I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

you attract the energy you put out! start there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

+1. Move to a mixed income neighborhood with more racial and sexual diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you attract the energy you put out! start there!

A simplistic concept for simple minds, but actually not accurate. Interpersonal dynamics are much more complex than that.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately / fortunately there are women like this everywhere. You cannot escape them because they run things that no one else wants to run. This is how soceity works. The obnoxious people who shouldn't be leading are usually thr ones who want to lead.

[Anonymous]

This is a "you" problem.

You are insecure, OP. And probably making people dislike you. Figure out your own issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Literally all female managers at my prior government contracting job were like that. In my view, you can counter it by being extremely confident and behaving exact same way with her. She will consider you an equal and back off. Try to "take the lead" and mirror her. They all hate each other, yes. But this is the only way you can protect your self esteem and survive in this environment.

I tried to grey wall but they are just really invasive and would consider it as weakness, and continue gossip, plotting behind your back, invading your space and personal boundaries with "useful" suggestions and attempts to micromanage.

This is the quintessential "DC woman" type. I don't know how husbands survive with them.

I only found my inner peace after moving to Midwest. Men as bit...es here but women are fine

Oh my god, yes. Never did I feel more shame about my dysfunctional family than when I worked on a contract with a faux-welcoming klatch of girl boss managers who were all vying for promotion. Somehow they all came from large families with sisters/best friends and had grandparents with beach houses. I faked it as well as I could but every cell in my body was screaming by the end of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I avoid those women like the plague, because I'm 45 and can't stand that particular personality.

BUT

A lot of these women, OP, are actually kind-hearted and tolerant. It's not their fault they were born to have lots of energy and leadership and social aspirations. Would you judge a man for being like that? Don't treat women differently.

ALSO

Like attracts like. Are YOU like this, or do you aspire to be that way, and are you jealous of these women? Because none of my friends are like this.

OP here. I agree that many of them are actually decent people and that it is not their fault they are like this. I can tell that they cannot help it and that some of their negative behaviors are caused by either being oblivious to the fact that other people lack their resources (including energy and social skills) or that it may be driven by anxiety or ADHD or some other issue that causes them to push and push even when people are saying, directly, please stop.

I know I am passing judgment on them but I'm genuinely trying not to. The problem is that their specific personality involves crossing boundaries, pushing for change, and trying to control situations, which means that their behavior impacts me.

I have soul searched and been to therapy and I truly am not like this. I think they are drawn to me because of a specific kind of passivity I developed growing up with parents who have some of these qualities, that attracts them. I work to not have this passivity and not attract them, and I am better at it than I used to be. Step one was actually becoming aware of these dynamics, which I'm now good at. But there is only so much I can do to change myself and my tendencies, and the truth is that people like this trigger survival instincts in me that can be hard to control. The pushier they are, the more my "freeze" and "fawn" instincts kick in, because I'm basically afraid of these people. That's why I'm looking for venues where I just don't have to deal with them at all, so I can get a break. I know it's inevitable I will have to deal with them in some settings, but I just want some corners of my life where I am unlikely to come across someone like this and I can let my guard down and be myself, which is something I struggle to do around people like this.

I am absolutely jealous of certain things these women possess, but that doesn't change the fact that their personality does not mesh well with mine and that being around people like this a lot is not great for me. It is what it is. Women like this are often extremely well resourced in ways I will never be and of course I sometimes envy that. I do not envy their positions of authority or their personalities though.

OP you dropped a point in your original post that I think needs to expanding. “Super involved grandparents,” which in my mind translates to “from here.” In the vast majority of cases these women that you describe are native Washingtonians who maybe went away to college but have never really lived anywhere else. Their provincialism is a big part of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that they keep trying to recruit you. These women always HATE me and I don't know why.
I volunteered at an event being run by one of these. At the end I approached her and said "Kitchens all clean. You did a great job organizing the craft fair" and she replied "Thank you SO much. Compliments from YOU are what make it all worthwhile" as her minions giggled. I spent the next week wracking my brain trying to think of how I might have offended her.

They don't hate you. They just know you're not going to buy their bullshit. The people they truly think less of are the ones they're trying to recruit to their little club. Not as full members (there can be only one!), but as underlings/flying monkeys.

You... You don't fit in because they can't manipulate you. So you get excluded and can't sit with them at the mean girls table. It's not a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:man's perspective - if women fitting this description are attractive, which they usually are, the bossy, queen bee thing is super hot.

Men mistake tits and an attitude problem/personality disorder for power. Men are easy to deceive... for a time.

[Anonymous]

NP. Internalized misogyny is always so deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any tips for how I find a woman like this? I'm a woman with major mommy issues (mine was extremely emotionally distant and hateful towards me and either tried to set me up to fail or ignored me, according to her whim). I'm not even kidding. I actually love overbearing women who take me under their wing and I feel a deep lack of one in my life right now.

OP here. I honestly wish I could meet you IRL and hand off the ones in my life to you. You are exactly what they are looking for. My dad was distant and disdainful, but my mom was overbearing in much the way these women are. I do think that's why I attract them -- I spent so much of my childhood appeasing a woman with these tendencies and I think I just fall into it sometimes and they like it. But the result is that they will attempt to "guide" and "mold" me the way my mom always used to, and I will emotionally feel the way I did as a teenager when I realized how much I hated being controlled in that way (and the inherent judgment implied by someone constantly telling you "no, do it like *this*"). It's just never a good situation but every few years I seem to encounter a woman like this who latches on to me and tries to turn me into her sidekick or minion. I've learned to detach and avoid but that's also work. I just want a break.

PP here. It's cracking me up how we had the same parent dynamic, but in reverse. I attract very overbearing men who want to completely make over my entire existence and I end up rebelling against them and running away while they tighten their deathgrip. Basically, I attract the male equivalent of the women you attract and I'm similarly repelled by these men. That was my dynamic with my father.

With women, I end up performing for their love while they stand back and eye me critically without offering any help or kindness. The exact same way my mother used to. I really just want them to take me under their wing and spend time with me. I'm always trying to heal that mommy wound that taught me women don't find me worthwhile. I'm aware of this now in my 40s.

Is your dynamic with men similar to your dynamic with your distant father?

It is funny -- we have a lot of the same childhood issues but yes, manifesting in different ways. I absolutely am drawn to distant men and have no idea what to do with a guy who is very effusive or forthcoming or emotional -- when I was dating those men were an instant turnoff and also I never found their emotional availability genuine, I always perceived it as fake or manipulative. Not sure if that is because my dad was so distant and withholding so that's what I was used to from men, or if it was because my mom was very emotional but in an often manipulative way. Probably both.

The funny thing is that what you say about feeling like you have to perform for female friendship -- I have definitely felt that way before. Not sure I feel that way now. At this point I've learned I don't want to be friends with these very overbearing, controlling women and I need to avoid them, but I still struggle with getting away from them for some reason, and they still often seem interested in me and I don't know why. I don't know, I'm a work in progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that they keep trying to recruit you. These women always HATE me and I don't know why.
I volunteered at an event being run by one of these. At the end I approached her and said "Kitchens all clean. You did a great job organizing the craft fair" and she replied "Thank you SO much. Compliments from YOU are what make it all worthwhile" as her minions giggled. I spent the next week wracking my brain trying to think of how I might have offended her.

She's either a rude kahnt, or you did actually do some BS and didn't realize it/don't want to admit it.

Nah. If she wasn't upset enough to tell pp to their face, it wasn't pp's fault. She's just a gossip trollop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that they keep trying to recruit you. These women always HATE me and I don't know why.
I volunteered at an event being run by one of these. At the end I approached her and said "Kitchens all clean. You did a great job organizing the craft fair" and she replied "Thank you SO much. Compliments from YOU are what make it all worthwhile" as her minions giggled. I spent the next week wracking my brain trying to think of how I might have offended her.

I think I know. By complimenting her, you suggested that you're in a position to evaluate her efforts (big no no). In an ultra-competitive person's worldview, that's a subtle way of suggesting you're her equal (bigger no no) or even elevating yourself above her (biggest no no). Also, calling attention to the fact that you cleaned the kitchen might have been perceived as a way of trying to seize glory for yourself when you should've been admiring her for all that she did.

I'm the PP with mommy issues and my mom was like this. The only way to get on the good side of person like this is to talk to them the way you would a Very Important Person. Speak when spoken to, smile a lot, and let them steer the conversation. Tiring, I know.

I think you're exactly right. You are a social wizard! I wish I had you on my shoulder because I'm always making faux pas like these.

Letting a nasty betch out herself isn't your faux pas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I avoid those women like the plague, because I'm 45 and can't stand that particular personality.

BUT

A lot of these women, OP, are actually kind-hearted and tolerant. It's not their fault they were born to have lots of energy and leadership and social aspirations. Would you judge a man for being like that? Don't treat women differently.

ALSO

Like attracts like. Are YOU like this, or do you aspire to be that way, and are you jealous of these women? Because none of my friends are like this.

OP here. I agree that many of them are actually decent people and that it is not their fault they are like this. I can tell that they cannot help it and that some of their negative behaviors are caused by either being oblivious to the fact that other people lack their resources (including energy and social skills) or that it may be driven by anxiety or ADHD or some other issue that causes them to push and push even when people are saying, directly, please stop.

I know I am passing judgment on them but I'm genuinely trying not to. The problem is that their specific personality involves crossing boundaries, pushing for change, and trying to control situations, which means that their behavior impacts me.

I have soul searched and been to therapy and I truly am not like this. I think they are drawn to me because of a specific kind of passivity I developed growing up with parents who have some of these qualities, that attracts them. I work to not have this passivity and not attract them, and I am better at it than I used to be. Step one was actually becoming aware of these dynamics, which I'm now good at. But there is only so much I can do to change myself and my tendencies, and the truth is that people like this trigger survival instincts in me that can be hard to control. The pushier they are, the more my "freeze" and "fawn" instincts kick in, because I'm basically afraid of these people. That's why I'm looking for venues where I just don't have to deal with them at all, so I can get a break. I know it's inevitable I will have to deal with them in some settings, but I just want some corners of my life where I am unlikely to come across someone like this and I can let my guard down and be myself, which is something I struggle to do around people like this.

I am absolutely jealous of certain things these women possess, but that doesn't change the fact that their personality does not mesh well with mine and that being around people like this a lot is not great for me. It is what it is. Women like this are often extremely well resourced in ways I will never be and of course I sometimes envy that. I do not envy their positions of authority or their personalities though.

OP you dropped a point in your original post that I think needs to expanding. “Super involved grandparents,” which in my mind translates to “from here.” In the vast majority of cases these women that you describe are native Washingtonians who maybe went away to college but have never really lived anywhere else. Their provincialism is a big part of this.

OP here. Nope. Obviously I don't know everyone's situation but the ones I'm thinking of are from elsewhere but their parents are so involved and helpful that they will fly to DC and stay for weeks to help with kids or a house reno or the puppy they're adopting or whatever. An example conversation with one of these women might be them trying to recruit me to help with something at the school and I will explain no, I cannot help because I'm having minor surgery that week. And then she asked me if my mom would be willing to come help, 100% assuming without asking that my mom would be flying out to help our family while I was laid up.

I can't think of any of the women I have encountered like this who are native Washingtonians or even from the general area. The are much more likely to be from the Midwest or Northeast and have wound up in DC due to graduate school, their job, or their spouse's job.

[Anonymous]

OP, I hear you! You are not alone and will find your people…are you interested in any activities that have a higher ratio of men? That may help you to strategically balance the probability of running into these women. Get out of your comfort zone and try something new!
It seriously has gotten so bad for me that I wonder do I have a bias against women now because 95% of my interactions with women are comparitive and competitive, judgy, a constant power struggle and too much more. It is so exhausting you honestly don’t even want to try to meet new women because you’re literally bracing for what’s to come…or maybe find a gay husband, where do they hang out at? I know it’s stereotypical (and not always the case), but the gay guys I have run into are super funny, outgoing, engaging and they will tighten you up on your style. Lol