When your friends live large and you feel like a loser . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Stereotypes suck, but it's not a completely unreasonable decision. My family comes from a culture where people will pour their life savings into buying their children an education, wedding, and home with furnishings. This is on the assumption that the child's married unit will endure, and that their children will take care of them into old age. Realistically, Americans get divorced more often than these people, and they are not inclined to financially support their parents. So, is it totally cruel to hold back on the financial help a little? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Stereotypes suck, but it's not a completely unreasonable decision. My family comes from a culture where people will pour their life savings into buying their children an education, wedding, and home with furnishings. This is on the assumption that the child's married unit will endure, and that their children will take care of them into old age. Realistically, Americans get divorced more often than these people, and they are not inclined to financially support their parents. So, is it totally cruel to hold back on the financial help a little? I don't think so.

I think a lot of these cultures (Indian and also other traditional Asians/Middle Eastern) are seeing first hand that divorces are happening -- whether your child marries an American or someone of the same culture -- and they see family strife is happening; everyone knows someone who has been hit by these problems. It's not as cut and dry now in the 2000s as it was in our parents' generation -- where you married pretty much in an arranged set up and lived with it, whether you loved each other or not, and oh if your arrangement included marrying an oldest son, your inlaws WOULD live with you upon retirement, whether you liked it or not. So to the extent that parents were handing over money back then to help their son build a home it would be there home too in a few years.

Fast forward a few decades. Indian born American "kids" are marrying Indians raised here and are marrying Americans, so the life views differ from the old country ways. Often those spouses fall out of love with each other, cheat, whatever -- so divorce happens as they won't suffer in silence for the next 50 yrs. And often one spouse or the other makes it very clear that no parent or inlaw will be living with them no matter what. Hence the "parent" generation is realizing this and realizing it is best that they hang on to their own retirement money, and after they fund college and/or weddings (if they can), they next focus on their own nest eggs. If after that nest egg, there is still excess money -- well then they're happy to help with grandkids' education or give some to their own child, but typically not to a spouse who could theoretically leave at any moment.

[Anonymous]

How much do you want to bet this home involves family money and/or a creative mortgage product, or very likely both?? Those types of jobs just do not lend themselves to a luxury penthouse in your 30s. Let your friends make it seem how they want -- it isn't true that they just bought this home bc "they worked hard."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Some Indian people are clannish, and feel this way, regardless of who their kids marry. I'm Indian American, married to an Indian, and my parents are wealthy. My husband's parents are middle class and live in India. My parents will do anything to avoid giving him money. They massively fund our kids' 529s and I have 2 paid off houses in my name in a trust, but they are pretty open about not wanting give us any shared monetary gifts. I'm not complaining, just stating the facts. The situation may be different if my husband's family were wealthy too.

Do your parents not give shared monetary gifts because they feel like your middle class inlaws can't afford to reciprocate?

That's part of it. Their thinking is, my in laws can't afford to reciprocate so why should they dole out cash for a family who can't bring the same monetary support to the table? My parents still think of my kids and myself as part of their family, and my husband and his family as "others." If there was equal reciprocation, I'm sure our families would be much closer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Some Indian people are clannish, and feel this way, regardless of who their kids marry. I'm Indian American, married to an Indian, and my parents are wealthy. My husband's parents are middle class and live in India. My parents will do anything to avoid giving him money. They massively fund our kids' 529s and I have 2 paid off houses in my name in a trust, but they are pretty open about not wanting give us any shared monetary gifts. I'm not complaining, just stating the facts. The situation may be different if my husband's family were wealthy too.

Do your parents not give shared monetary gifts because they feel like your middle class inlaws can't afford to reciprocate?

That's part of it. Their thinking is, my in laws can't afford to reciprocate so why should they dole out cash for a family who can't bring the same monetary support to the table? My parents still think of my kids and myself as part of their family, and my husband and his family as "others." If there was equal reciprocation, I'm sure our families would be much closer.

I'm Indian . . . and wow, that's gross. We're not rich so maybe it's different, but in my family the sons in law are very much a part of the family, no matter what their parents can/can't bring to the table. (No daughters in law -- as my parents had 2 daughters.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Stereotypes suck, but it's not a completely unreasonable decision. My family comes from a culture where people will pour their life savings into buying their children an education, wedding, and home with furnishings. This is on the assumption that the child's married unit will endure, and that their children will take care of them into old age. Realistically, Americans get divorced more often than these people, and they are not inclined to financially support their parents. So, is it totally cruel to hold back on the financial help a little? I don't think so.

I think a lot of these cultures (Indian and also other traditional Asians/Middle Eastern) are seeing first hand that divorces are happening -- whether your child marries an American or someone of the same culture -- and they see family strife is happening; everyone knows someone who has been hit by these problems. It's not as cut and dry now in the 2000s as it was in our parents' generation -- where you married pretty much in an arranged set up and lived with it, whether you loved each other or not, and oh if your arrangement included marrying an oldest son, your inlaws WOULD live with you upon retirement, whether you liked it or not. So to the extent that parents were handing over money back then to help their son build a home it would be there home too in a few years.

Fast forward a few decades. Indian born American "kids" are marrying Indians raised here and are marrying Americans, so the life views differ from the old country ways. Often those spouses fall out of love with each other, cheat, whatever -- so divorce happens as they won't suffer in silence for the next 50 yrs. And often one spouse or the other makes it very clear that no parent or inlaw will be living with them no matter what. Hence the "parent" generation is realizing this and realizing it is best that they hang on to their own retirement money, and after they fund college and/or weddings (if they can), they next focus on their own nest eggs. If after that nest egg, there is still excess money -- well then they're happy to help with grandkids' education or give some to their own child, but typically not to a spouse who could theoretically leave at any moment.

PP you are responding to. Everything you said is true, I was going to add those same thoughts into my response. But my parents are from a particularly devout religious community/minority, so people are assimilating culture-wise a little more slowly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I know lots of people like this in NYC. Some have family money propping them up and others are just living large. Overall, people in both camps are lacking in some aspect in their lives. It is a tough place to live and truly thrive. Nearly all the husbands are cheating or seriously contemplating cheating. Women are too busy working out and barely eating to keep the man while nannies raise children, who all are recreational drug users. One friend earns 600k and lives paycheck to paycheck. Husband cheats on her left and right while she's out slaving away to keep the money rolling in to maintain the luxury 2 bedroom apartment on the East side. I still envy their real estate but nothing beyond that because as I have grown up,I realize the quality of my suburban life is far nicer. Next time you are up there, really look at their lives closely and you will see huge holes. NYC friends of NYC friends are not deep friendships. It's really a messed up place. Here, I live very very well by DC standards but my NYC friends would shoot themselves if they woke up with my life. It's all smoke and mirrors up there. Be thankful that you got out of the scene.

Yes. My friend just received a 12k bracelet for birthday from her husband. But they don't even own their own home. They live in a crappy rental and are all about appearances. They go to the best parties, high end clothing, ridiculously expensive jewelry etc. yet they are probably too good for the house we own. It's all a joke.

Wouldn't say it's ALL smoke and mirrors. There are professionals in NYC who only want to stay there so they buy themselves a "regular" 600k 1 bedroom and start working their way thru the mortgage for the next 30 yrs like anyone else. But yeah -- there's a LOT of smoke and mirrors too.

What I can't stand are the "friends" who mock me for leaving/where I live now. They are currently trying to figure out how to make a family of 3 or 4 fit into a 1 bedroom or how to stretch into a 2 bedroom bc they will NOT leave the city, while also figuring out how to swing private school -- and I'm supposed to tell them how noble all those sacrifices are. And yet after visiting me in Ballston (in a high rise - not a SFH), they tell me -- if I had to live here I'd shoot myself. While the apartment I live in now would easily rent for 6-7k in NYC and could house a family of 4, it's just "not worth it" bc you give up so much. When asked what I give up -- well I can't have dumplings delivered to me a 2 am. Uh ok -- I'm thinking about a mortgage and 401k, you're thinking about delivery options.

They are most likely insecure. The NY friends who knock me are the ones spending all of their money on rent, travel and dining out. My friends who own expensive apartments in the city and can truly afford to live there would never knock me.

New Yorkers love to throw out the delivery options. I am in my 30s and don't need unlimited delivery options. I ordered delivery when I was hungover in my 20s. There are enough delivery options in dc anyway that you can order food in if you need to do so. I understand your point about being able to fully fund your 401k and pay down your mortgage. I think the mindset in NY is such that there's way less focus on this kind of stuff and more focus on spending snd doing anything you can get your hands on.

Ah yes -- the delivery options. A favorite of people when they are making the argument for why they can NEVER live anywhere besides NYC.

[Anonymous]

^pp. also so many New Yorkers seem to think that because they live around rich people that they are rich too. One of their reasons for staying in NY is to be around the action, glamour, wealth. Even though they aren't a part of this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^pp. also so many New Yorkers seem to think that because they live around rich people that they are rich too. One of their reasons for staying in NY is to be around the action, glamour, wealth. Even though they aren't a part of this world.

Lol. That's so true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^pp. also so many New Yorkers seem to think that because they live around rich people that they are rich too. One of their reasons for staying in NY is to be around the action, glamour, wealth. Even though they aren't a part of this world.

Lol. That's so true.

I purposefully kept my budget tight in the decade I lived there -- or else there'd be no savings -- but I was always amazed how much "regular" professionals (not just the wealthy hedge fund types) would spend on entertainment. It was constantly going out to the hottest restaurants/bars, going to charity galas etc. While some people worked for firms where you may have a table at the gala, I was always surprised that lots of my friends wanted to go whether they had a free ticket or not-- so they thought nothing of paying $500 for a ticket, not to mention buying a new dress/shoes/bag for it; cabs there and back since you're not taking the subway when you're all glammed up etc. $800 to go out on a Tuesday night just seems a bit extreme to me if you're making 150k -- AND it's not like you're doing it once a yr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^pp. also so many New Yorkers seem to think that because they live around rich people that they are rich too. One of their reasons for staying in NY is to be around the action, glamour, wealth. Even though they aren't a part of this world.

Lol. That's so true.

I purposefully kept my budget tight in the decade I lived there -- or else there'd be no savings -- but I was always amazed how much "regular" professionals (not just the wealthy hedge fund types) would spend on entertainment. It was constantly going out to the hottest restaurants/bars, going to charity galas etc. While some people worked for firms where you may have a table at the gala, I was always surprised that lots of my friends wanted to go whether they had a free ticket or not-- so they thought nothing of paying $500 for a ticket, not to mention buying a new dress/shoes/bag for it; cabs there and back since you're not taking the subway when you're all glammed up etc. $800 to go out on a Tuesday night just seems a bit extreme to me if you're making 150k -- AND it's not like you're doing it once a yr.

I've witnessed the same thing. I have a few friends single and making around 200k who have hamptons rentals (~10-12k a share), have seen Hamilton, go out to eat frequently, order take out all the time, expensive international vacations etc. there is no way they aren't spending every dime they make. Which is fine except when I miss NY I try and remind myself I wouldn't be living this lifestyle and I earn 2x as much as they do. I want to save for retirement and continue paying down my mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^pp. also so many New Yorkers seem to think that because they live around rich people that they are rich too. One of their reasons for staying in NY is to be around the action, glamour, wealth. Even though they aren't a part of this world.

Lol. That's so true.

I purposefully kept my budget tight in the decade I lived there -- or else there'd be no savings -- but I was always amazed how much "regular" professionals (not just the wealthy hedge fund types) would spend on entertainment. It was constantly going out to the hottest restaurants/bars, going to charity galas etc. While some people worked for firms where you may have a table at the gala, I was always surprised that lots of my friends wanted to go whether they had a free ticket or not-- so they thought nothing of paying $500 for a ticket, not to mention buying a new dress/shoes/bag for it; cabs there and back since you're not taking the subway when you're all glammed up etc. $800 to go out on a Tuesday night just seems a bit extreme to me if you're making 150k -- AND it's not like you're doing it once a yr.

Honestly, the cabs are the least of your worries if you're spending $500 for a ticket plus a new "outfit."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Maybe if you were an Indian-American too they would have given money? Maybe they are not sure that you are with their son for the long haul? Maybe they think that you will not care for them in their old age, and so they are behaving like Americans and saving the money for themselves. My parents paid for my education and wedding. They have helped raised my kids and gave money for my first car, and also money for my kids education fund. They live a very frugal lifestyle, but if they ever need me - old age or illness - I will help them move in with us and take care of them. Ditto for my ILs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Maybe if you were an Indian-American too they would have given money? Maybe they are not sure that you are with their son for the long haul? Maybe they think that you will not care for them in their old age, and so they are behaving like Americans and saving the money for themselves. My parents paid for my education and wedding. They have helped raised my kids and gave money for my first car, and also money for my kids education fund. They live a very frugal lifestyle, but if they ever need me - old age or illness - I will help them move in with us and take care of them. Ditto for my ILs.

I'm Indian American married to an Indian American. My in laws paid for the wedding, down payment for house, pay for our kids private school, and throw in one family vacation per year. We are blessed and it is totally understood without question that when they are old, we will assist in every possible way to care for them in their old age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Maybe if you were an Indian-American too they would have given money? Maybe they are not sure that you are with their son for the long haul? Maybe they think that you will not care for them in their old age, and so they are behaving like Americans and saving the money for themselves. My parents paid for my education and wedding. They have helped raised my kids and gave money for my first car, and also money for my kids education fund. They live a very frugal lifestyle, but if they ever need me - old age or illness - I will help them move in with us and take care of them. Ditto for my ILs.

I'm Indian American married to an Indian American. My in laws paid for the wedding, down payment for house, pay for our kids private school, and throw in one family vacation per year. We are blessed and it is totally understood without question that when they are old, we will assist in every possible way to care for them in their old age.

Hmmm. Both your parents and your inlaws will become old one day, right so which set will you have live with you? I assume that if you are the husband you will have to take in your parents in order to be the dutiful son? So will you just pay for your inlaws nursing home?