Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

How did you feel about not wanting to give them beds, PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind strict immigration enforcement. I DO mind our government being jackbooted thugs about it. Believe it or don't, strict enforcement of immigration laws and humane treatment of illegals are not mutually exclusive. It's sickeningly obvious that to the people who support this adminiatration's actions, treating illegals like they don't deserve basic human rights is a feature, not a bug.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.

I'm having trouble understanding your position. What are you actually proposing?

And do you realize that people who are denied entry for whatever reason can (and often do) just turn around and try to get in again the next day?

What is your definition of "humane treatment"? Do you realize that if there was absolutely no incentive to not try to do something illegal, you'd have literally half of the world lining up on the doorstep within a few weeks? You think anyone would want to live in India or China when they can live in the States? That's a couple of billion people right there.

I'm a legal immigrant. You can add me to the list that would have just walked in, if there were no consequences. I mean, why not? Why did I bother going through the application process, all the invasive questions, health screens and vaccine boosters, etc? I'd never break the rules so I may as well have just come here as a tourist and stayed. Right? Is that what you're saying? I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind strict immigration enforcement. I DO mind our government being jackbooted thugs about it. Believe it or don't, strict enforcement of immigration laws and humane treatment of illegals are not mutually exclusive. It's sickeningly obvious that to the people who support this adminiatration's actions, treating illegals like they don't deserve basic human rights is a feature, not a bug.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.

I'm having trouble understanding your position. What are you actually proposing?

And do you realize that people who are denied entry for whatever reason can (and often do) just turn around and try to get in again the next day?

What is your definition of "humane treatment"? Do you realize that if there was absolutely no incentive to not try to do something illegal, you'd have literally half of the world lining up on the doorstep within a few weeks? You think anyone would want to live in India or China when they can live in the States? That's a couple of billion people right there.

I'm a legal immigrant. You can add me to the list that would have just walked in, if there were no consequences. I mean, why not? Why did I bother going through the application process, all the invasive questions, health screens and vaccine boosters, etc? I'd never break the rules so I may as well have just come here as a tourist and stayed. Right? Is that what you're saying? I don't get it.

Are you advocating for the U.S. abusing detainees in order to scare others out of trying to enter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind strict immigration enforcement. I DO mind our government being jackbooted thugs about it. Believe it or don't, strict enforcement of immigration laws and humane treatment of illegals are not mutually exclusive. It's sickeningly obvious that to the people who support this adminiatration's actions, treating illegals like they don't deserve basic human rights is a feature, not a bug.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.

I'm having trouble understanding your position. What are you actually proposing?

And do you realize that people who are denied entry for whatever reason can (and often do) just turn around and try to get in again the next day?

What is your definition of "humane treatment"? Do you realize that if there was absolutely no incentive to not try to do something illegal, you'd have literally half of the world lining up on the doorstep within a few weeks? You think anyone would want to live in India or China when they can live in the States? That's a couple of billion people right there.

I'm a legal immigrant. You can add me to the list that would have just walked in, if there were no consequences. I mean, why not? Why did I bother going through the application process, all the invasive questions, health screens and vaccine boosters, etc? I'd never break the rules so I may as well have just come here as a tourist and stayed. Right? Is that what you're saying? I don't get it.

Are you advocating for the U.S. abusing detainees in order to scare others out of trying to enter?

You mean, what Obama and Biden did for 8 full years while no one gave a damn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind strict immigration enforcement. I DO mind our government being jackbooted thugs about it. Believe it or don't, strict enforcement of immigration laws and humane treatment of illegals are not mutually exclusive. It's sickeningly obvious that to the people who support this adminiatration's actions, treating illegals like they don't deserve basic human rights is a feature, not a bug.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.

I'm having trouble understanding your position. What are you actually proposing?

And do you realize that people who are denied entry for whatever reason can (and often do) just turn around and try to get in again the next day?

What is your definition of "humane treatment"? Do you realize that if there was absolutely no incentive to not try to do something illegal, you'd have literally half of the world lining up on the doorstep within a few weeks? You think anyone would want to live in India or China when they can live in the States? That's a couple of billion people right there.

I'm a legal immigrant. You can add me to the list that would have just walked in, if there were no consequences. I mean, why not? Why did I bother going through the application process, all the invasive questions, health screens and vaccine boosters, etc? I'd never break the rules so I may as well have just come here as a tourist and stayed. Right? Is that what you're saying? I don't get it.

Is it that hard to understand the concept of "humane treatment"? Sheesh. Let's talk about the bare minimum that we accord even animals in shelters -- and not taking any babies away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

Absolutely agree. I will also be basing my vote on this issue, as will millions of other Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:what happens others who want to come here, but just can't simply cross the border? is it fair to them?

The whole rhetoric behind democrats is that they want minority VOTES!!! They have no real solutions to anything, so in order to stay in power they need these votes. It is simple as that, however, as a minority i don't buy into their bs.

I don't care so much about the votes. I just tend to like the foreigners I meet better than the rural white people I meet. The latter tend to be so shrill. And their food is usually pretty terrible.

Perhaps you'd be happier in a country with fewer "rural white people"? What's stopping you from leaving?
-DP

Get bent. This is my country and those diabetic, Rascal-riding Trump supporters are ruining it.

Guess what? This is their country too and the people ruining it are you and your fellow imbeciles.

Nah. They're flying Confederate flags. Traitors.

Are they though? Every "rural white person" flies a Confederate flag? Only in your fevered imagination. Seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Twitter thread showing 2014 photos of detention center conditions.

https://twitter.com/brandondarby/status/1146045973535309825?s=20

But... but you can’t blame Trump for it. So, of course, dcum won’t be interested.

+1
Wow, that should be publicized everywhere. But as you point out, liberals aren't interested unless they can blame Trump. Such hypocrites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

Absolutely agree. I will also be basing my vote on this issue, as will millions of other Americans.

ok, just don't claim to be a democrat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes, the blame

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

Well said. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

My grandparents sold their house and moved when black people started moving into the neighborhood. My grandparents were huge racists. I mean they justified it to themselves with similar rationales about schools and crime and how the black people were deficient in one way or another. But, it really just boiled down to them not wanting to live with and near black people.

DP. You are an idiot. That is all. Also - where do *your* kids go to school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too.

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own. It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s. However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx, Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts. My family didn't have it easy coming over. Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling. I see it in the school system. We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts. You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same. I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me. When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right? b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty. My father barely had a home; it was crumbling. Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S. (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want! You don't speak for all of us. And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020.

How were your parents able to immigrate?

Dad and my grandfather worked. They saved money, hopped on a boat & came through Ellis Island. They rented an apartment in PG County and worked as stonemasons. When they saved up enough money, they brought the others over - grandmother, aunts & uncle. My father & uncle served in WWII.

Eventually, their business grew and they parted ways, each opening up his own business.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

They helped each other and bc they were honest & talented, their businesses grew.

Immigration doesn’t work that way anymore.

really?

It worked that way for my nanny (El Salvador). It worked that way for my friend's husband (Italy). . . for my neighbor (Russia) . . . for my niece's boyfriend (Ireland)

No one says it's an easy process, and based on what little I know, it could be simplified. But again, if there's a will, there's a way.

Really, so all they had to do was find the resources to get themselves to the U.S. border and then they were allowed in? Because that’s exactly what’s happening at our southern border, people are finding the resources to make it to the border, except they’re not being allowed in.

What you described is essentially how our immigration system used to work, and it is how an awful lot of our ancestors got here - if you could afford the ticket, you were in. But the system has fundamentally changed now, and the majority of people who immigrated 100 years ago would not be allowed into the country today.

+1. Of course the cons are completely ignoring this because it doesn’t fit their rhetoric.

rhetoric?

lol

This is MY story. I'm uplifted by their success and I share in their successes.

So you can try to slap me down, but hon, rhetoric is argument. Argument is based on perspective. We'll agree to disagree b/c I'm for LEGAL immigration - and a lot of patience. And guess what? If ANY of you morons tried to pull this stunt in any other country, you'd be sent away.

ridiculous excuses

no thanks

So your response to people who cannot qualify to immigrate to the US through no fault of their own is, “sucks to be you, I got mine”?

DP, but, um, yes. The U.S. now has immigration laws because it's become a first-world country with a safety net and public benefits that cost taxpayers money, such as public schools. So no, you can't just immigrate by showing up at the border. This is a rich and relatively safe country, so there are more people who want to immigrate here than we can or should admit. Comments like this are why people are accusing Democrats of wanting open borders (and I am one).

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

Immigration doesn’t have to be discriminatory in nature, those are your own morals and values speaking, not some natural law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.