up refugee camps within their borders for people attempting to enter illegally. Border controls happen at the border. People wait to enter.

Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior, and establishing control is going to be challenging and painful. If we want a robust safety net, including some form of single payer health care, and I think we do, we cannot have open borders. If we're willing to forgo a robust safety net, then open borders might work.

If all we do is cry about "kids in cages" and not how we got here and what all of the causes are, we can guarantee ourselves this same conversation until the US is in a similar situation as our southern neighbors (difficulty handling influx of needy people, lower standards of living, more crime and dissatisfaction with possibilities, more desire for economic migration by citizens), and Canada starts having this conversation and we wail and moan about those meanies maintaining their border.

Not one word about mandatory e-verify from you or the conman or the GOP. Why not? Are you worried employers like trump may never be able to hire illegals with mandatory e-verify?

Since you have trouble reading, I'll pull it out for you:
"Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior"

All of our politicians have failed on this. If you think it's just the Dems or just the GOP, you are a useful idiot. Both parties have had multiple opportunities to prevent where we are now, and they have both failed terribly, and they're being very successful at winding you up and pointing you in the direction they want.

Who is in power now ? Who had full control of government for 2 years? Why wasn’t anything done about e-verify?

Keep looking at problems as snapshots in time, and not a complex series of actions (and lack thereof) and good luck solving any of them.

I agree the GOP is failing now. And the Dems failed earlier. And if everyone keeps looking only when they feel "they other" should be fixing it, nothing will be solved.

This isn't a GOP problem or a Dem problem. This is a problem for our country. They have both failed to solve it, or even put good effort into fixing it. But sure go ahead. It's the GOPs fault. And we'll be back here in another 10 years where you claim the exact same thing, blissfully ignoring the periods of time when your party, or both parties together, could have done something.

You're a useful idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

The ugliness spewed by you and yours on a daily basis belies your claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you for whom immigration is your #1 issue -- what exactly is it that bothers you so much?

I am SO much more bothered by the idea that our country is caging children. And I dearly hope there are more voters like me than there are children of immigrants (all of you) rushing to slam shut the door to freedom and opportunity.

If we had proper border controls, we wouldn't be in charge of those children. We wouldn't have unaccompanied minors entering our country when we weren't prepared to take over care for them. We wouldn't have concerns about children being trafficked and needing to separate them from the adults they are with. We would be able to turn away people with criminal records before they entered our country, so we wouldn't need to separate them from their children in order to deal with how we're required to handle adults and children differently.

I agree that "kids in cages" is terrible. The way to handle it is to control our borders so we're not forced into situations we're not prepared for. Other countries do not essentially set up refugee camps within their borders for people attempting to enter illegally. Border controls happen at the border. People wait to enter.

Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior, and establishing control is going to be challenging and painful. If we want a robust safety net, including some form of single payer health care, and I think we do, we cannot have open borders. If we're willing to forgo a robust safety net, then open borders might work.

If all we do is cry about "kids in cages" and not how we got here and what all of the causes are, we can guarantee ourselves this same conversation until the US is in a similar situation as our southern neighbors (difficulty handling influx of needy people, lower standards of living, more crime and dissatisfaction with possibilities, more desire for economic migration by citizens), and Canada starts having this conversation and we wail and moan about those meanies maintaining their border.

Not one word about mandatory e-verify from you or the conman or the GOP. Why not? Are you worried employers like trump may never be able to hire illegals with mandatory e-verify?

Since you have trouble reading, I'll pull it out for you:
"Unfortunately, our politicians have repeatedly sabotaged our border controls and control of our interior"

All of our politicians have failed on this. If you think it's just the Dems or just the GOP, you are a useful idiot. Both parties have had multiple opportunities to prevent where we are now, and they have both failed terribly, and they're being very successful at winding you up and pointing you in the direction they want.

Who is in power now ? Who had full control of government for 2 years? Why wasn’t anything done about e-verify?

Keep looking at problems as snapshots in time, and not a complex series of actions (and lack thereof) and good luck solving any of them.

I agree the GOP is failing now. And the Dems failed earlier. And if everyone keeps looking only when they feel "they other" should be fixing it, nothing will be solved.

This isn't a GOP problem or a Dem problem. This is a problem for our country. They have both failed to solve it, or even put good effort into fixing it. But sure go ahead. It's the GOPs fault. And we'll be back here in another 10 years where you claim the exact same thing, blissfully ignoring the periods of time when your party, or both parties together, could have done something.

You're a useful idiot.

That’s the best post on this issue I have seen here. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

so many people who LOVE Godwin's Law!

You all should form an online forum. How many posts does it take BEFORE someone resurrects Godwin's Law?

Mike Godwin weighed in on this. He says it's appropriate to call these concentration camps.

Good for him
I disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're in a bubble of xenophobia. Immigrants are a net positive to the country; asylum is a fundamental human right; and democrats are demonstrably not against border controls.

We want more LEGAL immigrants. But nice try, PP.

Bans from Muslim countries and how many kids in concentration camps, kids whose parents were LEGALLY seeking refugee status suggests this is not actually the case.

The remains of the concentration camps are in Europe, my friend. Go see them.

so many people who LOVE Godwin's Law!

You all should form an online forum. How many posts does it take BEFORE someone resurrects Godwin's Law?

Mike Godwin weighed in on this. He says it's appropriate to call these concentration camps.

Good for him
I disagree.

DP

How can you call them concentration camps when the people voluntarily walked into them?

And, really, the comparison is offensive.

[Anonymous]

The major purpose of the concentration camps throughout history was to kill or intimidate the leaders of political, social, and cultural movements.

[Anonymous]

Dem here that’s not buying into this BS. If they stick to this mantra there will be a Republican President in 2021. Nice if Trump croaked by then though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Then we need to pass mandatory E-verify opposed by TRUMP and GOP because they love the businessmen to hire illegals. Who else will pay for their election expenses? If you stop the job spigot then we can manage the refugee issue.

I am trying to educate my myself about E-verify. The Wikipedia article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify

seems dated, but says that 16 mainly Republican states require some sort of E-verify, while three mainly Democratic state (California, Rhode Island, Illinois) *prohibit* the use of E-verify. Of course, there would be advantages to Federal E-verify but employment law has traditionally been a State issue.

Where have you seen that Trump and the GOP oppose Federal E-verify?

Of course, many jobs for illegal immigrants will continue even with E-verify. I know of house painters where the boss is a US citizen, but who hires illegal immigrants off the streets (at sub minimum wage) when he needs extra work for the day. There is no paperwork involved.