Stats it takes for a student to get into Stanford, Harvard, Princeton & Yale (2018)

[Anonymous]

For my son it took 17 sacks and 31 tackle for loss over 45 games giving him a production ratio of 1.55. That plus 5.21 in the 40 yard dash and 42 reps in the bench press to get offers from all of the above. He went to Stanford which was our compromise between football and academics.

Academic stats were UW GPA of 3.2, ACT 28. His GPA would have been higher but he had a terrible 9th grade year. He took a couple of AP classes in high school, did well in the class but never took the AP exams - no point when you have a free ride for 5 years.

My suggestion - pick a sport and be a standout player.

[Anonymous]

Agreed - it helps to be an athlete. DS was recruited by all the ivies except Yale, as well as Duke, Stanford, and Georgetown. He chose Harvard because he felt it was the best academic environment - kids were intellectually curious, socially laid back, and the least athletic pressure for a D1.

3.9 (u/w gpa)/4.7 weighted) 1550 SAT NMF AP Scholar with distinction 4 time state champ in sport, 10 ten national rank

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed - it helps to be an athlete. DS was recruited by all the ivies except Yale, as well as Duke, Stanford, and Georgetown. He chose Harvard because he felt it was the best academic environment - kids were intellectually curious, socially laid back, and the least athletic pressure for a D1.

3.9 (u/w gpa)/4.7 weighted) 1550 SAT NMF AP Scholar with distinction 4 time state champ in sport, 10 ten national rank

I
Your kid had a good shot with or without sports but it was a good differentiator since every applicant is a top stats kid.

[Anonymous]

I get the need to promote Higher ed for the underpriviliged. Truly get that. But why at a HYPS? This kid should land where his scores are the norm. Wouldn't he be at the bottom of his class here? How would he cope?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action policies have been white females. So it's the white female applicant pool that is harming the white male applicant pool the most in college applications. Yes, there are a few slots taken up by URM's that could have gone elsewhere but they are not the reason most white and Asian kids are getting the short end of the stick in college admissions.

I'm male and I have to say, "what the hell are you talking about?" Girls typically have better grades in HS. The only place that will sees lower standards for girls is athletics due to Title 9 and some engineering schools trying to "improve" the sex ratio of their enrolling class.

Affirmative action is not limited to race and is much more than comparing metrics at the time of college admission. It is all the programs, efforts, special encouragement, preferences given to one group over another early in their lives to even the scales and girls have been getting a lot of help for the last 40 years or so, specially in school, while boys have been left to fend for themselves. That is why you are seeing such a dramatic transformation in the college dynamic now. Girls have caught up and passed boys in school. In fact most public schools are now places where boys are at a clear disadvantage with poor role models and policies in place that actually make it harder for them to succeed. White girls were the primary beneficiaries of the AA gender efforts. For example the number of women physicians has tripled since 1970 because of gender based AA efforts.

The problem with URM AA in college admissions is that very little effort has been expended to expand the URM pool early. So you are left with one choice. Lower the standards to fill the numbers you want and call it holistic admissions, but if it were not for gender based AA, white men would still be a lion's share of the college matriculants. So the major reason for white guys getting shut out of colleges is not URM's but white girls, because of their numbers.

Oh, so that is what you meant. Well, then I tend to agree, although I would not call what happened affirmative action. I would argue that society places less value on traditionally male virtues and has labelled typical adolescent male behavior as incompatible with learning. During the time period, however, there was certainly many statements to the effect that "Girls can do anything they want to achieve," which, I suppose, could be considered affirmative action. I think it is a mistake to focus your analysis on white girls. This has had effects over all races and, unfortunately, the negative effects are probably most profound against black males (in terms of society as a whole, not merely college admission).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get the need to promote Higher ed for the underpriviliged. Truly get that. But why at a HYPS? This kid should land where his scores are the norm. Wouldn't he be at the bottom of his class here? How would he cope?

Not necessarily--I have taught many high SAT students that ended up at the bottom of the class because they didn't finish their work, poor organizational skills, laziness, partying...
Yes, peers influence and affect college experience and performance, but understanding the course content at a competitive school is possible with an SAT score in the 85 percentile. You do not need to score in the 99th percentile to do well in most classes (or else the professor grades on a curve!).

[Anonymous]

We don't know if he got a full scholarship, or a combination of grants and loans. No reason he shouldn't try for the best scholarships to the best colleges. He's breaking no rules here -- and AOs will be calling the high school to see if they have any more students like him.

His GPA is backed up by strong AP test results and also SAT2 scores.


Wrong. Those are not amazing SAT II scores. His history score is only 73 percentile, bio is only 86 percentile. An Asian boy with his stats would be rejected from every college this boy was admitted to with a full ride. An Asian boy with those stats would struggle to get admitted to UVA with same profile.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-subject-test-score

Why do whites and Asians worship such a very low intellectual bar at the SAT following years of prepping and SAT prep courses. Such a low intellectual/academic bar that many top middle school students hit the ceiling just after elementary school!

SAT tests are a low bar to measure anything. Those whites and Asians who specialize in the SAT are not the movers and shakers of the globe...they spend their time, years, and money filling in scantron bubbles. I suspect most low income students take this screening test once without any preparation (650 vs 750 so what a couple of questions difference... much yawning). Why waste time and money to prepare for this middle school test?

[Anonymous]

This means nothing. Admission is not based on SATII scores. The ACT score is in the 98%. That along with grades are enough to put him in the game and make the first cut. The competition from there is a compelling story along with focused interests and strong teacher recs abd essays. Stuff you cant really judge on an anonymous forum

Of course, these kids do not spend their professional student lives prepping for a simple-minded test for primary school students. What a waste of time. Smart adults, educators and CEOs know this. Movers and shakers in academics and the industries are not in the least defined by SAT and ACT scores. Only fools drink this koolaid! Movers and shakers that will keep university endowments soaring are not necessarily those who spend their lives coloring in bubbles!! Smart business man and educators know this.

[Anonymous]

Ask any top CEO, Dean, Professor in any country in the world whether the College Board SAT or ACT score measures a person's success and ultimate work product and global footprint when all is said and done.

I personally would never admit anyone to my school or hire anybody on the basis of the College Board SAT score alone. NEVER! Strictly business and/or common sense decision here.

Bubble away!!

[Anonymous]

Micheal Brown, 17, got into all 20 highly selective colleges he applied to, all of which offered him a full ride through a combination of merit- and financial-based scholarships and grants. Mr. Brown got into elite private schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, the University of Pennsylvania, Northwestern, Stanford and Georgetown — his top picks. He was also admitted to small but highly selective liberal arts schools like Pomona College and large public universities like the University of Michigan.

Mr. Brown, a senior at Lamar High School in Houston, said that in addition to the money pledged by the schools, he was awarded about $260,000 through scholarships he sought outside of the college application process.

What did it take? Mr. Brown had a 4.68 grade point average when he applied to college, an SAT score of 1540 out of 1600 and an ACT score of 34 out of 36. He was on the school debate team, had done internships and was part of school activities like Key Club. His academic accomplishments aside, Mr. Brown credited his involvement in guidance programs such as the University of Southern California’s Bovard Scholars program and the Emerge Fellowship.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/01/us/college-acceptance-micheal-brown.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We don't know if he got a full scholarship, or a combination of grants and loans. No reason he shouldn't try for the best scholarships to the best colleges. He's breaking no rules here -- and AOs will be calling the high school to see if they have any more students like him.

His GPA is backed up by strong AP test results and also SAT2 scores.


Wrong. Those are not amazing SAT II scores. His history score is only 73 percentile, bio is only 86 percentile. An Asian boy with his stats would be rejected from every college this boy was admitted to with a full ride. An Asian boy with those stats would struggle to get admitted to UVA with same profile.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-subject-test-score

Why do whites and Asians worship such a very low intellectual bar at the SAT following years of prepping and SAT prep courses. Such a low intellectual/academic bar that many top middle school students hit the ceiling just after elementary school!

SAT tests are a low bar to measure anything. Those whites and Asians who specialize in the SAT are not the movers and shakers of the globe...they spend their time, years, and money filling in scantron bubbles. I suspect most low income students take this screening test once without any preparation (650 vs 750 so what a couple of questions difference... much yawning). Why waste time and money to prepare for this middle school test?

Nice story but not every Asian kid is "prepping" for the SATs for years or even for months. My kid scored over 1500 the first time he tried a timed, full length SAT on the Khan academy website without any prep. He wants a higher score so we will buy him a Kaplan book for $14 and he will spend a few weeks reviewing it before the actual test.
He enjoys school and works hard but also goofs off, spends time with friends, plays a sport for fun (in a low key rec. league), plays an instrument for fun (no high level competitions), loves to read, loves going to plays and museums, enjoys travel. I don't think he will be a "mover" of "shaker" but he is definitely not a scantron bubble filler and neither are most of his friends.
fwiw any kid from any socioeconomic class who is motivated enough to apply to an Ivy league university would probably be smart enough to buy a second hand SAT prep book or prep for free online at the Khan academy website. Here in Montgomery County there are local organizations that offer heavily subsidized SAT prep ($40 for an entire year of academic tutoring and SAT prep) in several high schools (so transportation isn't a problem either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Micheal Brown, 17, got into all 20 highly selective colleges he applied to, all of which offered him a full ride through a combination of merit- and financial-based scholarships and grants. Mr. Brown got into elite private schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, the University of Pennsylvania, Northwestern, Stanford and Georgetown — his top picks. He was also admitted to small but highly selective liberal arts schools like Pomona College and large public universities like the University of Michigan.

Mr. Brown, a senior at Lamar High School in Houston, said that in addition to the money pledged by the schools, he was awarded about $260,000 through scholarships he sought outside of the college application process.

What did it take? Mr. Brown had a 4.68 grade point average when he applied to college, an SAT score of 1540 out of 1600 and an ACT score of 34 out of 36. He was on the school debate team, had done internships and was part of school activities like Key Club. His academic accomplishments aside, Mr. Brown credited his involvement in guidance programs such as the University of Southern California’s Bovard Scholars program and the Emerge Fellowship.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/01/us/college-acceptance-micheal-brown.html

OK, now that fellow deserved the results he got.

[Anonymous]

Over 60,000 peers scored higher than him on the ACT alone. Figure at least another 60,000 scored higher than his him (percentile-wise) on the SAT as well.

Score # of Students
36 2,760
35 12,386
34 20,499
33 26,920

So what?

How about middle school students who have finished the high school math curriculum and in high school have not seen SAT or ACT math for years?

I bet may middle school students will have "high" scores on this low intellectual and academic bar metric?

So what? We do not have 60,000 seats at the Ivy League and NESCAC schools to accommodate all the ACT and SAT epidemic of geniuses in the US!!

What to do, this is a disaster in US education. Too many academic and intellectual geniuses in the US...or is this pure and simple grade and SAT/ACT inflation from low standards?

Harvard, clone thyself 20,000 times over to accommodate the US geniuses ... all intellectual stalwarts, movers and shakers of high morals, integrity and character.

[Anonymous]

Almost every kid, no ALL kids, at a school like TJ will score higher than this kid on ALL fronts. But only a handful get these kind of offers. Shame! We are supposed to be a merit-based society. Wonder when that changed..

So you believe Harvard should simply reserve every seat they have in their freshman class for each TJ graduate (about 450/year)? On what basis.. SAT/ACT scores? Ole southern Virginia ladies and gentlemen? These students will double Harvard endowment in 10 years? Dominate the Nobel Prizes awarded over the next 50 years?

Only a childish fool would subscribe to this recommendation. Tj is a great school ... like many others around the globe.

[Anonymous]

LOL @ merit based society. You 7?

If you smarty panty historians read and understood your own history you will realize a merit-based society was the last thing on the minds of the founding framers of the US constitution. Substitute white-based (similar to the Trumpian resurrection). Blacks, American Indians and persons of color were persona non grata for centuries...and even to this day. Witness the dcummie board.