Our daughter “married well.” Nobody is happy about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing you are more unhappy about it than she is. If I was balancing career, marriage, and kids and my mom wanted to talk to me every day, often complaining about how far away I lived, that would stress me out too. She may be exaggerating to appease you since you seem obsessed with this. She also may be just stressed like most dual-earning households with young kids.

My parents moved close to me (actually moved to be close to my children, let’s be honest) and it’s more work and more stress for me. I still use after school care, baby sitters, camps, etc. but now I have to constantly manage my mother’s feeling and judgement about how I prioritize my time or live my life.

This. My wife and I are happily married with kids and dual careers, and we live far enough from both our parents that we see them maybe twice a year. I think on balance we like having some distance. We briefly lived closer and it was blessedly wonderful for connection but also came with a lot of baggage. My sister and her husband are like us marriage, career and kid wise, but they have lived in the same town as both sets of their parents and I think it often drives them a little crazy.

Nobody is suggesting the extreme of never leaving the town you grew up in. There are a lot of high-achieving options short of moving across the country, away from both sets of grandparents. I don’t know why “marrying well” is conflated with abandoning your family to job hop 500 or a couple thousand miles away. There is nothing well about isolating yourself, having no family immediately there for you, and depriving grandparents so $15 an hour strangers can raise your kid(s).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1. You make great points, OP.

2. But people find identity and fulfillment in their career. Your daughter and son-in-law probably have professional ambitions and aspirations and they're working towards that, putting sweat equity to move up the ladder. Respect that choice.

3. I suppose they have reasons to live where they do. Maybe they like the nature there, or appreciate being far away from everything. Or maybe it's easier for work.

4. Kids raised by strangers. Yes, that happens 99% of the time. Daycare, school, college. Kids are nearly all raised by strangers, but education still begins at home.

5. No life situation automatically guarantees happiness. They're probably at a stressful stage in their life, with work and kids. It's probably going to come to fruition later.

6. You're far apart from each other, like many upper-class families who prioritize wealth-building and making the most out of every opportunity. Maybe you can visit more often, if they allow it!

With all the "resources" mentioned by OP so far, of she only sees her grandchild a couple of times a year, that's a conscious decision by the children. It doesn't sound like she can't visit them more often. Someone doesn't want her to visit more often

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saying you’d be happy to provide full time day care following all the parenting requirements your daughter and son in law have if they moved near you? You’d give only the foods they approve, take the kid to all the activities they want, follow their screen limits, toy rules, etc?

Are you kidding, of course I would happily provide any day care duties. Just as my parents and my husband’s parents were always nearby and there for me when our children were growing up. It’s not just day care or providing a helping hand, it’s proximity to be there and watch them grow up. It’s painful to be so far away and know strangers are raising a grandchild. I keep using “strangers” because that is what is happening. I am not anti day care, I am underscoring how un-well “marrying well” turned out to be.

Another user asked why don’t we move near them: Because they are fairly rootless workaholics and go where their careers take them. They will likely bounce around and job hop for the next 30 years.

No, they’re strangers to you.

The caregivers at our childrens’ daycare were not strangers to us at all. We knew and trusted them. It certainly wasn’t perfect, but we absolutely knew who was caring for our kids.

We can agree to disagree. And you can rationalize it however you’d like. It is paying large sums of money to lower class strangers to raise your child(ren) instead of you and/or grandparents, i.e. family, raising them. All so you could net more HHI and/or live far away from your parents.

Holy crap, lady. I have no idea why your daughter is living the way she is except to say that you sound like a snobby elitist. Maybe she’s simply reaping what you sowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone probably told her she could have it all and that's what she's trying to do. Wonder who that could have been?

You cut to the core of it, I suppose. Did we instill these values in her. Or did outside pressures; the culture of the colleges she attended, the friend groups and work colleagues, her generation. I don’t know. I just miss my granddaughter and it makes me sad that I only get to see my granddaughter and daughter a few times a year. And my daughter’s marriage is eroding. And all for what exactly? So a handful of other rootless careerists can be envious of the things on her and her husband’s LinkedIn? I just don’t get it and I don’t get why so many other young people are chasing this “ideal”.

My mother thought this about my sister's marriage and convinced me that they were making bad decisions about work, childcare, were miserable etc. I thought their marriage would be lucky to last to their child's graduation from high school. It was only until I moved closer and got to see what their daily life really was like to see this was all my mother's warped perception. She didn't like their choices because she wasn't allowed to be involved in their lives to the extent she wanted to be.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t you move to be near them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you saying you’d be happy to provide full time day care following all the parenting requirements your daughter and son in law have if they moved near you? You’d give only the foods they approve, take the kid to all the activities they want, follow their screen limits, toy rules, etc?

Are you kidding, of course I would happily provide any day care duties. Just as my parents and my husband’s parents were always nearby and there for me when our children were growing up. It’s not just day care or providing a helping hand, it’s proximity to be there and watch them grow up. It’s painful to be so far away and know strangers are raising a grandchild. I keep using “strangers” because that is what is happening. I am not anti day care, I am underscoring how un-well “marrying well” turned out to be.

Another user asked why don’t we move near them: Because they are fairly rootless workaholics and go where their careers take them. They will likely bounce around and job hop for the next 30 years.

No, they’re strangers to you.

The caregivers at our childrens’ daycare were not strangers to us at all. We knew and trusted them. It certainly wasn’t perfect, but we absolutely knew who was caring for our kids.

We can agree to disagree. And you can rationalize it however you’d like. It is paying large sums of money to lower class strangers to raise your child(ren) instead of you and/or grandparents, i.e. family, raising them. All so you could net more HHI and/or live far away from your parents.

What now?

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree with you that they may be missing the forest for the trees in terms of happiness and a joyful family life that best supports the mental health of their kids.

Two things I would ask:
1. Is it possible the inheritance you expect to leave is less significant than you realize? Everything costs a fortune today and no one has job security.

2. Why don’t you stay in a long term hotel near them for a month, try to respect their boundaries and offer your help with minimal expectations?

[Anonymous]

OP, your daughter is probably complaining to you because negativity attracts negativity. My mom is the most negative person I know and talking to her can be a chore. So, I unload and complain and then move on. My life is fine but I doubt my mom realizes that.

[Anonymous]

She had to go out and get herself a Big Job lest she end up in a "lower class stranger" type of job. Wonder why.

[Anonymous]

I’m shocked she doesn’t visit you more, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1. You make great points, OP.

2. But people find identity and fulfillment in their career. Your daughter and son-in-law probably have professional ambitions and aspirations and they're working towards that, putting sweat equity to move up the ladder. Respect that choice.

3. I suppose they have reasons to live where they do. Maybe they like the nature there, or appreciate being far away from everything. Or maybe it's easier for work.

4. Kids raised by strangers. Yes, that happens 99% of the time. Daycare, school, college. Kids are nearly all raised by strangers, but education still begins at home.

5. No life situation automatically guarantees happiness. They're probably at a stressful stage in their life, with work and kids. It's probably going to come to fruition later.

6. You're far apart from each other, like many upper-class families who prioritize wealth-building and making the most out of every opportunity. Maybe you can visit more often, if they allow it!

I suspect this is all easy to rationalize until elderly parents get sick or abruptly die and you realize that was it. And/or God forbid one of the careerists gets sick from cancer and nobody is there to help. Or a divorce puts things into perspective. Life is short and precious. Value your family over another rung up the ladder or another passport stamp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone probably told her she could have it all and that's what she's trying to do. Wonder who that could have been?

You cut to the core of it, I suppose. Did we instill these values in her. Or did outside pressures; the culture of the colleges she attended, the friend groups and work colleagues, her generation. I don’t know. I just miss my granddaughter and it makes me sad that I only get to see my granddaughter and daughter a few times a year. And my daughter’s marriage is eroding. And all for what exactly? So a handful of other rootless careerists can be envious of the things on her and her husband’s LinkedIn? I just don’t get it and I don’t get why so many other young people are chasing this “ideal”.

Have you worked outside the home, OP?

This is why I have always been a working mother: I value my education, the skills I developed, and my self-sufficiency. It makes me feel safe and self-confident to know that I support our family well in ways that include e.g., saving for college, saving for retirement, going on nice vacations, helping extended family if they need it, and giving our kids extras including e.g., music lessons, sports activities, and other such life-enriching pursuits. My husband and I are true partners in our joint project of raising the family and our kids see that men and women both work and provide childcare and handle cooking, housekeeping, etc. and that these tasks are not gendered by nature. That said, should my marriage implode tomorrow, I will be fine financially because I have great skills and competence.

Although U.S. policies don't support dual-income families vis-a-vis e.g. maternity care and childcare, that doesn't mean that marriages "erode" because it's hard to balance everything. If your daughter's marriage is in trouble (how do you know this exactly?), it is not because she is a working mother. There are other issues there. (If she divorced, she would need too work for sure.)

Regarding those "lower class strangers" who care for your grandchild: They are only "lower class" because our society undervalues their work, largely because it is work performed historically by women. Were it not for these "strangers" working across the country providing childcare and other necessary tasks to keep the home front going, our entire economy would implode.

Do you have the same disdain for the teachers who are strangers to us and "raise" our children?

[Anonymous]

^^^ 13:17 here. Also? I like my work. I spent years training to do this work, and it helps our society. It keeps me engaged intellectually in the world and with other people. Of course, my children are important, just as they are important to my husband. But other things are important to me as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing you are more unhappy about it than she is. If I was balancing career, marriage, and kids and my mom wanted to talk to me every day, often complaining about how far away I lived, that would stress me out too. She may be exaggerating to appease you since you seem obsessed with this. She also may be just stressed like most dual-earning households with young kids.

My parents moved close to me (actually moved to be close to my children, let’s be honest) and it’s more work and more stress for me. I still use after school care, baby sitters, camps, etc. but now I have to constantly manage my mother’s feeling and judgement about how I prioritize my time or live my life.

This. My wife and I are happily married with kids and dual careers, and we live far enough from both our parents that we see them maybe twice a year. I think on balance we like having some distance. We briefly lived closer and it was blessedly wonderful for connection but also came with a lot of baggage. My sister and her husband are like us marriage, career and kid wise, but they have lived in the same town as both sets of their parents and I think it often drives them a little crazy.

Nobody is suggesting the extreme of never leaving the town you grew up in. There are a lot of high-achieving options short of moving across the country, away from both sets of grandparents. I don’t know why “marrying well” is conflated with abandoning your family to job hop 500 or a couple thousand miles away. There is nothing well about isolating yourself, having no family immediately there for you, and depriving grandparents so $15 an hour strangers can raise your kid(s).

No one does this but you, OP. Marrying well (and what an anachronistic notion that is) has to do with the choice of partner. What that partnership does, and where they choose to do it, is completely separate. Plenty of people "marry well" and stay near their family.

You seem to be dancing around your SIG having sole responsibility for where they live. Is that what you're saying? He's forcing all of this on your daughter?

Regardless, as other PPs have said, if they indeed could have the same careers in close proximity to you, it's worth wondering why they don't. Maybe it's because there aren't the same opportunities near you - or maybe there's some other reason, that they don't want to tell you. (Based on your posts here, my money is on that, but it doesn't seem like you're capable of that kind of self-reflection.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you that they may be missing the forest for the trees in terms of happiness and a joyful family life that best supports the mental health of their kids.

Two things I would ask:
1. Is it possible the inheritance you expect to leave is less significant than you realize? Everything costs a fortune today and no one has job security.

2. Why don’t you stay in a long term hotel near them for a month, try to respect their boundaries and offer your help with minimal expectations?

Yeah, it sure seems like living near Op would be all sunshine and rainbows.