Big Law spouses - give me your tips and tricks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

I am the poster who made the joke about being size 4 and somehow an equity partner at a V10 deigned to make an honest woman out of me, and I agree. The responses are ridiculous.

Op I literally lol'd at your joke about deciding which kid to get rid of. I think you will be fine.

Girl, I totally appreciate what you were trying to do with your joke but you realize that mentioning size 4/v10 means you still buy into the punchline?

Girl, I think she was being sarcastic there too.

Haven’t posted before on this but I’ll buy into the joke. I was a size 2 when I married my husband. But after years of being a spouse to a Big Law partner, I am now a size 10. Haven’t been to the gym since the kids were born Andi stress eat when I’m up at 1 trying to get my own work done. True story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

OMG. Y'all need to stop. "As the spouse of an equity partner." Which means little more than ... you are not an equity partner. Or anything for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

OMG. Y'all need to stop. "As the spouse of an equity partner." Which means little more than ... you are not an equity partner. Or anything for that matter.

Yes, only equity partners are worth anything. This is exactly the point of view we are mocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We kept a nanny longer than necessary to help with the post school stuff and split after care activities. I am the mom and the one who is a partner - I billed 2k a year and did all the things but was super efficient at work and my week was like a pie, I'd stay super late Monday night doing essentially a double shift to get a head of all the work for the week and pretty late Tuesday (once I missed bed time I tried to get as much done as possible) and then got home by bedtime Wed, Thur and Friday and then I took the kids all weekend at of the house so total focus was on them. We had a weekly cleaner and didn't stress about alot of errands just focused on the kids. Now as equity partner with my own book, i have alot of hours but more control over my schedule and can be around more when the kids are teens

Peculiar spelling choice for a partner.

Meh. I'm a lawyer and I have a graduate degree in English and I write it this way sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Early Retired Big Law partner here. (Yes, equity ha ha.)

I love reading threads like these because it confirms my decision to walk away from it all so long ago.

My advice for any spouse of a big law partner would be to quit your own job and take care of the kids while the spouse banks as much as she or he can to get out of that rate race asap. What a miserable existence.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

OP, there are definitely firms where this isn’t true and being a non-eq partner is valued and viewed as another level towards full partner. Ignore the people minimizing your DH’s accomplishment and trying to scare you.

FWIW, when our kids were young we had childcare and about the other level of help you described - and we both worked. It was manageable, even if not always easy or ideal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would figure out how much I like my job and if it's not a whole heck of a lot, I would go PT or quit and follow my passions.

this is what I did. (I was a big law partner too)

First - Congrats! Second, you should evaluate how much you love your job, what you would actually do with time if you didn’t work. Quitting is not for everyone. Jobs can create stress and resentment. But not working can also be stressful and make people myopic (focused on weird things). It’s a lot to evaluate- and it depends on your personality and propensities.

[Anonymous]

I found managing a nanny to be tedious and brought up all sorts of feelings. Also a con.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First tip: accept reality. Your DH will not be able to commit to things and the instability and travel will continue as long as he is in this job. They aren’t going to get better so accept this is his and your life. As other posters have said - you and the kids lives need to function whether he is there or not.

Second: build the team. You need more help. Either a nanny, au pair, housekeeper. Pay an agency if you need to find someone good.

Third: You may want to scale back at work, quit or switch to part time. I am considering this and only have 2 kids. I have the “team” and kind of hate it. I would rather do some things myself and my kids are at the ages where they really need a parent. Elem and middle.

Fourth: Do things to make yourself happy. This may or may not be the life you signed up for. It wasn’t what I signed up for. Yes I have money but I make very good money on my own and what I thought I was getting was a true partner in raising the kids. I didn’t get that. See tip 1. Then figure out how to make yourself happy and do that. It will help with resentment.

Fifth tip: read career and family by Claudia Goldin. She’s a Harvard economist who studies these issues. She won the Nobel prize.

When did you meet your spouse if it's not what you signed up for? I mean when you met, was he not a lawyer or studying to be one? You had to have known that being with an attorney who strives to be a partner or at least successful regardless of making partner, would entail huge, personal sacrifices.


Best of luck. Many people can’t relate so be careful who you confide in and whose advice you trust. You are fortunate but also have gaping holes and it’s a big weight and responsibility to do the career and family thing alone. Society isn’t setup for this and it falls on the woman typically.

Signed, btdt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tip: accept reality. Your DH will not be able to commit to things and the instability and travel will continue as long as he is in this job. They aren’t going to get better so accept this is his and your life. As other posters have said - you and the kids lives need to function whether he is there or not.

Second: build the team. You need more help. Either a nanny, au pair, housekeeper. Pay an agency if you need to find someone good.

Third: You may want to scale back at work, quit or switch to part time. I am considering this and only have 2 kids. I have the “team” and kind of hate it. I would rather do some things myself and my kids are at the ages where they really need a parent. Elem and middle.

Fourth: Do things to make yourself happy. This may or may not be the life you signed up for. It wasn’t what I signed up for. Yes I have money but I make very good money on my own and what I thought I was getting was a true partner in raising the kids. I didn’t get that. See tip 1. Then figure out how to make yourself happy and do that. It will help with resentment.

Fifth tip: read career and family by Claudia Goldin. She’s a Harvard economist who studies these issues. She won the Nobel prize.

When did you meet your spouse if it's not what you signed up for? I mean when you met, was he not a lawyer or studying to be one? You had to have known that being with an attorney who strives to be a partner or at least successful regardless of making partner, would entail huge, personal sacrifices.


Best of luck. Many people can’t relate so be careful who you confide in and whose advice you trust. You are fortunate but also have gaping holes and it’s a big weight and responsibility to do the career and family thing alone. Society isn’t setup for this and it falls on the woman typically.

Signed, btdt

Damn. Totally screwed up on formatting:

My comment: When did you meet your spouse if it's not what you signed up for? I mean when you met, was he not a lawyer or studying to be one? You had to have known that being with an attorney who strives to be a partner or at least successful regardless of making partner, would entail huge, personal sacrifices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tip: accept reality. Your DH will not be able to commit to things and the instability and travel will continue as long as he is in this job. They aren’t going to get better so accept this is his and your life. As other posters have said - you and the kids lives need to function whether he is there or not.

Second: build the team. You need more help. Either a nanny, au pair, housekeeper. Pay an agency if you need to find someone good.

Third: You may want to scale back at work, quit or switch to part time. I am considering this and only have 2 kids. I have the “team” and kind of hate it. I would rather do some things myself and my kids are at the ages where they really need a parent. Elem and middle.

Fourth: Do things to make yourself happy. This may or may not be the life you signed up for. It wasn’t what I signed up for. Yes I have money but I make very good money on my own and what I thought I was getting was a true partner in raising the kids. I didn’t get that. See tip 1. Then figure out how to make yourself happy and do that. It will help with resentment.

Fifth tip: read career and family by Claudia Goldin. She’s a Harvard economist who studies these issues. She won the Nobel prize.

When did you meet your spouse if it's not what you signed up for? I mean when you met, was he not a lawyer or studying to be one? You had to have known that being with an attorney who strives to be a partner or at least successful regardless of making partner, would entail huge, personal sacrifices.


Best of luck. Many people can’t relate so be careful who you confide in and whose advice you trust. You are fortunate but also have gaping holes and it’s a big weight and responsibility to do the career and family thing alone. Society isn’t setup for this and it falls on the woman typically.

Signed, btdt

Damn. Totally screwed up on formatting:

My comment: When did you meet your spouse if it's not what you signed up for? I mean when you met, was he not a lawyer or studying to be one? You had to have known that being with an attorney who strives to be a partner or at least successful regardless of making partner, would entail huge, personal sacrifices.

DP here. My husband was an undergrad who thought *maybe* he wanted to be a lawyer. Even when he was in law school we never imagined he would be a big law partner. That seemed crazy. We thought he would go work in big law for a few years to pay off loans and then be done with it, like normal people.

[Anonymous]

Op here - thanks for all the replies. More than I thought would come from this. Some helpful. I have no plans on quitting my job. I make good money - mid 6 figures and I actually like my job. I am also in the camp of needing financial security in case anything were to happen to my husbands job or god forbid we were to divorce.

I think planning my life and kids lives based on the idea that dh won’t be able to help or be around is the most doable. It stinks but is a lovely surprise when he can make it.

[Anonymous]

For travel, book for traditional slower times - August, winter break, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

OP, there are definitely firms where this isn’t true and being a non-eq partner is valued and viewed as another level towards full partner. Ignore the people minimizing your DH’s accomplishment and trying to scare you.

FWIW, when our kids were young we had childcare and about the other level of help you described - and we both worked. It was manageable, even if not always easy or ideal.

Sigh. Maybe read the entire thread before spouting off. The OP wrote

Anonymous wrote:

Op - because I don’t care if he is equity or non-equity?

Because there is a huge difference between two and your post doesn't refute my point. Being a non-equity partner means you are still an employee. Being an equity partner means you are an owner - talk to any of the equity partners of the now collapse Dewey if want to understand the distinction.

If you don't know the difference, I am not sure what I can tell you. As a non-equity partner, your goal is to develop business, not only for yourself and the firm. If you don't do that, you might be able to remain as a non-equity partner but you could also as easily be shown the door. Being named non-equity partner just means you are on the right track instead of being shown the door under the up or out system most firms employ.

It sort of sounds like the OP's husband is on the right track in developing business but what matters is bringing in $$$$ into the firm. Given he is traveling to do business development, he's likely been given a budget to assist him in doing that. Billables are important but business development is just as important, if not more. If a partner bills 2000 hours at $1000. That is $2.0 million. Compare that to partner B that bills 1,500 hours at the same rate of $1000 but brings in $10, million in business. Who is more valuable to the firm?

Here's another lesson in Big Law economics. Just because your listed billing rate is $1000 doesn't mean a client is paying that rate. Lots of clients have all kinds of discounts on bills depending on the client, matter, etc. Further, just because an attorney brings in $2.0 million in billing doesn't mean that is all profit. If that billing attorney is at the NYC rate of compensation and was just paid $540K last year, in comp and benefit analysis, you roughly 3X a persons salary to determine what the expenses are for said employee to said employer. In other words, $540K costs the firm in expenses, overhead, rent, taxes, insurance, discounts, salary flowed down to junior attorneys, etc. equals $1.62 million. So in other words, that 2000 billing attorney brought in about $400K in profit. Doesn't seem as much as before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - thanks for all the replies. More than I thought would come from this. Some helpful. I have no plans on quitting my job. I make good money - mid 6 figures and I actually like my job. I am also in the camp of needing financial security in case anything were to happen to my husbands job or god forbid we were to divorce.

I think planning my life and kids lives based on the idea that dh won’t be able to help or be around is the most doable. It stinks but is a lovely surprise when he can make it.

It is so different for all big law spouses. I think it's best for all of us to not assume he will be around for any one thing, but I have never felt like a military spouse or anything. My husband is around the vast majority of the time, and now that he has more seniority he can easily shuffle his schedule around to do things like take kids to doctor's appointments. He and I always chat a lot in the mornings before the kids wake up and he has never missed a big kid's activity. So plan for the worst but don't assume it's all doom and gloom. A lot depends on how much your husband values family time and the nature of his work in terms of flexibility.

And in case anyone is wondering, yes DH is in litigation and has billed anywhere from 1900-2700 hours a year. It's not a cushy situation.