Great article: "Democrats are in a Bubble on Immigration"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

Absolutely agree. I will also be basing my vote on this issue, as will millions of other Americans.

ok, just don't claim to be a democrat.

Sorry, what? Where did I claim to be a Democrat? I used to be, for sure. But that was back when I was young and stupid. I'd be mortified to call myself a Dem these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

Why do you keep making nonsensical comments? Who said anything about you not having a right to your opinion? We all have opinions, which is why it's going to be a hot button issue in 2020 - even if you deny that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

Absolutely agree. I will also be basing my vote on this issue, as will millions of other Americans.

ok, just don't claim to be a democrat.

Sorry, what? Where did I claim to be a Democrat? I used to be, for sure. But that was back when I was young and stupid. I'd be mortified to call myself a Dem these days.

Good, we wouldn’t want to be associated with a bigot like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

Why do you keep making nonsensical comments? Who said anything about you not having a right to your opinion? We all have opinions, which is why it's going to be a hot button issue in 2020 - even if you deny that fact.

You criticized my opinion on the grounds that it didn’t afford sufficient deference to U.S. immigration laws. I am not obligated to give deference to existing immigration laws in my political opinions, I can hold whatever opinion I like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do you even have a college degree? if you have, you better get a refund. Gang wars have been happening throughout human history. White supremacy gangs, Italian mafia, Russian gangs, black gangs, Hispanic hangs etc etc.

America is a country of 330 milllion, what happens in small school is not representative of the country. That’s why data makes sense, not anecdotes. Data suggests what you are describing is an exception and not the rule. You have no credibility because you are trying hard to extrapolate and exception case into a everyday rule case. It’s not gonna work, fortunately there are enough educated Americans.

Actually it did already work when Trump was elected, you know. You are still blind to the anger people feel when someone "educated" tells them their individual situation is irrelevant, the pain they feel is irrelevant, their personal struggles are irrelevant because "big global trends" show something different.

+1 million

I don't care what your 'data' says. When my standard of living is being lowered due to illegal immigration, it becomes an issue for me. And, many like me. Educated and not.

+2,000,000

Yes yes yes.

How is your standard of living being lowered "due to illegal immigration." I would actual facts and examples, please. Not talking points.

Have you been conveniently skipping posts that have already laid out these facts and examples? Too painful for you to hear about the overcrowded schools full of kids who don't speak English, whose needs come before kids of American citizens? How about the neighborhoods with multiple families of illegal immigrants crowding into houses and lowering the value of said neighborhoods? Shall I continue? If you can't keep up with the thread, perhaps you should simply do some googling of your own.

This

I’m the PP who posted about how illegal immigration affects my kids and my community in a daily basis. Why is that unimportant to the a Democrats? It’s important enough to me that i’ll be basing my vote on it for the next election. And call me xenophobic and uneducated all you want. IRL, I’m not White and I have an advanced degree. Not that it should matter anyway. Educated or not, people have a right to their opinions.

Absolutely agree. I will also be basing my vote on this issue, as will millions of other Americans.

ok, just don't claim to be a democrat.

Sorry, what? Where did I claim to be a Democrat? I used to be, for sure. But that was back when I was young and stupid. I'd be mortified to call myself a Dem these days.

Good, we wouldn’t want to be associated with a bigot like you.

Just in case anyone was wondering why I'm no longer a Democrat ^^^.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

Why do you keep making nonsensical comments? Who said anything about you not having a right to your opinion? We all have opinions, which is why it's going to be a hot button issue in 2020 - even if you deny that fact.

You criticized my opinion on the grounds that it didn’t afford sufficient deference to U.S. immigration laws. I am not obligated to give deference to existing immigration laws in my political opinions, I can hold whatever opinion I like.

No, dope. Your critical reading skills need work. I don't care what your opinion of US immigration law is. I was referring to all other countries and the respect we give them regarding their immigration law. Yet that *deference* (there's that pesky word again) is not returned when it comes to OUR laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country is due to the fact that those people have absolutely no way to get here legally. If you’re an impoverished person from Guatemala who fears for your family’s safety if you stay there, you have zero incentive under the current system not to try to enter the US illegally. Best case, you make it across and as long as you avoid attracting attention, you get to stay. Worst case, you’re caught along at some point and are either denied entry or deported, in which case you’re no worse off than you were before. If there were a system where by you could enter a lottery or something, but only so long as you had no previously immigration violations, the prospect of getting full legal status in the US might incentivize some people to stay put in the hopes that their number is drawn.

Interesting lottery idea.

You're seriously late to the party, PPs.

https://gt.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/diversity-visa-program/

That’s not the same, not by a long-shot. First, the program specifically excludes people from certain countries, including Colombia, El Salvador, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Peru. Second, you have to meet a work/education requirement, either a high school diploma or the equivalent, or at least two years work experience in the past five years in a position that requires at least two years training/experience to perform. Taken together, these requirements exclude a substantial majority of people immigrating illegally into the U.S.

I don't think you understand that immigration law is exclusionary and discriminatory in nature. Immigration is not a right. If you don't have family in the U.S., an employer wiling to sponsor you, skills important enough to qualify for a national interest waiver, or meet some other criteria, you are not getting in. Some people can get in, and some don't. There was never any pretense of aspiring to equality in immigration law, and that's how it should be. Every country decides who gets in and who doesn't.

THIS. And every country is afforded deference with regard to their immigration laws - every country except, apparently, the US.

As an American, I am fully within my rights to have an opinion on my country’s immigration system.

Why do you keep making nonsensical comments? Who said anything about you not having a right to your opinion? We all have opinions, which is why it's going to be a hot button issue in 2020 - even if you deny that fact.

You criticized my opinion on the grounds that it didn’t afford sufficient deference to U.S. immigration laws. I am not obligated to give deference to existing immigration laws in my political opinions, I can hold whatever opinion I like.

No, dope. Your critical reading skills need work. I don't care what your opinion of US immigration law is. I was referring to all other countries and the respect we give them regarding their immigration law. Yet that *deference* (there's that pesky word again) is not returned when it comes to OUR laws.

If you didn’t intend to respond to my comment, then perhaps you shouldn’t have quoted it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

My grandparents sold their house and moved when black people started moving into the neighborhood. My grandparents were huge racists. I mean they justified it to themselves with similar rationales about schools and crime and how the black people were deficient in one way or another. But, it really just boiled down to them not wanting to live with and near black people.

That's your grandparents, not me. My family is black and brown. I still live in the same community, different school district. Eat, shop, and live with the same people as the other neighborhood. Your grandparents didn't do that. How can you not understand the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

My grandparents sold their house and moved when black people started moving into the neighborhood. My grandparents were huge racists. I mean they justified it to themselves with similar rationales about schools and crime and how the black people were deficient in one way or another. But, it really just boiled down to them not wanting to live with and near black people.

That's your grandparents, not me. My family is black and brown. I still live in the same community, different school district. Eat, shop, and live with the same people as the other neighborhood. Your grandparents didn't do that. How can you not understand the difference?

DP. At least pp’s grandparents were honest about what they were doing. You put up a pretense of being part of the community, but you’ve removed your children from it because ultimately you think you’re too good for those neighbors. You’ll slum it in their coffee shops, safe in the knowledge that you’re superior.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not just an opinion. I chose to sell my house due to high influx of undocumented immigrant children in my local school AND the lack of enforcement of various local laws in my neighborhood. The local school did not receive adequate funding, test scores were really bad, and my neighbors were quickly selling their houses. I stayed for 10 years after the first people started moving out. I meet with the local school board, offered to take two weeks off and volunteer in the local school 2 years before my child reached kindergarten, and finally sat on my front steps and cried when I realized that I needed to sell the house. I wanted a good public education for my kid, not a religious private education (didn't get enough financial aid for the other privates). When I chose to buy again, my new house is less than 1/4 mile from the old one. Same community, but better schools. BTW, you might even mistake my child for one of the children living in a detention center.

We need to have an honest discussion about our immigration system and concrete answers.

My grandparents sold their house and moved when black people started moving into the neighborhood. My grandparents were huge racists. I mean they justified it to themselves with similar rationales about schools and crime and how the black people were deficient in one way or another. But, it really just boiled down to them not wanting to live with and near black people.

That's your grandparents, not me. My family is black and brown. I still live in the same community, different school district. Eat, shop, and live with the same people as the other neighborhood. Your grandparents didn't do that. How can you not understand the difference?

DP. At least pp’s grandparents were honest about what they were doing. You put up a pretense of being part of the community, but you’ve removed your children from it because ultimately you think you’re too good for those neighbors. You’ll slum it in their coffee shops, safe in the knowledge that you’re superior.

You must be white. Coffee shops? Where do you live that you think that socializing with POC people involves a coffee shop? Shaw? NoMA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind strict immigration enforcement. I DO mind our government being jackbooted thugs about it. Believe it or don't, strict enforcement of immigration laws and humane treatment of illegals are not mutually exclusive. It's sickeningly obvious that to the people who support this adminiatration's actions, treating illegals like they don't deserve basic human rights is a feature, not a bug.

November 2020 can't come soon enough.

I'm having trouble understanding your position. What are you actually proposing?

And do you realize that people who are denied entry for whatever reason can (and often do) just turn around and try to get in again the next day?

What is your definition of "humane treatment"? Do you realize that if there was absolutely no incentive to not try to do something illegal, you'd have literally half of the world lining up on the doorstep within a few weeks? You think anyone would want to live in India or China when they can live in the States? That's a couple of billion people right there.

I'm a legal immigrant. You can add me to the list that would have just walked in, if there were no consequences. I mean, why not? Why did I bother going through the application process, all the invasive questions, health screens and vaccine boosters, etc? I'd never break the rules so I may as well have just come here as a tourist and stayed. Right? Is that what you're saying? I don't get it.

Are you advocating for the U.S. abusing detainees in order to scare others out of trying to enter?

You mean, what Obama and Biden did for 8 full years while no one gave a damn?

This is just a bunch of BS. The current situation has no precedent. And separating families to the extent the Border Patrol is now, has no precedent. But even more importantly, if this type of abuse bothered you then, it should bother you now. Stop with the endless whataboutism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And what on earth does this justify?!

[Anonymous]

“DP. At least pp’s grandparents were honest about what they were doing. You put up a pretense of being part of the community, but you’ve removed your children from it because ultimately you think you’re too good for those neighbors. You’ll slum it in their coffee shops, safe in the knowledge that you’re superior.”

Let me guess. You live somewhere like Chevy chase or Bethesda while preaching at Pp?