Stats it takes for a student to get into Stanford, Harvard, Princeton & Yale (2018)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New viral tweet. White girl with 29 on the ACT (converted), better AP scores, 5 on the toughest AP exam, dual enrolled college credits...can't even get into one of the UC System colleges:

"Its official! After maintaining a 4.3 gpa throughout high school, receiving a 1370 SAT score, a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam, A's in 3 college English courses, and countless late nights studying, I am proud to announce that I will not be attending literally any UC I applied to."

I guess she's not "unique" enough.

https://twitter.com/manduhmia/status/979552096293871617

Her SAT score is low for engineering.

[Anonymous]

Good for the underprivileged kids who got it. This is a life-changing opportunity for them.

I know my kids don’t have a chance to attend the same top schools that I did, but they already have a huge leg up so they will be fine wherever they land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So affluent kids should be ineligible for Rhodes, Marshall, and Truman scholarships?

I don't think the poster is saying that. All this post is about is collecting. Once your first choice makes you an offer you want to take, it is time to stop making it a contest.

But how will I get an interview on CNN then?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

The black kid with the 1540 was probably one of the top 10 AA kids in the country stats wise. He's going to get in anywhere he applies.

Yes, a black kid with a score of 1540 will most likely get in anywhere. About 1000 black kids scored over 1500 on the SAT. https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

From the article at most 1000 blacks scored above 750 on the math. Scoring above 750 on the verbal is harder, and scoring above 750 on both is much harder still. Combine that with being 3rd in his class. Top 10 is too low, but it I'll bet this kid is in the top 100. I remember looking at ACT scores a few years back and there were less than a hundred AA kids who scored 34 or above.

I’m AA and scored above 750 on verbal (not close in math, tho). I wonder how many of these 1000 AA kids tend to apply to competitive colleges? I did not apply to any mainstream competitive schools, and had no such guidance to do so—never met with guidance counselor, and parents didn’t offer much guidance at the time about specific schools. Ended up attending an HBCU near home on a full ride; went on to obtain a PhD. I know other kids with similarly strong stats who also attended HBCUs, some of whom turned down other strong schools to attend (e.g., Duke).

If this holds for AA kids with high SAT scores these days (i.e., that a subset won’t apply to competitive PWI schools), I’d imagine the ones that do apply are in pretty high demand.

[Anonymous]

The biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies have been white females. So it's the white female applicant pool that is harming the white male applicant pool the most in college applications. Yes, there are a few slots taken up by URM's that could have gone elsewhere but they are not the reason most white and Asian kids are getting the short end of the stick in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

The black kid with the 1540 was probably one of the top 10 AA kids in the country stats wise. He's going to get in anywhere he applies.

Yes, a black kid with a score of 1540 will most likely get in anywhere. About 1000 black kids scored over 1500 on the SAT. https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

From the article at most 1000 blacks scored above 750 on the math. Scoring above 750 on the verbal is harder, and scoring above 750 on both is much harder still. Combine that with being 3rd in his class. Top 10 is too low, but it I'll bet this kid is in the top 100. I remember looking at ACT scores a few years back and there were less than a hundred AA kids who scored 34 or above.

I’m AA and scored above 750 on verbal (not close in math, tho). I wonder how many of these 1000 AA kids tend to apply to competitive colleges? I did not apply to any mainstream competitive schools, and had no such guidance to do so—never met with guidance counselor, and parents didn’t offer much guidance at the time about specific schools. Ended up attending an HBCU near home on a full ride; went on to obtain a PhD. I know other kids with similarly strong stats who also attended HBCUs, some of whom turned down other strong schools to attend (e.g., Duke).

If this holds for AA kids with high SAT scores these days (i.e., that a subset won’t apply to competitive PWI schools), I’d imagine the ones that do apply are in pretty high demand.

Yes they are. And they should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies have been white females. So it's the white female applicant pool that is harming the white male applicant pool the most in college applications. Yes, there are a few slots taken up by URM's that could have gone elsewhere but they are not the reason most white and Asian kids are getting the short end of the stick in college admissions.

I'm male and I have to say, "what the hell are you talking about?" Girls typically have better grades in HS. The only place that will sees lower standards for girls is athletics due to Title 9 and some engineering schools trying to "improve" the sex ratio of their enrolling class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies have been white females. So it's the white female applicant pool that is harming the white male applicant pool the most in college applications. Yes, there are a few slots taken up by URM's that could have gone elsewhere but they are not the reason most white and Asian kids are getting the short end of the stick in college admissions.

What are you talking about? Except for tech and engineering departments, there are far more female applicants than male and it requires much higher scores for a female to be admitted. They are the least advantaged group (females that is, Asian females most of all.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

The black kid with the 1540 was probably one of the top 10 AA kids in the country stats wise. He's going to get in anywhere he applies.

Yes, a black kid with a score of 1540 will most likely get in anywhere. About 1000 black kids scored over 1500 on the SAT. https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

From the article at most 1000 blacks scored above 750 on the math. Scoring above 750 on the verbal is harder, and scoring above 750 on both is much harder still. Combine that with being 3rd in his class. Top 10 is too low, but it I'll bet this kid is in the top 100. I remember looking at ACT scores a few years back and there were less than a hundred AA kids who scored 34 or above.

I’m AA and scored above 750 on verbal (not close in math, tho). I wonder how many of these 1000 AA kids tend to apply to competitive colleges? I did not apply to any mainstream competitive schools, and had no such guidance to do so—never met with guidance counselor, and parents didn’t offer much guidance at the time about specific schools. Ended up attending an HBCU near home on a full ride; went on to obtain a PhD. I know other kids with similarly strong stats who also attended HBCUs, some of whom turned down other strong schools to attend (e.g., Duke).

If this holds for AA kids with high SAT scores these days (i.e., that a subset won’t apply to competitive PWI schools), I’d imagine the ones that do apply are in pretty high demand.

There are more high achieving AA kids out there but they don't apply to competitive schools. It is a concept called undermatching. Lots of studies about it floating around. Programs like Questbridge and the Posse Foundation try to serve as a pipeline to identify not just kids of color but poor and first-gen students and match those kids with top schools. Most of these kids have no clue about their potential. What you see happening is that the Ivy League and other schools are getting better about finding those kids and that's why we see more kids of color going to those schools every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

The black kid with the 1540 was probably one of the top 10 AA kids in the country stats wise. He's going to get in anywhere he applies.

Yes, a black kid with a score of 1540 will most likely get in anywhere. About 1000 black kids scored over 1500 on the SAT. https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

From the article at most 1000 blacks scored above 750 on the math. Scoring above 750 on the verbal is harder, and scoring above 750 on both is much harder still. Combine that with being 3rd in his class. Top 10 is too low, but it I'll bet this kid is in the top 100. I remember looking at ACT scores a few years back and there were less than a hundred AA kids who scored 34 or above.

I’m AA and scored above 750 on verbal (not close in math, tho). I wonder how many of these 1000 AA kids tend to apply to competitive colleges? I did not apply to any mainstream competitive schools, and had no such guidance to do so—never met with guidance counselor, and parents didn’t offer much guidance at the time about specific schools. Ended up attending an HBCU near home on a full ride; went on to obtain a PhD. I know other kids with similarly strong stats who also attended HBCUs, some of whom turned down other strong schools to attend (e.g., Duke).

If this holds for AA kids with high SAT scores these days (i.e., that a subset won’t apply to competitive PWI schools), I’d imagine the ones that do apply are in pretty high demand.

There are more high achieving AA kids out there but they don't apply to competitive schools. It is a concept called undermatching. Lots of studies about it floating around. Programs like Questbridge and the Posse Foundation try to serve as a pipeline to identify not just kids of color but poor and first-gen students and match those kids with top schools. Most of these kids have no clue about their potential. What you see happening is that the Ivy League and other schools are getting better about finding those kids and that's why we see more kids of color going to those schools every year.

PP here. Interesting. A lot of high-achieving AA kids I knew in college really wanted to attend an HBCU due to family traditions of attending, etc. I’m sure undermatching also plays into things, due to things like concerns about debt, an expectation that some kids stay close to home to help out family, and simply being steered to lower performing schools by high school counselors—I’ve definitely heard of this too. I know Ben Jealous encouraged more AAs to apply to Ivies when he was NAACP President, so yes, perhaps the trend is in this direction.

For my own kid, I’d be supportive of them applying to selective HBCUs, but also considering non-HBCUs, too. Spouse attended Stanford for undergrad, and while I know that particular school is not a given—I know of several AA Stanford legacies, even double legacies, who were rejected recently—I’d want my kid to look at all good options, depending on interests and fit. This is all theoretical at this point, as we’re many, many years away from college apps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies have been white females. So it's the white female applicant pool that is harming the white male applicant pool the most in college applications. Yes, there are a few slots taken up by URM's that could have gone elsewhere but they are not the reason most white and Asian kids are getting the short end of the stick in college admissions.

I'm male and I have to say, "what the hell are you talking about?" Girls typically have better grades in HS. The only place that will sees lower standards for girls is athletics due to Title 9 and some engineering schools trying to "improve" the sex ratio of their enrolling class.

Affirmative action is not limited to race and is much more than comparing metrics at the time of college admission. It is all the programs, efforts, special encouragement, preferences given to one group over another early in their lives to even the scales and girls have been getting a lot of help for the last 40 years or so, specially in school, while boys have been left to fend for themselves. That is why you are seeing such a dramatic transformation in the college dynamic now. Girls have caught up and passed boys in school. In fact most public schools are now places where boys are at a clear disadvantage with poor role models and policies in place that actually make it harder for them to succeed. White girls were the primary beneficiaries of the AA gender efforts. For example the number of women physicians has tripled since 1970 because of gender based AA efforts.

The problem with URM AA in college admissions is that very little effort has been expended to expand the URM pool early. So you are left with one choice. Lower the standards to fill the numbers you want and call it holistic admissions, but if it were not for gender based AA, white men would still be a lion's share of the college matriculants. So the major reason for white guys getting shut out of colleges is not URM's but white girls, because of their numbers.

[Anonymous]

PP yes HBCUs lately have seen an uptick in their applications and top students sometimes want that experience. I am intrigued by the concept of undermatching. I think it is important that kids of color apply to and attend the best college they can afford. There is a lot of misinformation about the process out there, especially re: costs.

Here is a talk given by Shaun Harper a USC academic and he does extensive research on this topic. His talk was at the National Association for College Admission Counseling conference last year. Lots of food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcUkalvq0LA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

It only makes a good story if your kid is poor and they film a YouTube video of 150 classmates acting like they’re in a Pentacostal church when the kid gets in.

Lol. I'm sure it's hard for you to empathize, but this is literally life-changing for many of these kids, some of whom are from modest backgrounds, single-parent families, etc. Yes, these videos are over the top, but I love them and wish these kids all the luck during the college years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New viral tweet. White girl with 29 on the ACT (converted), better AP scores, 5 on the toughest AP exam, dual enrolled college credits...can't even get into one of the UC System colleges:

"Its official! After maintaining a 4.3 gpa throughout high school, receiving a 1370 SAT score, a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam, A's in 3 college English courses, and countless late nights studying, I am proud to announce that I will not be attending literally any UC I applied to."

I guess she's not "unique" enough.

https://twitter.com/manduhmia/status/979552096293871617

Does “Amanda Chavez” sound white to you?

Looks like a white girl with a Hispanic surname to me. I'd guess no more than 12-25% Hispanic, if that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t hate them because they are interesting...

Huh. My son had very similar ECs to these kids’ acitivities of Key Club, student government, mock trail, and debate and he was derided here as being “boring” “there’s nothing that makes him stand out” “you’re gonna need a lot more than that for Ivies”...lots of comments like that.

The silver spoon in his mouth was the tell.

What? My kid didn’t applie to any Ivies. His grades and scores and ECs were almost identical to these kids’ but we were told he had no chance.

It only makes a good story if your kid is poor and they film a YouTube video of 150 classmates acting like they’re in a Pentacostal church when the kid gets in.

Lol. I'm sure it's hard for you to empathize, but this is literally life-changing for many of these kids, some of whom are from modest backgrounds, single-parent families, etc. Yes, these videos are over the top, but I love them and wish these kids all the luck during the college years.

It's a nice tear-jerker, but ultimately it's part of a selling job to justify discrimination against white and Asian kids who have worked harder and have the grades and test scores to prove it, and for whom attending a top university would also be a life-changing experience.