When your friends live large and you feel like a loser . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- I was wallowing needlessly. And yes -- I DID change the non-relevant details though I'm fairly sure they aren't reading here.

I realize I have it pretty good too -- it's just when you see people who have always shirked work in a $4 million home that you'll never have no matter how hard you work, you wonder why you work so hard . . . . But I realize my financial decisions are my own and I'm in a 1 bedroom in NoVA after 10 yrs in biglaw + inhouse bc I'm probably too financially conservative and just haven't cared about real estate like others have. I've never felt "settled" career-wise -- went thru the early part of biglaw thinking, save as much as you can in case you get pushed out as a 3rd yr (my firm was big on culling the size of the class before promoting people to midlevels); then when I made it to being a senior it was -- save all you can, you likely won't make this much forever; then when it was moving here for in-house it was -- don't know if I'll like it here/like the job, so let's not commit too much financially. So maybe I need to change my own ways a bit . . . .

I am the person who talked about being happy with what you have and not assuming that other people have some deep dark secret... it's just stuff, OP. In the end, it's utterly and completely meaningless. You mental state, your contentment or lack thereof, is way more important than the stuff you have. There will always be people who have more beautiful homes without having worked a day in their lives. So what? Why does it even matter? Do you think, sitting in some luxurious home is going to make you a happier person, or a better person? More likely than not, if you owned a $4 million home you'd probably feel the exact same way that you feel right now. I live in a house, I used to live in a 1 bedroom apartment. I really love my home and I really loved my tiny old apartment. But I can vouch that neither of them had much of an impact on my mental state. I'm the exact same person I was then. I have bad days and good days for virtually the same reasons.

OP here -- I get what you're saying. It's just stuff. And obviously I'm made decisions not to purchase a ton of stuff. But I guess I think -- doesn't contentment to some extent come from accomplishment? How could it not? So if I was living in a $4 million home -- would I be thinking -- wow all my hard work has been worth it, look at this home I got to buy??

No. You'd be thinking how do I furnish this house to the standard it needs? Are the cleaning people doing a good job? Is the maintenance going well? Do I need a better car to match the better house? Etc etc etc.

Not necessarily. We are wealthy, and that brings considerable peace of mind. It doesn't mean we're amazingly happier every day than we'd be if we were only 1/3 as fortunate, but neither does it mean that we just fret about stupid things like the quality of maid service.

To go back to the OP's question, however, I don't see how having friends who seem to be living off their extended family should make her feel like a loser. If anything, I'd think it might make her feel more accomplished and self-sufficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just heard a radio show about a family in Mexico that was deported from the US after raising their kids here. They struggle to support themselves in Mexico and are considering sneaking back in to the US even though they know they will probably be caught because they have no other choice for their kids. You are not falling behind just because your friend has a $4M apartment.

Are they sneaking back in to steal away the Big Law jobs everyone is discussing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- I was wallowing needlessly. And yes -- I DID change the non-relevant details though I'm fairly sure they aren't reading here.

I realize I have it pretty good too -- it's just when you see people who have always shirked work in a $4 million home that you'll never have no matter how hard you work, you wonder why you work so hard . . . . But I realize my financial decisions are my own and I'm in a 1 bedroom in NoVA after 10 yrs in biglaw + inhouse bc I'm probably too financially conservative and just haven't cared about real estate like others have. I've never felt "settled" career-wise -- went thru the early part of biglaw thinking, save as much as you can in case you get pushed out as a 3rd yr (my firm was big on culling the size of the class before promoting people to midlevels); then when I made it to being a senior it was -- save all you can, you likely won't make this much forever; then when it was moving here for in-house it was -- don't know if I'll like it here/like the job, so let's not commit too much financially. So maybe I need to change my own ways a bit . . . .

I am the person who talked about being happy with what you have and not assuming that other people have some deep dark secret... it's just stuff, OP. In the end, it's utterly and completely meaningless. You mental state, your contentment or lack thereof, is way more important than the stuff you have. There will always be people who have more beautiful homes without having worked a day in their lives. So what? Why does it even matter? Do you think, sitting in some luxurious home is going to make you a happier person, or a better person? More likely than not, if you owned a $4 million home you'd probably feel the exact same way that you feel right now. I live in a house, I used to live in a 1 bedroom apartment. I really love my home and I really loved my tiny old apartment. But I can vouch that neither of them had much of an impact on my mental state. I'm the exact same person I was then. I have bad days and good days for virtually the same reasons.

OP here -- I get what you're saying. It's just stuff. And obviously I'm made decisions not to purchase a ton of stuff. But I guess I think -- doesn't contentment to some extent come from accomplishment? How could it not? So if I was living in a $4 million home -- would I be thinking -- wow all my hard work has been worth it, look at this home I got to buy??

No. You'd be thinking how do I furnish this house to the standard it needs? Are the cleaning people doing a good job? Is the maintenance going well? Do I need a better car to match the better house? Etc etc etc.

Not necessarily. We are wealthy, and that brings considerable peace of mind. It doesn't mean we're amazingly happier every day than we'd be if we were only 1/3 as fortunate, but neither does it mean that we just fret about stupid things like the quality of maid service.

To go back to the OP's question, however, I don't see how having friends who seem to be living off their extended family should make her feel like a loser. If anything, I'd think it might make her feel more accomplished and self-sufficient.

This poster makes an interesting point, but I don't think this post really helps OP. When my financial situation improved, I decided that I was going to treat money as a tool, not something I worship. This is a deliberate decision. If I feel that money gives me "peace of mind," than that means that everything would go to shit if I somehow lost all my money. People think that they will never lose their money or their status once they reach a certain point, but that's not necessarily true. So I don't go that route. I'm not stressed out about money, but I know what I am- I'm resourceful. If the worst should happen, I will make a way to take care of myself. If I encounter a money problem- I will find a way out of it. If I have a health problem or a relationship problem, I will fight to fix it. And I know that if I go down, it won't be without a fight. That's what gives me peace of mind. Not money. So many people on this board seem so miserable because they want to be where the poster above is- where money gave her "peace of mind." I don't know how wealthy pp is, but I think that's all an illusion. Peace of mind should come from God or your good chi or whatever you believe in, not from money or an external "thing."

[Anonymous]

^^^
Your post reminds me of people who are financially irresponsible and think everything will work out. Of course if you have savings and don't have debt or have minimal debt you just aren't going to lose everything. With my net worth I can focus on other things in life because I'm never going to be hungry or homeless ... Unless the zombies come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^
Your post reminds me of people who are financially irresponsible and think everything will work out. Of course if you have savings and don't have debt or have minimal debt you just aren't going to lose everything. With my net worth I can focus on other things in life because I'm never going to be hungry or homeless ... Unless the zombies come.

I think you misunderstood. I am the pp you are responding to, and I am very much the opposite of financially irresponsible. But I don't put myself in the mindset where money gives me "peace of mind." I don't know, it just strikes me as a very spiritually damaging way of looking at the world.

[Anonymous]

I'm an Indian American, been here most of my life. Wife is indian American as well. We have two kids and will pay for 100% of their college, law school or med school included if they so wish to pursue. Once they get married, we will help with reasonable down payment and then not provide additional financial support thereafter, even if have loads of money. Having been brought up here, we believe in assisting our children but only up to a certain point. Once they have the tools, they need to learn to kill on their own. Otherwise, they just become jerks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Some Indian people are clannish, and feel this way, regardless of who their kids marry. I'm Indian American, married to an Indian, and my parents are wealthy. My husband's parents are middle class and live in India. My parents will do anything to avoid giving him money. They massively fund our kids' 529s and I have 2 paid off houses in my name in a trust, but they are pretty open about not wanting give us any shared monetary gifts. I'm not complaining, just stating the facts. The situation may be different if my husband's family were wealthy too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I know lots of people like this in NYC. Some have family money propping them up and others are just living large. Overall, people in both camps are lacking in some aspect in their lives. It is a tough place to live and truly thrive. Nearly all the husbands are cheating or seriously contemplating cheating. Women are too busy working out and barely eating to keep the man while nannies raise children, who all are recreational drug users. One friend earns 600k and lives paycheck to paycheck. Husband cheats on her left and right while she's out slaving away to keep the money rolling in to maintain the luxury 2 bedroom apartment on the East side. I still envy their real estate but nothing beyond that because as I have grown up,I realize the quality of my suburban life is far nicer. Next time you are up there, really look at their lives closely and you will see huge holes. NYC friends of NYC friends are not deep friendships. It's really a messed up place. Here, I live very very well by DC standards but my NYC friends would shoot themselves if they woke up with my life. It's all smoke and mirrors up there. Be thankful that you got out of the scene.

This. Nyc is a scam. So grateful to be here with my honorable husband and big comfy home... friends in nyc live in relative squalor and work so much they never enjoy the city anyway.

[Anonymous]

OP your friends clearly are getting family help, but I always felt like people in biglaw or finance in NYC live larger than people in those same fields in other cities who are making the same money -- at least that's what I was seeing in my associate yrs (which were 5 yrs ago). I think it's a combo of things. The hours are longer. Life is harder -- when you lug your laundry down to the basement and find all 7 washers are taken; or you can't get a cab to save your life bc they're all off for shift change or it's raining (I know uber has changed things); or you find a cab and said cab gets stuck in traffic and runs up your fare $40 higher than expected; or your $2500 month/studio springs a leak bc your building never actually does any maintenance and your landlord shrugs and says he'll get to it when he gets to it and in the meantime you have no place to go bc you live in 1 room.

I think bc of these daily non stop conveniences on top of LONG hours, people who make money are much more of the -- eff it, life is hard, I'm going to enjoy myself -- attitude. So LOTS of money is spent out at restaurants and bars. Lots of last minute vacations whenever work allows -- paying top dollar for last minute flights and 5 star accommodations wherever you're going. There's not just the same sense of planning there as I've seen living in DC, Philly etc. where people are actively saving for down payments, maxing out 401ks, paying down mortgages etc. I think it's in part bc it's an expensive, hard to live place -- people compensate by living large to make themselves happier and if that means 5k/yr goes into the 401k instead of 18k, oh well.

I mean I was surprised as a 5th yr associate, how many of my peers hadn't STARTED a 401k yet. At age 31. And these were not people who came from money and didn't have to consider savings . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your friends clearly are getting family help, but I always felt like people in biglaw or finance in NYC live larger than people in those same fields in other cities who are making the same money -- at least that's what I was seeing in my associate yrs (which were 5 yrs ago). I think it's a combo of things. The hours are longer. Life is harder -- when you lug your laundry down to the basement and find all 7 washers are taken; or you can't get a cab to save your life bc they're all off for shift change or it's raining (I know uber has changed things); or you find a cab and said cab gets stuck in traffic and runs up your fare $40 higher than expected; or your $2500 month/studio springs a leak bc your building never actually does any maintenance and your landlord shrugs and says he'll get to it when he gets to it and in the meantime you have no place to go bc you live in 1 room.

I think bc of these daily non stop conveniences on top of LONG hours, people who make money are much more of the -- eff it, life is hard, I'm going to enjoy myself -- attitude. So LOTS of money is spent out at restaurants and bars. Lots of last minute vacations whenever work allows -- paying top dollar for last minute flights and 5 star accommodations wherever you're going. There's not just the same sense of planning there as I've seen living in DC, Philly etc. where people are actively saving for down payments, maxing out 401ks, paying down mortgages etc. I think it's in part bc it's an expensive, hard to live place -- people compensate by living large to make themselves happier and if that means 5k/yr goes into the 401k instead of 18k, oh well.

I mean I was surprised as a 5th yr associate, how many of my peers hadn't STARTED a 401k yet. At age 31. And these were not people who came from money and didn't have to consider savings . . . .

But something else has to also be driving this. My friends in NY really don't seem the slightest bit bothered they don't have a downpayment saved up and haven't been saving for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your friends clearly are getting family help, but I always felt like people in biglaw or finance in NYC live larger than people in those same fields in other cities who are making the same money -- at least that's what I was seeing in my associate yrs (which were 5 yrs ago). I think it's a combo of things. The hours are longer. Life is harder -- when you lug your laundry down to the basement and find all 7 washers are taken; or you can't get a cab to save your life bc they're all off for shift change or it's raining (I know uber has changed things); or you find a cab and said cab gets stuck in traffic and runs up your fare $40 higher than expected; or your $2500 month/studio springs a leak bc your building never actually does any maintenance and your landlord shrugs and says he'll get to it when he gets to it and in the meantime you have no place to go bc you live in 1 room.

I think bc of these daily non stop conveniences on top of LONG hours, people who make money are much more of the -- eff it, life is hard, I'm going to enjoy myself -- attitude. So LOTS of money is spent out at restaurants and bars. Lots of last minute vacations whenever work allows -- paying top dollar for last minute flights and 5 star accommodations wherever you're going. There's not just the same sense of planning there as I've seen living in DC, Philly etc. where people are actively saving for down payments, maxing out 401ks, paying down mortgages etc. I think it's in part bc it's an expensive, hard to live place -- people compensate by living large to make themselves happier and if that means 5k/yr goes into the 401k instead of 18k, oh well.

I mean I was surprised as a 5th yr associate, how many of my peers hadn't STARTED a 401k yet. At age 31. And these were not people who came from money and didn't have to consider savings . . . .

But something else has to also be driving this. My friends in NY really don't seem the slightest bit bothered they don't have a downpayment saved up and haven't been saving for retirement.

I can only speak for my friend group in NYC -- all in finance and law -- they have a HUGE confidence that they will ALWAYS have jobs and will always keep getting promoted to the next level; and if there's ever layoffs or downturns or they don't make promotions -- no problem bc they're in NYC which is the best city for jobs, so they'll just go across the street and get another at even better comp. As we are now closer to 10 yrs out of law school, many are finding that reality doesn't work that way -- you can very easily be passed over for partner and not find another gig for a yr; and then find an inhouse gig that pays much less. Somehow my friends in Philly -- where I grew up and went to law school -- have ALWAYS been attuned to this reality. Maybe bc Philly isn't as prolific of a city as NYC, my peers there are very cognizant of -- I better save up for retirement while I can and build up an emergency fund and pay down the mortgage bc who knows where I'll be job wise in 5 yrs. DC -- I don't know -- just from the people I know here, most aspire to retire "early" so there's a big emphasis on saving; it's not bc they think they'll be unemployable at age 62 like my Philly friends do but many say, I want to work really hard now so I don't have to at 62.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If her family lives overseas it could be a family apartment/investment? Chinese or Indian?

Indian

I knew it! Parents usually pay for or at least give down payment for a couple's first home.

What? I'm married to an Indian-American man and his parents never gave us a penny! They are not poor either.

Do they not approve of you?

They didn't like me at first (I'm not Indian) but they've warmed up to me over the years especially after having kids. Is that why they don't pay for anything?

I am from a similar immigrant community and people have really negative stereotypes about American women- the most relevant of which is that they will not stick with the marriage. So they refrain from giving their kids that marry Americans any money in case "the worst" happens, then they will give their kids money. Once you had children and they got to know you this worry was relieved a little bit, but they're not giving your family money until they die. I've seen it happen in my family.

Wow. This is the first time I've heard this, despite being married to my husband for 15 years! That was an eye opener. Thanks.

Some Indian people are clannish, and feel this way, regardless of who their kids marry. I'm Indian American, married to an Indian, and my parents are wealthy. My husband's parents are middle class and live in India. My parents will do anything to avoid giving him money. They massively fund our kids' 529s and I have 2 paid off houses in my name in a trust, but they are pretty open about not wanting give us any shared monetary gifts. I'm not complaining, just stating the facts. The situation may be different if my husband's family were wealthy too.

Do your parents not give shared monetary gifts because they feel like your middle class inlaws can't afford to reciprocate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your friends clearly are getting family help, but I always felt like people in biglaw or finance in NYC live larger than people in those same fields in other cities who are making the same money -- at least that's what I was seeing in my associate yrs (which were 5 yrs ago). I think it's a combo of things. The hours are longer. Life is harder -- when you lug your laundry down to the basement and find all 7 washers are taken; or you can't get a cab to save your life bc they're all off for shift change or it's raining (I know uber has changed things); or you find a cab and said cab gets stuck in traffic and runs up your fare $40 higher than expected; or your $2500 month/studio springs a leak bc your building never actually does any maintenance and your landlord shrugs and says he'll get to it when he gets to it and in the meantime you have no place to go bc you live in 1 room.

I think bc of these daily non stop conveniences on top of LONG hours, people who make money are much more of the -- eff it, life is hard, I'm going to enjoy myself -- attitude. So LOTS of money is spent out at restaurants and bars. Lots of last minute vacations whenever work allows -- paying top dollar for last minute flights and 5 star accommodations wherever you're going. There's not just the same sense of planning there as I've seen living in DC, Philly etc. where people are actively saving for down payments, maxing out 401ks, paying down mortgages etc. I think it's in part bc it's an expensive, hard to live place -- people compensate by living large to make themselves happier and if that means 5k/yr goes into the 401k instead of 18k, oh well.

I mean I was surprised as a 5th yr associate, how many of my peers hadn't STARTED a 401k yet. At age 31. And these were not people who came from money and didn't have to consider savings . . . .

But something else has to also be driving this. My friends in NY really don't seem the slightest bit bothered they don't have a downpayment saved up and haven't been saving for retirement.

I can only speak for my friend group in NYC -- all in finance and law -- they have a HUGE confidence that they will ALWAYS have jobs and will always keep getting promoted to the next level; and if there's ever layoffs or downturns or they don't make promotions -- no problem bc they're in NYC which is the best city for jobs, so they'll just go across the street and get another at even better comp. As we are now closer to 10 yrs out of law school, many are finding that reality doesn't work that way -- you can very easily be passed over for partner and not find another gig for a yr; and then find an inhouse gig that pays much less. Somehow my friends in Philly -- where I grew up and went to law school -- have ALWAYS been attuned to this reality. Maybe bc Philly isn't as prolific of a city as NYC, my peers there are very cognizant of -- I better save up for retirement while I can and build up an emergency fund and pay down the mortgage bc who knows where I'll be job wise in 5 yrs. DC -- I don't know -- just from the people I know here, most aspire to retire "early" so there's a big emphasis on saving; it's not bc they think they'll be unemployable at age 62 like my Philly friends do but many say, I want to work really hard now so I don't have to at 62.

Ha. I'm constantly thinking about how I'll have my house paid off at 48. My New York friends haven't even thought about the fact they will still be renting.