WWYD - DH's Ex-Mistress Sent Him "I Miss You" Email

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

NP here. He said it in an "assholish" way but I see where he is coming from.

I am in a sexless marriage so IF I were to cheat on my wife - it would be for the sex. If I happened to be caught and one of the conditions was "rebuilding trust" by giving up passwords and agreeing to spot checks, I would likely opt for divorce. I may be a stone cold coward and asshole, but I am not going to try to rebuild trust with anyone who did not think enough of me to consider my needs too. That would be a miserable life for both of us.

If you want to be an unrepentant cheater and abandon your family, I agree - don't bother trying to rebuild trust.

PP here. But you folks are contradicting yourselves. People here are saying that it is never the same and totally rebuilding trust is impossible. If that is the case, why would my DW want to be in a situation where she had to serve as my warden and keep track of my emails and comings and going? And why would I, although I messed up, subject myself to that? Truth be told, OP has to ask herself if THIS is the way she wants to live. And her DH needs to ask himself the same question.

I don't agree that rebuilding trust is impossible, although I do agree that if, after a good faith effort, the spouse thinks there is no way to re-establish the trust, the marriage needs to end. But I think that, at least temporarily, access to emails/phone records can help re-establish that trust, both in showing that the cheating spouse is willing to place the relationship above their own individual desires, and to show more practically that the cheating has stopped.

PP, you seem to be saying that, if you cheat and violate someone's trust, and you get caught, if your significant other isn't willing to immediately trust you 100%, there's no point in continuing the relationship. Which is your right, of course, but I don't think it's in any way reasonable to expect that from someone.

Quite the contrary. I'm not saying that if I were to be cheat on her that my girl should just immediately dismiss it as an aberration and have no lingering doubts or concerns whatsoever and that she should just get right back to trusting me 100% as if nothing ever happened.
What I'm saying is that while I may not want to give up on the relationship, I would ultimately choose to if it meant giving up the passwords to my phone and my email etc. I personally feel such extremes are in no way conducive to reestablishing trust between us and that resorting to those measures would only cause friction not ease tension.
Trust is earned, yes, and when abused it definitely takes a lot of time and work to build it back up. I would definitely take the time and put in the work to rebuild that trust but I would not subject myself to surveillance.

So what would you be willing to do to help her try to rebuild that trust?

[Anonymous]

Defensive sexless PP, I think you are overly focused on the access to email/phone. The thing that is missing from the situation you describe in your family is that there would also be OTHER trust rebuilding efforts going on if your marriage was in crisis as a result of sex-deprivation-induced-cheating or whatever you want to call it.

You deal with the issues that are specific to each party. If you're the cheater, the trust you will need to rebuild would be associated with communicating with your AP. Giving your wife access to your means of communication so that she can reassure herself that you are not communicating with your AP would be one way to rebuild that trust. If your wife has been withholding sex, then you would obviously also want to address that problem head on as well. Her giving you the passwords to HER email would do nothing to address her low desire, lack of attraction to you, physical issue or whatever the problem is.

I don't think that affairs happen in a vacuum most of the time. I think that reconciliations work best when both parties are committed to doing the emotional work required to build or rebuild a relationship. When your relationship is so far gone that one partner is involved with someone else and the other doesn't trust them at all as a result, there is a LOT of rebuilding required. Ground up renovation. You can't do that only by giving access to email.

[Anonymous]

16:03 here.

I forgot to mention that not everyone is going to want blanket access to communications devices as a means of reconciliation. While it's a common request, it's certainly not going to happen in all cases, and, as several PPs pointed out, even having that access is not going to necessarily preclude the possibility that the cheater is continuing to cheat using some other means of communication. But the reality is that some people are reassured by being granted such access, and if you are attempting to reconcile with someone who DOES want that, and you refuse it, the refusal will likely torpedo the reconciliation.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

OK, well, then you're placing your personal control over your email above your marriage. Which is your right, but kind of betrays how comparatively little you value your marriage. Enjoy your prize: an Expensive Divorce!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Defensive sexless PP, I think you are overly focused on the access to email/phone. The thing that is missing from the situation you describe in your family is that there would also be OTHER trust rebuilding efforts going on if your marriage was in crisis as a result of sex-deprivation-induced-cheating or whatever you want to call it.

You deal with the issues that are specific to each party. If you're the cheater, the trust you will need to rebuild would be associated with communicating with your AP. Giving your wife access to your means of communication so that she can reassure herself that you are not communicating with your AP would be one way to rebuild that trust. If your wife has been withholding sex, then you would obviously also want to address that problem head on as well. Her giving you the passwords to HER email would do nothing to address her low desire, lack of attraction to you, physical issue or whatever the problem is.

I don't think that affairs happen in a vacuum most of the time. I think that reconciliations work best when both parties are committed to doing the emotional work required to build or rebuild a relationship. When your relationship is so far gone that one partner is involved with someone else and the other doesn't trust them at all as a result, there is a LOT of rebuilding required. Ground up renovation. You can't do that only by giving access to email.

Sexless PP here. Fair point.

I think the "concern" I have is that folks are NOT focusing on the underlying problems. In my specific situation, if I cheated, I would be totally at fault. But I do not think that negates the other problems in the marriage that may or may not have lead to my stepping out. Of course, my DW is not going to want to sex me if she found out I screwed around. I get that. But I think a 'holistic" view of the marriage and it's issues is in order. To say that the answer is me going out of my way to "rebuild trust" ignores the other problems in the marriage and creates more resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

I am not sure. Because the issue is that she would not have sex with me - that was her exercise of power. That is what prompted this whole hypothetical affair. So I am not sure that I would be ok with her willingly giving it to someone else after refusing me for months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

Does your failure to answer means that you would NOT be okay with your wife balancing the power by also having an equivalent affair? So you really don't want things to be equal; you just want to do whatever you want and your wife can either take it or leave it. As I thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

I am not sure. Because the issue is that she would not have sex with me - that was her exercise of power. That is what prompted this whole hypothetical affair. So I am not sure that I would be ok with her willingly giving it to someone else after refusing me for months.

Why would you need to be "ok" with it? In your hypo, you didn't ask her if she was "ok" with your affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

OK, well, then you're placing your personal control over your email above your marriage. Which is your right, but kind of betrays how comparatively little you value your marriage. Enjoy your prize: an Expensive Divorce!

It is just not email control with me and I think there are two of us saying the same thing in different ways. If we are in the "rebuilding" or "renovating" phase because of infidelity, it is clear that the marriage is broken on many levels. What I am saying is that if saving my marriage is contigent on my DW being able to track my every move, I am not sure that is a marriage that either of us would want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

I am not sure. Because the issue is that she would not have sex with me - that was her exercise of power. That is what prompted this whole hypothetical affair. So I am not sure that I would be ok with her willingly giving it to someone else after refusing me for months.

But you emphasize repeatedly that everything needs to be balanced. If you are going to address your marriage problems by having an affair, than why can't she? Maybe another guy would get things going for her again in a way that you can't?

My point is that for most people, having an affair is like setting off a nuclear bomb in your marriage. Rebuilding is incredibly difficult, and impossible for many. Your bleating about making everything equal and not being continually monitored indicates that you're looking for a way to blame her for your (hypothetical) bad behavior. You are responsible for your own decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

DH here. Totally agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

NP here. He said it in an "assholish" way but I see where he is coming from.

I am in a sexless marriage so IF I were to cheat on my wife - it would be for the sex. If I happened to be caught and one of the conditions was "rebuilding trust" by giving up passwords and agreeing to spot checks, I would likely opt for divorce. I may be a stone cold coward and asshole, but I am not going to try to rebuild trust with anyone who did not think enough of me to consider my needs too. That would be a miserable life for both of us.

If you want to be an unrepentant cheater and abandon your family, I agree - don't bother trying to rebuild trust.

PP here. But you folks are contradicting yourselves. People here are saying that it is never the same and totally rebuilding trust is impossible. If that is the case, why would my DW want to be in a situation where she had to serve as my warden and keep track of my emails and comings and going? And why would I, although I messed up, subject myself to that? Truth be told, OP has to ask herself if THIS is the way she wants to live. And her DH needs to ask himself the same question.

I don't agree that rebuilding trust is impossible, although I do agree that if, after a good faith effort, the spouse thinks there is no way to re-establish the trust, the marriage needs to end. But I think that, at least temporarily, access to emails/phone records can help re-establish that trust, both in showing that the cheating spouse is willing to place the relationship above their own individual desires, and to show more practically that the cheating has stopped.

PP, you seem to be saying that, if you cheat and violate someone's trust, and you get caught, if your significant other isn't willing to immediately trust you 100%, there's no point in continuing the relationship. Which is your right, of course, but I don't think it's in any way reasonable to expect that from someone.

Quite the contrary. I'm not saying that if I were to be cheat on her that my girl should just immediately dismiss it as an aberration and have no lingering doubts or concerns whatsoever and that she should just get right back to trusting me 100% as if nothing ever happened.
What I'm saying is that while I may not want to give up on the relationship, I would ultimately choose to if it meant giving up the passwords to my phone and my email etc. I personally feel such extremes are in no way conducive to reestablishing trust between us and that resorting to those measures would only cause friction not ease tension.
Trust is earned, yes, and when abused it definitely takes a lot of time and work to build it back up. I would definitely take the time and put in the work to rebuild that trust but I would not subject myself to surveillance.

So what would you be willing to do to help her try to rebuild that trust?

Well there are all kinds of emotional elements and psychological supplements involved - all of which requires a lot of talking/sharing and a lot of listening/understanding by both parties and those intricacies vary from relationship to relationship so I couldn't get all specific hypothetically speaking, but I can say this...any man who ever cheated and successfully made amends will tell you that routine was his right hand man because while trust in a relationship can be typified as unbreakable, unshakable, indestructible, and incorruptible there is one thing that can seriously damage it - surprise.
It was the surprise and unpredictability of events that caused all the damage to her trust so in order to rebuild that trust the most critical thing is to establish routine to ensure predictability. She wouldn't have to wonder where I am at 7:34am on a Monday morning or 1:28 pm on a Saturday afternoon or 8:21 pm on a Sunday night. I would be willing to make whatever sacrifices necessary to be as routine and predictable as the sunrise - you can count on it being there every day in the east and you can count on it being at its highest point every day at noon and you can count on it setting slowly every day in the west. No change. Predictable. Reliable. Trustworthy.

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Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

I am not placing a level importance on anything. I am saying that I will not live a certain way to rebuild that trust. And yup, I believe that the balance of power in a marriage should be equal or close to it.

So would you allow your wife to have an affair, too, to balance the power?

I am not sure. Because the issue is that she would not have sex with me - that was her exercise of power. That is what prompted this whole hypothetical affair. So I am not sure that I would be ok with her willingly giving it to someone else after refusing me for months.

Why would you need to be "ok" with it? In your hypo, you didn't ask her if she was "ok" with your affair.

Just like she did not ask me if I was "ok" with being celibate?