Big Law spouses - give me your tips and tricks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Guys, if OP’s husband is billing 1800-2K hours as a *new* partner, his job is very secure. He’s making the firm a s**t ton of money.

Billable hours do not always equate to a "s**t ton of money."

First, the attorney's rate per hour (i.e., the hourly rate the attorney can bill and collect) matters a great deal. To wit, if Attorney A can bill 1500 hours at an hourly rate of $1250 per hour and Attorney B can bill 2000 hours at a rate of $750, Attorney A is making the firm more money than Attorney B even though B is billing 500 more hours than A.

Second, contingent fee work (e.g., the attorney's fee equals 33% of a settlement) can create vast amounts of revenue even when the actual hours spent on the case are small.

My firm has several non-equity partners who work in specialized areas of the law and can earn more than senior partners via a combination of the first two factors I listed above. For example, we have a partner who is a sales tax expert. When he wins a big case, his contingent fee take will outstrip many senior partners' earnings in other fields.

$750 an hour x 2000 hours is 1.5M dollars. Of course there are going to be people who pull in more, but I struggle to imagine the circumstances under which a firm puts someone bringing in that much on the chopping block. Maybe a repeat of '09? OP needs to worry about her husband burning out, about her marriage, and about her own mental health far more than her husband's job security. He's doing great.

Billing hours on a case is not the same thing as "bringing in that much" work to the firm.

[Anonymous]

Aren't most big law firms phasing out equity partnerships? I thought only the tippy top ones like Cravath and Skadden still offered them.

[Anonymous]

For us the answer was for me as the non Big-law spouse to cut back my hours until I eventually just quit. DH helps out as much as he can but if he has a hearing, deposition, etc, all bets are off and everything is on me. We have weekly cleaning help and gardening help. On days when he works from home, we try to have lunch together. If you love your career, keep it, otherwise, the only way we stayed sane was for me to handle all the kids’ stuff with family or paid help when needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

I am the poster who made the joke about being size 4 and somehow an equity partner at a V10 deigned to make an honest woman out of me, and I agree. The responses are ridiculous.

Op I literally lol'd at your joke about deciding which kid to get rid of. I think you will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biggest piece of advice I can give is do what works for YOUR family, and ignore any of the judgy people around you who aren't living your life and who want to tell you what to do.
I'm a biglaw spouse and I quit my job 10 years ago,. We had a nanny and housekeeper when the kids were little. It would have continued to be doable as long as the kids were in pre-school/ elementary, but once the eldest hit middle school, it gets much more complicated.
DH travels at least once a week for work, the kids are at different schools, activities are all over town, I like to be able to cook for the family, and given all that, it made the most sense for me to step back. I work very part time now, and it works for us.

I used to think the early years wwre tough. Kids sports really pushed me over.

And tween-teen years!

[Anonymous]

My friends and I knew a guy in big law who was so busy with work that at 37 or 38 he was still a virgin. Not joking. He spent so much time working - and it paid off! He made equity partner at 38! - he did not even find time to lose his virginity. As you can imagine, by mid- to late-30s, most women he dated found this a turnoff. He told us he would be honest with women and they were like "Ummmm....okay bye" so he finally just had sex with a woman and told her it was his first time after the fact LOL.

Anyway he did eventually get married and become a dad in his early 40s but I can't imagine. Big law takes a lot out of everyone involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go back in time and have fewer kids, or quit your job.

Big Law partnership is winning a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Good luck.

OP - thanks I will try and select which kid to get rid of.

I don't know why this person is being so unhelpful. I'm a biglaw spouse and I work as well. It's just a matter of making sure you have support around the clock.

That sounds miserable to me. Most biglaw partners have SAH wives or they work very part-time. Its not fair, it just is. The biglaw female partner that works with my husband has an au pair for her teenagers, I guess so her husband can keep his low paid job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Guys, if OP’s husband is billing 1800-2K hours as a *new* partner, his job is very secure. He’s making the firm a s**t ton of money.

Billable hours do not always equate to a "s**t ton of money."

First, the attorney's rate per hour (i.e., the hourly rate the attorney can bill and collect) matters a great deal. To wit, if Attorney A can bill 1500 hours at an hourly rate of $1250 per hour and Attorney B can bill 2000 hours at a rate of $750, Attorney A is making the firm more money than Attorney B even though B is billing 500 more hours than A.

Second, contingent fee work (e.g., the attorney's fee equals 33% of a settlement) can create vast amounts of revenue even when the actual hours spent on the case are small.

My firm has several non-equity partners who work in specialized areas of the law and can earn more than senior partners via a combination of the first two factors I listed above. For example, we have a partner who is a sales tax expert. When he wins a big case, his contingent fee take will outstrip many senior partners' earnings in other fields.

$750 an hour x 2000 hours is 1.5M dollars. Of course there are going to be people who pull in more, but I struggle to imagine the circumstances under which a firm puts someone bringing in that much on the chopping block. Maybe a repeat of '09? OP needs to worry about her husband burning out, about her marriage, and about her own mental health far more than her husband's job security. He's doing great.

The issue is not good times but bad times. In bad times, this hypothetical person will be billing less and not doing anything to give the firm confidence that s/he will bring in more work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends and I knew a guy in big law who was so busy with work that at 37 or 38 he was still a virgin. Not joking. He spent so much time working - and it paid off! He made equity partner at 38! - he did not even find time to lose his virginity. As you can imagine, by mid- to late-30s, most women he dated found this a turnoff. He told us he would be honest with women and they were like "Ummmm....okay bye" so he finally just had sex with a woman and told her it was his first time after the fact LOL.

Anyway he did eventually get married and become a dad in his early 40s but I can't imagine. Big law takes a lot out of everyone involved.

I mean. To be clear that guy was probably clearing $5M annually once he made partner. I get no one wants to be taking a guy's virginity in their 30s but come on. Have a sense of self-preservation. I'd find a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

I am the poster who made the joke about being size 4 and somehow an equity partner at a V10 deigned to make an honest woman out of me, and I agree. The responses are ridiculous.

Op I literally lol'd at your joke about deciding which kid to get rid of. I think you will be fine.

Girl, I totally appreciate what you were trying to do with your joke but you realize that mentioning size 4/v10 means you still buy into the punchline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We kept a nanny longer than necessary to help with the post school stuff and split after care activities. I am the mom and the one who is a partner - I billed 2k a year and did all the things but was super efficient at work and my week was like a pie, I'd stay super late Monday night doing essentially a double shift to get a head of all the work for the week and pretty late Tuesday (once I missed bed time I tried to get as much done as possible) and then got home by bedtime Wed, Thur and Friday and then I took the kids all weekend at of the house so total focus was on them. We had a weekly cleaner and didn't stress about alot of errands just focused on the kids. Now as equity partner with my own book, i have alot of hours but more control over my schedule and can be around more when the kids are teens

Peculiar spelling choice for a partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

pp who apologized here - ignore this OP. This is the kind of ridiculous upward striving you should not care about.

And I say this as the spouse of an equity partner, since that apparently matters to some people.

I am the poster who made the joke about being size 4 and somehow an equity partner at a V10 deigned to make an honest woman out of me, and I agree. The responses are ridiculous.

Op I literally lol'd at your joke about deciding which kid to get rid of. I think you will be fine.

Girl, I totally appreciate what you were trying to do with your joke but you realize that mentioning size 4/v10 means you still buy into the punchline?

Girl, I think she was being sarcastic there too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go back in time and have fewer kids, or quit your job.

Big Law partnership is winning a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Good luck.

OP - thanks I will try and select which kid to get rid of.

I don't know why this person is being so unhelpful. I'm a biglaw spouse and I work as well. It's just a matter of making sure you have support around the clock.

That sounds miserable to me. Most biglaw partners have SAH wives or they work very part-time. Its not fair, it just is. The biglaw female partner that works with my husband has an au pair for her teenagers, I guess so her husband can keep his low paid job.

my DH's father worked day and night for a business that ultimately went bankrupt. We're lucky.

[Anonymous]

Quit the “girl” crap.