Terrified and depressed due to downward mobility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you move? I don't get staying in the area if you can't affording housing, etc.

Not OP but in similar boat (less income, but with a kid) and we would very much like to move. Currently DH's job is tied to the area with now fully remote option. I have moved into a fully remote job over the last few years to prepare us for a move. But it's not like it's super easy to just relocate. We are in our 40s with a child, we have tons of connections to this area after going to school and then living here for over two decades. I'm still not convinced my DH won't get cold feet, and I have nerves myself. Our families are both very dysfunctional and live in extremely remote places, so the option of just moving closer to them isn't really on the table, though we are considering a city about 4 hours from his family. Figuring out how to move his job is going to be tricky and there's a strong chance he'll basically need to shift industries if we move, since what he does isn't really a thing in most LCOL areas.

We have to juggle jobs, schools, some connection to the community, making new friends and networks in our 40s. Our kid has a hobby that is important to them -- I have to make sure they can still do that in some capacity.

What people don't get is that as recently as 10-15 years ago, DC was considered a LCOL alternative to NY/LA/SF. Some of us chose it over NY or LA (I did) specifically because our money went further here and we could see building a family here after college or grad school in a way we couldn't see those other places. But then a couple poorly timed layoffs, some shifts in our industry, and Covid, and here we are living in a city that is honestly too pricy for us but at a stage in life where just picking up and moving somewhere else is much easier said than done.

"Just move" sounds obvious but if it were that easy, everyone would just do it.

We all know it is not easy and face the same issues. If you want to improve your life, be an adult and make the hard decisions. DC has been more affordable than NY, LA and SF but it was never considered a lcol area and now it is too much for you. I remember in the 60s or 70s the housing shortage was insane in this area.

Eff off, seriously. I just wrote a long post explaining that we are working on moving and then explaining the issues involved to point out it's easier said than done, and your response is "be an adult and make the hard decisions." Really? I think adults have empathy and don't just dismiss someone who is being self-reflective and honest. If you don't want to read about people struggling with these issues, maybe don't click on a thread that is literally about people struggling with these issues.

Being an adult is not the same thing as being an a$$hole, I don't know if anyone has told you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if OP is trolling or not, but I do actually feel this way. We make less money, though -- 150k (DH 100k, me 50k). I used to make more but the reality of trying to parent kids while you both work was overwhelming. We already had no margin for error because even with an income around 200k, childcare was tight. And then Covid hit. So now I work part time and we pay less for childcare, but have a little more flexibility in our schedule. But yes, money is very tight. We've pretty much given up on the idea that we'll ever own a SFH (we live in a condo now) or feel comfortable financially.

I have a graduate degree and DH is in a STEM field with an Ivy League degree. I grew up UMC and he grew up working class, and while we've far surpassed his economic status as a kid, it's definitely been a step down for me. We've both struggle with our mental health and while there is a version of us that makes WAY more money without working that much harder, I think we just lack the confidence and social skills to make it happen? I feel overwhelmed a lot. I don't know, but I do feel downwardly mobile and can relate to the anxiety OP is galling about.

Op here. This is how I feel too. On one hand there is shame in not being able to replicate my parents success even though I was given all the opportunities and resources. Then there’s the depressing realization that we will ever be able to buy a SFH in a good neighborhood around here and I’ll never have the quality of life I grew up with or give my kids the same experiences.

A lot of people grow up and don’t become wealthy like their parents. My in-laws Ivy League, very wealthy. Not us though and it doesn’t bother us in the least. We are lucky that they are the most generous and kindness people in the world. He retired early and bought us a house, gifting every year, paid for all activities and tuitions for our kids, not just monetarily, they are also there for their children. They are proud of their children, none went to Ivy League or reached their level of financial success.

If your parents are wealthy hopefully they can help with the kids. Just don’t try and be something you’re not. Don’t overreach and buy in a neighborhood you can’t afford. If you stop feeling sorry for yourself your kids will have their own childhood, not a replica of yours.

If your ILs bought you a home, you are wealthy. They'll probably also help with kid's education, right? So all you and your husband need to do is make enough money to cover living expense (minus mortgage) and save for retirement. That would be so easy.

Not all UMC or wealthy parents are generous like that, either. You are lucky, but you need to understand how unusual your situation is. You're in a really ideal situation.

x10000

Seems the norm around here that grandparents pay for their kids' houses and education, and their grandchildrens' houses and education. Holy crap - you people who have that are completely out of touch and only expect more - if you were my kids, I would donate every penny to a charity that actually needs it.

My kids grandparents only play favorites. It is sickening. I can't fathom having such generous people in our lives. Just wow.

It isn't the norm. I've known 2 people who had help paying for a home. The vast majority of the people I know, scrimped and saved and didn't blow money stupidly because they knew homeownership was expensive and important. They did without to buy a townhome.

Are you sure? I used to think "everyone" saved for a down payment like we did, and that people who bought bigger, nicer, more expensive homes just saved harder.

I later found out that many of them had huge sums of money from parents to buy those homes. In the last few years I've learned that half or more of our peer group friends had major cash infusions in the form of cash gifts or inheritances that enabled them to buy their first homes. Not everyone, but at least half. I'd say it's a major factor in how some people were able to by SFHs (including close in row houses) that appreciated aggressively, versus suburban townhomes or condos that didn't appreciate as well. It also enabled people to structure loans in a more favorable way. I know one couple who saved their own downpayment but received a 10k gift from their parents every year after that to put towards the principle on their loan, so 8 years later they wound up in a much more favorable position in terms of equity and were able to upgrade to a much bigger home with really favorable loan terms. Which would not have been possible without the 70k in free cash from their parents.

None of this may be "typical" but it's not uncommon among the children of UMC families in this area. People don't always advertise this stuff and I've known people who actively concealed it (i.e. complained endlessly about the challenges of affording a home and how hard they were saving, when in reality their down payment came mostly from an inheritance). For some reason a lot of people like to kind of cosplay as middle class or make it appear to others that they are making it on their own when in reality they get enormous amounts of help from family. I've seen it many times in this area.

Not everyone came from umc families like you all like to assume. I know people don't advertise this but this is just a load of patooie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if OP is trolling or not, but I do actually feel this way. We make less money, though -- 150k (DH 100k, me 50k). I used to make more but the reality of trying to parent kids while you both work was overwhelming. We already had no margin for error because even with an income around 200k, childcare was tight. And then Covid hit. So now I work part time and we pay less for childcare, but have a little more flexibility in our schedule. But yes, money is very tight. We've pretty much given up on the idea that we'll ever own a SFH (we live in a condo now) or feel comfortable financially.

I have a graduate degree and DH is in a STEM field with an Ivy League degree. I grew up UMC and he grew up working class, and while we've far surpassed his economic status as a kid, it's definitely been a step down for me. We've both struggle with our mental health and while there is a version of us that makes WAY more money without working that much harder, I think we just lack the confidence and social skills to make it happen? I feel overwhelmed a lot. I don't know, but I do feel downwardly mobile and can relate to the anxiety OP is galling about.

Op here. This is how I feel too. On one hand there is shame in not being able to replicate my parents success even though I was given all the opportunities and resources. Then there’s the depressing realization that we will ever be able to buy a SFH in a good neighborhood around here and I’ll never have the quality of life I grew up with or give my kids the same experiences.

A lot of people grow up and don’t become wealthy like their parents. My in-laws Ivy League, very wealthy. Not us though and it doesn’t bother us in the least. We are lucky that they are the most generous and kindness people in the world. He retired early and bought us a house, gifting every year, paid for all activities and tuitions for our kids, not just monetarily, they are also there for their children. They are proud of their children, none went to Ivy League or reached their level of financial success.

If your parents are wealthy hopefully they can help with the kids. Just don’t try and be something you’re not. Don’t overreach and buy in a neighborhood you can’t afford. If you stop feeling sorry for yourself your kids will have their own childhood, not a replica of yours.

If your ILs bought you a home, you are wealthy. They'll probably also help with kid's education, right? So all you and your husband need to do is make enough money to cover living expense (minus mortgage) and save for retirement. That would be so easy.

Not all UMC or wealthy parents are generous like that, either. You are lucky, but you need to understand how unusual your situation is. You're in a really ideal situation.

x10000

Seems the norm around here that grandparents pay for their kids' houses and education, and their grandchildrens' houses and education. Holy crap - you people who have that are completely out of touch and only expect more - if you were my kids, I would donate every penny to a charity that actually needs it.

My kids grandparents only play favorites. It is sickening. I can't fathom having such generous people in our lives. Just wow.

It isn't the norm. I've known 2 people who had help paying for a home. The vast majority of the people I know, scrimped and saved and didn't blow money stupidly because they knew homeownership was expensive and important. They did without to buy a townhome.

Are you sure? I used to think "everyone" saved for a down payment like we did, and that people who bought bigger, nicer, more expensive homes just saved harder.

I later found out that many of them had huge sums of money from parents to buy those homes. In the last few years I've learned that half or more of our peer group friends had major cash infusions in the form of cash gifts or inheritances that enabled them to buy their first homes. Not everyone, but at least half. I'd say it's a major factor in how some people were able to by SFHs (including close in row houses) that appreciated aggressively, versus suburban townhomes or condos that didn't appreciate as well. It also enabled people to structure loans in a more favorable way. I know one couple who saved their own downpayment but received a 10k gift from their parents every year after that to put towards the principle on their loan, so 8 years later they wound up in a much more favorable position in terms of equity and were able to upgrade to a much bigger home with really favorable loan terms. Which would not have been possible without the 70k in free cash from their parents.

None of this may be "typical" but it's not uncommon among the children of UMC families in this area. People don't always advertise this stuff and I've known people who actively concealed it (i.e. complained endlessly about the challenges of affording a home and how hard they were saving, when in reality their down payment came mostly from an inheritance). For some reason a lot of people like to kind of cosplay as middle class or make it appear to others that they are making it on their own when in reality they get enormous amounts of help from family. I've seen it many times in this area.

Not everyone came from umc families like you all like to assume. I know people don't advertise this but this is just a load of patooie.

"A load of patooie"? You really undermine your credibility here.

Of course not "everyone" came from UMC families. The point is that many people who DO come from UMC families (like OP and others posting int his thread that is about falling out of the UMC) quietly get large cash infusions from parents and grandparents that enable them to build wealth and stay UMC. Some people are doing it just by virtue of their incomes, but a major percentage are doing it through wealth transference, not hard work.

That's why people who do not get that kind of help form their UMC families often struggle to maintain their lifestyle and wind up slipping down a rung. Even when they pursue similar careers to their parents, the rising costs and lifestyle creep of the UMC make it very hard to maintain that standard of living without either moving to a LCOL area, or getting help.

The big lie is that lots of people who grew up UMC simply went out and made and saved enough money to equal or better the lifestyles they were raised in. That's not really how it works. Often the parents/grandparents are providing start-up costs so that these people can focus on work, finding great partners, and starting families. That can make the difference between staying UMC or not. It's not all about bootstraps -- generational wealth is where it's at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are either stupid or lazy AF. We only make 150k combined but have 2 houses, 1 a rental and live very comfortably with plenty in savings and money set aside for retirement and college. Our kids are in 2 sports and we make out fine. Now, we do not eat out much, make impulse spending mistakes or spends thousands on clothes. We do vacation to fun spots but not mega budget busters like Europe or beyond. We are saving to go to Europe next year hough and it will not break our bank. You have to be smart and humble.

Not OP but much of this is dependent on location, and there are people who move to HCOL areas thinking their salaries will go up as they gain seniority, but then stagnate and they get priced out. I'm guessing you live in a LCOL area, or maybe moved to your area when real estate was much cheaper and now have cheap mortgages that make your income feasible.

I do agree with you that you have to budget properly and live within your means, but that's not really what OP is talking about. She's not saying "we go out to eat 5 nights a week and take expensive vacations but feel very poor because we can't actually afford those things." She's just saying she feels middle class after growing up UMC and it's a bad feeling. Likely there were things her parents afforded when she was a kid that now she can't afford or give to her own kids, and that's a bad feeling. It doesn't mean she lives outside her means, in fact it indicates she lives within her means but knows what it's like to have more means and that dissonance is where the unhappiness comes in.

Nothing like knowing exactly what you're missing to make it harder to be grateful for what you have, even when you have a lot compared to most people. Thus the psychological problem of downward mobility.

This is it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I grew up UMC, it is really sad and depressing for me to be middle class/lower middle class financially as a mid thirties woman. I make 110k and my husband makes 100k or so. I feel myself sliding into the dreaded MC life and it terrifies me. I always assumed I’d be upwardly mobile.

$200 000+/per annum not middle Class. Middle class us $50,000/per annum.

Actually, in DC middle class is $60,000 to $180,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if OP is trolling or not, but I do actually feel this way. We make less money, though -- 150k (DH 100k, me 50k). I used to make more but the reality of trying to parent kids while you both work was overwhelming. We already had no margin for error because even with an income around 200k, childcare was tight. And then Covid hit. So now I work part time and we pay less for childcare, but have a little more flexibility in our schedule. But yes, money is very tight. We've pretty much given up on the idea that we'll ever own a SFH (we live in a condo now) or feel comfortable financially.

I have a graduate degree and DH is in a STEM field with an Ivy League degree. I grew up UMC and he grew up working class, and while we've far surpassed his economic status as a kid, it's definitely been a step down for me. We've both struggle with our mental health and while there is a version of us that makes WAY more money without working that much harder, I think we just lack the confidence and social skills to make it happen? I feel overwhelmed a lot. I don't know, but I do feel downwardly mobile and can relate to the anxiety OP is galling about.

Op here. This is how I feel too. On one hand there is shame in not being able to replicate my parents success even though I was given all the opportunities and resources. Then there’s the depressing realization that we will ever be able to buy a SFH in a good neighborhood around here and I’ll never have the quality of life I grew up with or give my kids the same experiences.

A lot of people grow up and don’t become wealthy like their parents. My in-laws Ivy League, very wealthy. Not us though and it doesn’t bother us in the least. We are lucky that they are the most generous and kindness people in the world. He retired early and bought us a house, gifting every year, paid for all activities and tuitions for our kids, not just monetarily, they are also there for their children. They are proud of their children, none went to Ivy League or reached their level of financial success.

If your parents are wealthy hopefully they can help with the kids. Just don’t try and be something you’re not. Don’t overreach and buy in a neighborhood you can’t afford. If you stop feeling sorry for yourself your kids will have their own childhood, not a replica of yours.

If your ILs bought you a home, you are wealthy. They'll probably also help with kid's education, right? So all you and your husband need to do is make enough money to cover living expense (minus mortgage) and save for retirement. That would be so easy.

Not all UMC or wealthy parents are generous like that, either. You are lucky, but you need to understand how unusual your situation is. You're in a really ideal situation.

x10000

Seems the norm around here that grandparents pay for their kids' houses and education, and their grandchildrens' houses and education. Holy crap - you people who have that are completely out of touch and only expect more - if you were my kids, I would donate every penny to a charity that actually needs it.

My kids grandparents only play favorites. It is sickening. I can't fathom having such generous people in our lives. Just wow.

It isn't the norm. I've known 2 people who had help paying for a home. The vast majority of the people I know, scrimped and saved and didn't blow money stupidly because they knew homeownership was expensive and important. They did without to buy a townhome.

Are you sure? I used to think "everyone" saved for a down payment like we did, and that people who bought bigger, nicer, more expensive homes just saved harder.

I later found out that many of them had huge sums of money from parents to buy those homes. In the last few years I've learned that half or more of our peer group friends had major cash infusions in the form of cash gifts or inheritances that enabled them to buy their first homes. Not everyone, but at least half. I'd say it's a major factor in how some people were able to by SFHs (including close in row houses) that appreciated aggressively, versus suburban townhomes or condos that didn't appreciate as well. It also enabled people to structure loans in a more favorable way. I know one couple who saved their own downpayment but received a 10k gift from their parents every year after that to put towards the principle on their loan, so 8 years later they wound up in a much more favorable position in terms of equity and were able to upgrade to a much bigger home with really favorable loan terms. Which would not have been possible without the 70k in free cash from their parents.

None of this may be "typical" but it's not uncommon among the children of UMC families in this area. People don't always advertise this stuff and I've known people who actively concealed it (i.e. complained endlessly about the challenges of affording a home and how hard they were saving, when in reality their down payment came mostly from an inheritance). For some reason a lot of people like to kind of cosplay as middle class or make it appear to others that they are making it on their own when in reality they get enormous amounts of help from family. I've seen it many times in this area.

Not everyone came from umc families like you all like to assume. I know people don't advertise this but this is just a load of patooie.

"A load of patooie"? You really undermine your credibility here.

Of course not "everyone" came from UMC families. The point is that many people who DO come from UMC families (like OP and others posting int his thread that is about falling out of the UMC) quietly get large cash infusions from parents and grandparents that enable them to build wealth and stay UMC. Some people are doing it just by virtue of their incomes, but a major percentage are doing it through wealth transference, not hard work.

That's why people who do not get that kind of help form their UMC families often struggle to maintain their lifestyle and wind up slipping down a rung. Even when they pursue similar careers to their parents, the rising costs and lifestyle creep of the UMC make it very hard to maintain that standard of living without either moving to a LCOL area, or getting help.

The big lie is that lots of people who grew up UMC simply went out and made and saved enough money to equal or better the lifestyles they were raised in. That's not really how it works. Often the parents/grandparents are providing start-up costs so that these people can focus on work, finding great partners, and starting families. That can make the difference between staying UMC or not. It's not all about bootstraps -- generational wealth is where it's at.

It would be interesting to know how many get substantial gifts like these for down payment, children's private school tuition, college, travel, etc. I don't think it's quite as high what as you are saying, but it does occur. It depends on the family's mindset. Personally, I would always feel like there were strings attached. Also, some people overextend to try and match their lifestyle, and then the parents bail them out.

[Anonymous]

It’s very hard to buy a house in Chevy chase, join a country club, send my 2 boys to Landon, drive a BMW and a Volvo (can’t even buy a Tesla Y!), own a beach house in Bethany, go skiing in Colorado every year, and have the occasional weekend trip to the Inn at Little Washington on my income. Am I downward or mobile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because I grew up UMC, it is really sad and depressing for me to be middle class/lower middle class financially as a mid thirties woman. I make 110k and my husband makes 100k or so. I feel myself sliding into the dreaded MC life and it terrifies me. I always assumed I’d be upwardly mobile.

$200 000+/per annum not middle Class. Middle class us $50,000/per annum.

Actually, in DC middle class is $60,000 to $180,000.

$74k - $221k

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/middle-class-income-in-major-us-cities.html

OP is solidly UMC.

[Anonymous]

Did not start rich but we feel pretty well off.
1) Paid off student debt in 2 yrs after living on Ramen and Beans.
2) Cooked at home from scratch. Ate a lot of vegetarian meals.
3) Bought a lovely new SFH in an average neighborhood that we could live forever if needed.
4) Send kids to public school. Taught them at home so that they could get into magnet STEM programs.
5) Had only one cheap car (Corolla) and we kept it till it died. Bought a second car only when we had our first kid.
6) Kids went to state flagships to study STEM on scholarships.
7) Only had 2 kids. Delayed having kids because we were too poor. Never had pets because it is a cost and responsibility.
8) Did not take expensive vacations. Only started to go abroad in recent years in our 50s.
9) In our late 50s, we are able to have a secure retirement, pay for our kids college, give them both new cars that they can keep for 10 yrs or so, have told our kids to live with us to save on rent and other costs. Will pay for their weddings. Have offered to babysit if they live close by to us. Maybe give them some seed money.

My kids will have to work and live frugally. But, we already are able to give them more than what we were given. We also have told them to not expect to match our current lifestyle at late 50s, when they are in their 20s and 30s. They are starting out and they will have to be frugal and creative, just like we were.

OP, you have a lot of money. If you cannot grow wealthy on this amount of money then you are really not very smart. There is a lot of entitlement in your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because I grew up UMC, it is really sad and depressing for me to be middle class/lower middle class financially as a mid thirties woman. I make 110k and my husband makes 100k or so. I feel myself sliding into the dreaded MC life and it terrifies me. I always assumed I’d be upwardly mobile.

Please tell me what the “dreaded MC life” looks like. I’m MC (smack in the middle) and my life is pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Omg I thought you were physically having downward or losing mobility as cause of a disease or injury but this is about you earning 100k and saying you're upper class?


B I T C H PLEASE! Travel to some third world countries and gain some humility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I literally never talk about this kind of stuff with friends, ever, but last the other night I told a good friend of mine (I had too many drinks in me) that I was very proud of my 30-something son-in-law who had recently overcome some pretty significant obstacles in landing a new job where he and my daughter are now earning a combined $300k plus. They have one toddler and hope to have another and they live in the DMV. My friends insisted that that made them no higher than lower middle or middle middle class for this area. I pushed back, then they suggested that their perspective may be skewed because they associate with a lot of Biglaw attorneys. Of course, I shouldn’t have opened my big mouth at all and really wasn’t doing it to brag. I was just proud of and impressed by the guy, who has a compelling life story.

In any event, you’re not gonna convince me that a middle middle class family in the DMV brings in $300k plus.

FWIW, my husband and I make just over $300k, live in Arlington, have one kid, and our financial planner (who works with people all across the income spectrum) said we were "solidly middle class" for the DC area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I literally never talk about this kind of stuff with friends, ever, but last the other night I told a good friend of mine (I had too many drinks in me) that I was very proud of my 30-something son-in-law who had recently overcome some pretty significant obstacles in landing a new job where he and my daughter are now earning a combined $300k plus. They have one toddler and hope to have another and they live in the DMV. My friends insisted that that made them no higher than lower middle or middle middle class for this area. I pushed back, then they suggested that their perspective may be skewed because they associate with a lot of Biglaw attorneys. Of course, I shouldn’t have opened my big mouth at all and really wasn’t doing it to brag. I was just proud of and impressed by the guy, who has a compelling life story.

In any event, you’re not gonna convince me that a middle middle class family in the DMV brings in $300k plus.

FWIW, my husband and I make just over $300k, live in Arlington, have one kid, and our financial planner (who works with people all across the income spectrum) said we were "solidly middle class" for the DC area.

A 310k HHI is the 96th percentile. He probably means you’re solidly in the middle of his top-10% clientele.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. I literally never talk about this kind of stuff with friends, ever, but last the other night I told a good friend of mine (I had too many drinks in me) that I was very proud of my 30-something son-in-law who had recently overcome some pretty significant obstacles in landing a new job where he and my daughter are now earning a combined $300k plus. They have one toddler and hope to have another and they live in the DMV. My friends insisted that that made them no higher than lower middle or middle middle class for this area. I pushed back, then they suggested that their perspective may be skewed because they associate with a lot of Biglaw attorneys. Of course, I shouldn’t have opened my big mouth at all and really wasn’t doing it to brag. I was just proud of and impressed by the guy, who has a compelling life story.

In any event, you’re not gonna convince me that a middle middle class family in the DMV brings in $300k plus.

FWIW, my husband and I make just over $300k, live in Arlington, have one kid, and our financial planner (who works with people all across the income spectrum) said we were "solidly middle class" for the DC area.

Probably a good reason to get a new financial planner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if OP is trolling or not, but I do actually feel this way. We make less money, though -- 150k (DH 100k, me 50k). I used to make more but the reality of trying to parent kids while you both work was overwhelming. We already had no margin for error because even with an income around 200k, childcare was tight. And then Covid hit. So now I work part time and we pay less for childcare, but have a little more flexibility in our schedule. But yes, money is very tight. We've pretty much given up on the idea that we'll ever own a SFH (we live in a condo now) or feel comfortable financially.

I have a graduate degree and DH is in a STEM field with an Ivy League degree. I grew up UMC and he grew up working class, and while we've far surpassed his economic status as a kid, it's definitely been a step down for me. We've both struggle with our mental health and while there is a version of us that makes WAY more money without working that much harder, I think we just lack the confidence and social skills to make it happen? I feel overwhelmed a lot. I don't know, but I do feel downwardly mobile and can relate to the anxiety OP is galling about.

Op here. This is how I feel too. On one hand there is shame in not being able to replicate my parents success even though I was given all the opportunities and resources. Then there’s the depressing realization that we will ever be able to buy a SFH in a good neighborhood around here and I’ll never have the quality of life I grew up with or give my kids the same experiences.

A lot of people grow up and don’t become wealthy like their parents. My in-laws Ivy League, very wealthy. Not us though and it doesn’t bother us in the least. We are lucky that they are the most generous and kindness people in the world. He retired early and bought us a house, gifting every year, paid for all activities and tuitions for our kids, not just monetarily, they are also there for their children. They are proud of their children, none went to Ivy League or reached their level of financial success.

If your parents are wealthy hopefully they can help with the kids. Just don’t try and be something you’re not. Don’t overreach and buy in a neighborhood you can’t afford. If you stop feeling sorry for yourself your kids will have their own childhood, not a replica of yours.

If your ILs bought you a home, you are wealthy. They'll probably also help with kid's education, right? So all you and your husband need to do is make enough money to cover living expense (minus mortgage) and save for retirement. That would be so easy.

Not all UMC or wealthy parents are generous like that, either. You are lucky, but you need to understand how unusual your situation is. You're in a really ideal situation.

x10000

Seems the norm around here that grandparents pay for their kids' houses and education, and their grandchildrens' houses and education. Holy crap - you people who have that are completely out of touch and only expect more - if you were my kids, I would donate every penny to a charity that actually needs it.

My kids grandparents only play favorites. It is sickening. I can't fathom having such generous people in our lives. Just wow.

It isn't the norm. I've known 2 people who had help paying for a home. The vast majority of the people I know, scrimped and saved and didn't blow money stupidly because they knew homeownership was expensive and important. They did without to buy a townhome.

Are you sure? I used to think "everyone" saved for a down payment like we did, and that people who bought bigger, nicer, more expensive homes just saved harder.

I later found out that many of them had huge sums of money from parents to buy those homes. In the last few years I've learned that half or more of our peer group friends had major cash infusions in the form of cash gifts or inheritances that enabled them to buy their first homes. Not everyone, but at least half. I'd say it's a major factor in how some people were able to by SFHs (including close in row houses) that appreciated aggressively, versus suburban townhomes or condos that didn't appreciate as well. It also enabled people to structure loans in a more favorable way. I know one couple who saved their own downpayment but received a 10k gift from their parents every year after that to put towards the principle on their loan, so 8 years later they wound up in a much more favorable position in terms of equity and were able to upgrade to a much bigger home with really favorable loan terms. Which would not have been possible without the 70k in free cash from their parents.

None of this may be "typical" but it's not uncommon among the children of UMC families in this area. People don't always advertise this stuff and I've known people who actively concealed it (i.e. complained endlessly about the challenges of affording a home and how hard they were saving, when in reality their down payment came mostly from an inheritance). For some reason a lot of people like to kind of cosplay as middle class or make it appear to others that they are making it on their own when in reality they get enormous amounts of help from family. I've seen it many times in this area.

Not everyone came from umc families like you all like to assume. I know people don't advertise this but this is just a load of patooie.

"A load of patooie"? You really undermine your credibility here.

Of course not "everyone" came from UMC families. The point is that many people who DO come from UMC families (like OP and others posting int his thread that is about falling out of the UMC) quietly get large cash infusions from parents and grandparents that enable them to build wealth and stay UMC. Some people are doing it just by virtue of their incomes, but a major percentage are doing it through wealth transference, not hard work.

That's why people who do not get that kind of help form their UMC families often struggle to maintain their lifestyle and wind up slipping down a rung. Even when they pursue similar careers to their parents, the rising costs and lifestyle creep of the UMC make it very hard to maintain that standard of living without either moving to a LCOL area, or getting help.

The big lie is that lots of people who grew up UMC simply went out and made and saved enough money to equal or better the lifestyles they were raised in. That's not really how it works. Often the parents/grandparents are providing start-up costs so that these people can focus on work, finding great partners, and starting families. That can make the difference between staying UMC or not. It's not all about bootstraps -- generational wealth is where it's at.

You don’t know jack but love to throw this around so you can be the victim. You never had to work hard growing up and now you’re mad that you do?

This is whining. You are not unique in your “ suffering” but you certainly act as if no one has experienced this is the history of human kind.