Big Law spouses - give me your tips and tricks

[Anonymous]

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

[Anonymous]

Guys, if OP’s husband is billing 1800-2K hours as a *new* partner, his job is very secure. He’s making the firm a s**t ton of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with the post with the bullets. I would also seriously consider quitting my job if I were you. I very rarely give women that advice but one spouse with a big job + three kids is the point at which the other spouse working (unless they are also a really high earner) become a bit untenable IMO. It is not really fair but if the choice is between feeling like I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off low-key hating my husband and not working and having more personal and familial peace, I would choose the latter. I am a female attorney FWIW.

OP’s husband is not an equity partner..yet. I would not quit until he makes real partner.

You guys act like he's about to be fired. Ffs.

Her husband could go all the way and become partner and earn millions or burn out and become a fed. I wouldn’t make plans that he will definitely make it to partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP with the post with the bullets. I would also seriously consider quitting my job if I were you. I very rarely give women that advice but one spouse with a big job + three kids is the point at which the other spouse working (unless they are also a really high earner) become a bit untenable IMO. It is not really fair but if the choice is between feeling like I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off low-key hating my husband and not working and having more personal and familial peace, I would choose the latter. I am a female attorney FWIW.

OP’s husband is not an equity partner..yet. I would not quit until he makes real partner.

You guys act like he's about to be fired. Ffs.

Her husband could go all the way and become partner and earn millions or burn out and become a fed. I wouldn’t make plans that he will definitely make it to partner.

Please no. We feds don't need any more of these joining the ranks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My number one tip is for you and your dh to prioritize your marriage. If you want to stay married, you must carve out some couple time, no matter what. Your kids are young, so it’s easy to focus on them, work, household responsibilities, etc., and put your spouse on the back burner. Don’t fall into that trap!

+100

This is what I was going to say!! Although PP said not to put your spouse on the backburner, but I would say not to let your spouse put *you* on the backburner. I love my spouse so much and I hate that he's so stressed so my first instinct was to not be a "burden" by asking for time with him. That was not a good idea. Things got so much better after I started putting my marriage rather than his convenience first.

Absolutely, BOTH spouses need to prioritize the marriage or there will be problems. It’s so easy for anyone to take their spouse for granted and assume that because you vowed to be together for life, you’re good and you just need to get through this busy season of life, when your careers are on an upward trajectory and your children are young. Unfortunately for many people, burnout and midlife crises pop up right around the time the kids start to be more independent and parents are hitting their stride professionally. You’ve got to prioritize the marital relationship during the period when doing so is the most challenging.

[Anonymous]

Go back in time and have fewer kids, or quit your job.

Big Law partnership is winning a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand why people with dual intense careers have three kids rather than stopping at one or two.

Hire a nanny, is the answer.

Non equity partner is not really partner. You know that right?

Damn you really didn't need to hit her with that.

One of my favorite DCUM posts of all time included a line about "If you want to marry a partner at a V10, you need to be a size 0 or 2. If you're a size 4 you can probably marry someone at a V30. Gross." I like to think it was a joke - because I am a size 4 married to an equity partner at a V10 - and to this day I still laugh about it. But it may not have been a joke in which case, yikes.

That's hilarious, I'm a size 2 married to a V30 equity partner.

I'm so sorry. At least he's equity tho? Praying for u.

Never mention the name of the firm. Here's hoping he laterals to a V10 someday.

/s

What in the blazes are the two PPs talking about? Why would I care if my husband laterals into a V10 someday?

OP here

And that attitude is why you're married to a non-equity partner.

Op - because I don’t care if he is equity or non-equity? I have my own life outside of my husbands work. I work full time as a director and have 3 kids.

OP. I'm PP and I apologize. I was making fun of an attitude in biglaw that you clearly do not suffer from, namely the constant upward striving to ridiculous proportions.

To put it into perspective, your husband is doing incredibly well to have made partner. It does not really matter at this point whether it is equity or non-equity as these things do not imply the same things they used to.

And re your original question, I operate as if my husband doesn't exist. We have multiple nannies and support staff to keep our family going. He cannot be available for anything. That's pretty much the life of anyone successful in biglaw. It's not a lifestyle job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go back in time and have fewer kids, or quit your job.

Big Law partnership is winning a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Good luck.

OP - thanks I will try and select which kid to get rid of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go back in time and have fewer kids, or quit your job.

Big Law partnership is winning a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Good luck.

OP - thanks I will try and select which kid to get rid of.

I don't know why this person is being so unhelpful. I'm a biglaw spouse and I work as well. It's just a matter of making sure you have support around the clock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Guys, if OP’s husband is billing 1800-2K hours as a *new* partner, his job is very secure. He’s making the firm a s**t ton of money.

Billable hours do not always equate to a "s**t ton of money."

First, the attorney's rate per hour (i.e., the hourly rate the attorney can bill and collect) matters a great deal. To wit, if Attorney A can bill 1500 hours at an hourly rate of $1250 per hour and Attorney B can bill 2000 hours at a rate of $750, Attorney A is making the firm more money than Attorney B even though B is billing 500 more hours than A.

Second, contingent fee work (e.g., the attorney's fee equals 33% of a settlement) can create vast amounts of revenue even when the actual hours spent on the case are small.

My firm has several non-equity partners who work in specialized areas of the law and can earn more than senior partners via a combination of the first two factors I listed above. For example, we have a partner who is a sales tax expert. When he wins a big case, his contingent fee take will outstrip many senior partners' earnings in other fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You should because there is a huge difference in income. So it is insanely different. Non-equity is just a nice word for "service" partner or employee. Maybe he develops enough business to be move up the ranks to equity partner but right now there isn't much difference between non-equity partner and senior associate except he gets invited to the partners retreat.

You are a real peach. What is the source of your obvious insecurity? At both my DH's big law firm and my own, there is a big difference between a non-equity partner and a senior associate. In fact, at my DH's firm you cannot move directly from associate to equity partner, and the salary, bonus structure and job security are all better for a non-equity partner. It's true that, like OP's DH, non-equity partners still have kill themselves to take the next step - but they are on right path, if that's what they even want. I have never wanted to be an equity partner, but my DH is one and I am lawyer so I do have familiarity with the ins and outs of private practice.

OP, when we were in your shoes, my DH did what he could and we had help at home from 3-7 pm from Mon-Thurs, mostly to share driving for kids' activities as they became older.

Oh, I sorry reality isn't something you want to recognize. As a non-equity partner you are at the whims of the partnership and can be fired for any legitimate reason. Is it going in the right track? Sure. I didn't argue that but OP's husband is basically still being reviewed as to whether he wins the pie eating contest to win his prize of more pie.

Until he moves over to the K1 side of the ledger he's no different than a senior associate beyond he's farther along the track. Only when he gets the offer to buys in (and depwnding on the firm that could be 7 figures) does getting that title of "partner" really matter..

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

+1. This is true of all firms of which I have been a part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Guys, if OP’s husband is billing 1800-2K hours as a *new* partner, his job is very secure. He’s making the firm a s**t ton of money.

Billable hours do not always equate to a "s**t ton of money."

First, the attorney's rate per hour (i.e., the hourly rate the attorney can bill and collect) matters a great deal. To wit, if Attorney A can bill 1500 hours at an hourly rate of $1250 per hour and Attorney B can bill 2000 hours at a rate of $750, Attorney A is making the firm more money than Attorney B even though B is billing 500 more hours than A.

Second, contingent fee work (e.g., the attorney's fee equals 33% of a settlement) can create vast amounts of revenue even when the actual hours spent on the case are small.

My firm has several non-equity partners who work in specialized areas of the law and can earn more than senior partners via a combination of the first two factors I listed above. For example, we have a partner who is a sales tax expert. When he wins a big case, his contingent fee take will outstrip many senior partners' earnings in other fields.

$750 an hour x 2000 hours is 1.5M dollars. Of course there are going to be people who pull in more, but I struggle to imagine the circumstances under which a firm puts someone bringing in that much on the chopping block. Maybe a repeat of '09? OP needs to worry about her husband burning out, about her marriage, and about her own mental health far more than her husband's job security. He's doing great.

[Anonymous]

First tip: accept reality. Your DH will not be able to commit to things and the instability and travel will continue as long as he is in this job. They aren’t going to get better so accept this is his and your life. As other posters have said - you and the kids lives need to function whether he is there or not.

Second: build the team. You need more help. Either a nanny, au pair, housekeeper. Pay an agency if you need to find someone good.

Third: You may want to scale back at work, quit or switch to part time. I am considering this and only have 2 kids. I have the “team” and kind of hate it. I would rather do some things myself and my kids are at the ages where they really need a parent. Elem and middle.

Fourth: Do things to make yourself happy. This may or may not be the life you signed up for. It wasn’t what I signed up for. Yes I have money but I make very good money on my own and what I thought I was getting was a true partner in raising the kids. I didn’t get that. See tip 1. Then figure out how to make yourself happy and do that. It will help with resentment.

Fifth tip: read career and family by Claudia Goldin. She’s a Harvard economist who studies these issues. She won the Nobel prize.


Best of luck. Many people can’t relate so be careful who you confide in and whose advice you trust. You are fortunate but also have gaping holes and it’s a big weight and responsibility to do the career and family thing alone. Society isn’t setup for this and it falls on the woman typically.

Signed, btdt