Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

Look guys, someone posted a graphic with a green checkmark. The discussion's over. We can all go home now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

Ellis Island was a point of entry, but prior to 1924, there were very few immigration restrictions. If illegal immigration has such terrible impacts, why do states with more illegal immigrants have stronger economies? California, Texas and MD have much stronger economies than say, Alabama or Arkansas.

And yeah, miss me with your claims that you are SO SAD about the lack of affordable housing for African Americans. You would be screeching here about how terrible it is that your neighborhood has "changed" if they started to build truly affordable housing or even touched single family zoning in the slightest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

Ellis Island was a point of entry, but prior to 1924, there were very few immigration restrictions. If illegal immigration has such terrible impacts, why do states with more illegal immigrants have stronger economies? California, Texas and MD have much stronger economies than say, Alabama or Arkansas.

And yeah, miss me with your claims that you are SO SAD about the lack of affordable housing for African Americans. You would be screeching here about how terrible it is that your neighborhood has "changed" if they started to build truly affordable housing or even touched single family zoning in the slightest.

lol

Here's a list of per capita income: https://www.statista.com/statistics/303555/us-per-capita-personal-income/

MA is the 18th most diverse state in the U. S. CT is "better," as it's ranked at 14. So here's what you fail to examine with your diversity = strength statement. California has the tech world, Hollywood and some of the richest people in the country. So it's a "No sh*t, Sherlock" comparison. And while I haven't done research, I bet CT, again - ranked at 14, has quite a few educated legal immigrants who are making lots and lots of money.

Your point is over the top inane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

Ellis Island was a point of entry, but prior to 1924, there were very few immigration restrictions. If illegal immigration has such terrible impacts, why do states with more illegal immigrants have stronger economies? California, Texas and MD have much stronger economies than say, Alabama or Arkansas.

And yeah, miss me with your claims that you are SO SAD about the lack of affordable housing for African Americans. You would be screeching here about how terrible it is that your neighborhood has "changed" if they started to build truly affordable housing or even touched single family zoning in the slightest.

Since you brought up CA and TX, you should go read the Economist's special report in last week's issue about Texafornia.
There's a continuing, massive exodus of middle and upper middle class people from CA, where the level of inequality now surpasses that of Mexico. Part of that of course is due to the concentration of wealth in Silicon Valley compared to the rest of the state. However, Hispanics are the largest ethnic group in the state, and more than half of them live in poverty. The child poverty rate in CA is something like 43%. Such a concentration of poverty at the bottom sure has an impact on the Gini coefficient. CA has the highest state income tax rate in the country to fund its social programs, and as a result, the people who pay those taxes are leaving.

It would be one thing to welcome massive numbers of uneducated people if we were still living in a largely agrarian society where the overall level of education was low, no matter one's socio-economic level, and where manual labor and a lot of hard work were enough to get ahead. But nowadays we live in a quasi winner-take-all economy where most of the returns go to people with very high levels of education. Now go spend some time in a school around here in one of these small remedial reading classes (usually one teacher for half a dozen kids, or sometimes a teacher AND an aide to manage behaviors) and watch 13-year olds who are reading at the 1st to 4th grade level and are much more interested in taking selfies or working on their "professional gaming" career than in learning to read. What is your solution for improving their performance and ensuring they're not condemned to generational poverty? (Remember, don't say "tax the rich". The rich will leave.)


--highly educated, legal immigrant from a "shithole" country

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

Ellis Island was a point of entry, but prior to 1924, there were very few immigration restrictions. If illegal immigration has such terrible impacts, why do states with more illegal immigrants have stronger economies? California, Texas and MD have much stronger economies than say, Alabama or Arkansas.

And yeah, miss me with your claims that you are SO SAD about the lack of affordable housing for African Americans. You would be screeching here about how terrible it is that your neighborhood has "changed" if they started to build truly affordable housing or even touched single family zoning in the slightest.

Since you brought up CA and TX, you should go read the Economist's special report in last week's issue about Texafornia.
There's a continuing, massive exodus of middle and upper middle class people from CA, where the level of inequality now surpasses that of Mexico. Part of that of course is due to the concentration of wealth in Silicon Valley compared to the rest of the state. However, Hispanics are the largest ethnic group in the state, and more than half of them live in poverty. The child poverty rate in CA is something like 43%. Such a concentration of poverty at the bottom sure has an impact on the Gini coefficient. CA has the highest state income tax rate in the country to fund its social programs, and as a result, the people who pay those taxes are leaving.

It would be one thing to welcome massive numbers of uneducated people if we were still living in a largely agrarian society where the overall level of education was low, no matter one's socio-economic level, and where manual labor and a lot of hard work were enough to get ahead. But nowadays we live in a quasi winner-take-all economy where most of the returns go to people with very high levels of education. Now go spend some time in a school around here in one of these small remedial reading classes (usually one teacher for half a dozen kids, or sometimes a teacher AND an aide to manage behaviors) and watch 13-year olds who are reading at the 1st to 4th grade level and are much more interested in taking selfies or working on their "professional gaming" career than in learning to read. What is your solution for improving their performance and ensuring they're not condemned to generational poverty? (Remember, don't say "tax the rich". The rich will leave.)


--highly educated, legal immigrant from a "shithole" country

Lying pos fareed plagiarizikah recently said that he agreed with the pres that illegal immigration is a problem.
This policy will sink any democrat who will not vow to stop illegal immigration. It will be over

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

Why do you keep making nonsensical comments? Who said anything about you not having a right to your opinion? We all have opinions, which is why it's going to be a hot button issue in 2020 - even if you deny that fact.

You criticized my opinion on the grounds that it didn’t afford sufficient deference to U.S. immigration laws. I am not obligated to give deference to existing immigration laws in my political opinions, I can hold whatever opinion I like.

No, dope. Your critical reading skills need work. I don't care what your opinion of US immigration law is. I was referring to all other countries and the respect we give them regarding their immigration law. Yet that *deference* (there's that pesky word again) is not returned when it comes to OUR laws.

If you didn’t intend to respond to my comment, then perhaps you shouldn’t have quoted it.

You are confused. Goodbye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This analysis of economic contributions and tax outlays is great for rational decision making, but I don't think that's really at the heart of the strong feelings on immigration -- any more than I ever believed Tea Partiers were ever really concerned about deficits and tax policy. (I also don't truly believe it's an abiding concern over law & order that's the real motivator. They wouldn't be happy if we had the same number of immigrants even if 100% of them were coming here legally.)

These are cultural reactions. Maybe it's racism, but I don't necessarily want to tar people with that epithet. I disagree with the loudest voices about immigration. At some visceral level, they believe that people who don't look or sound like them means the death of America. I think they're wrong about that, but I can't begrudge them their love of country. I love the country too, but I have a very different idea of what America means -- for me, what this country is about has very little to do with language and lineage.

For me, it's about a place -- if you're working hard and treating others well or at least leaving them alone -- where (as Pink Floyd put it) "no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door." It's a place where you can rise or fail according to your own merit. You can practice the religion of your choice or no religion at all without the government hassling you about it. That kind of stuff.

I like the bold. Ellis Island was controlled. Illegal immigration has unequal impacts around this country. Maryland somewhat recognizes local jurisdiction impacts but neither federal or state fund the issue. Hence MOCO diverting cash to schools from retirement funds - unwilling to increase property taxes.


Virginia as a state ignores the impact in funding formulas and the fed are something quietly and gently asked but to do so vigorously is against party line. Fairfax raises property related taxes to meet the local costs resulting from illegal immigration. And here's an article on DC needing replacement affordable housing - 770m. African Americans? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-officials-want-to-demolish-or-renovate-14-of-the-citys-worst-public-housing-complexes/2019/07/02/5c25fc0c-9cf2-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?utm_term=.8b96f446d03c

4.5billion plus for border and non-USA citizens. Do the math. Money is money and I'd rather it go to DC affordable housing for US citizens.

Ellis Island was a point of entry, but prior to 1924, there were very few immigration restrictions. If illegal immigration has such terrible impacts, why do states with more illegal immigrants have stronger economies? California, Texas and MD have much stronger economies than say, Alabama or Arkansas.

And yeah, miss me with your claims that you are SO SAD about the lack of affordable housing for African Americans. You would be screeching here about how terrible it is that your neighborhood has "changed" if they started to build truly affordable housing or even touched single family zoning in the slightest.

Since you brought up CA and TX, you should go read the Economist's special report in last week's issue about Texafornia.
There's a continuing, massive exodus of middle and upper middle class people from CA, where the level of inequality now surpasses that of Mexico. Part of that of course is due to the concentration of wealth in Silicon Valley compared to the rest of the state. However, Hispanics are the largest ethnic group in the state, and more than half of them live in poverty. The child poverty rate in CA is something like 43%. Such a concentration of poverty at the bottom sure has an impact on the Gini coefficient. CA has the highest state income tax rate in the country to fund its social programs, and as a result, the people who pay those taxes are leaving.

It would be one thing to welcome massive numbers of uneducated people if we were still living in a largely agrarian society where the overall level of education was low, no matter one's socio-economic level, and where manual labor and a lot of hard work were enough to get ahead. But nowadays we live in a quasi winner-take-all economy where most of the returns go to people with very high levels of education. Now go spend some time in a school around here in one of these small remedial reading classes (usually one teacher for half a dozen kids, or sometimes a teacher AND an aide to manage behaviors) and watch 13-year olds who are reading at the 1st to 4th grade level and are much more interested in taking selfies or working on their "professional gaming" career than in learning to read. What is your solution for improving their performance and ensuring they're not condemned to generational poverty? (Remember, don't say "tax the rich". The rich will leave.)


--highly educated, legal immigrant from a "shithole" country

Well said! Perhaps the best post yet.

[Anonymous]

This is true, I live in CA and ppl are leaving, mostly due to housing costs, then lack of value for money overall (it costs a fortune to rent or buy in a good school district; affordable ones are only good due to high level of Asian students and their good scores). Taxes, too. Everyone is tired of paying for the homeless, illegal, poor, etc.
Basically the only ppl who like it here are millennials hopeful for a career; but even they leave as soon as they want a family and get a job elsewhere.