Mean girls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small independent a Jesuit prep school that was regarded as the best school in the state. It had an incredibly kind culture and people who were mean were subjected to peer pressure to be more inclusive rather than the other way around. While mean people are everywhere, mean cultures are not inevitable, and school cultures can be dramatically different.

The culture in the DMV is one of the meanest I’ve ever encountered, and I say that as someone who grew up in another part of the country but went to grad school in DC and lived in many other places (the Bay Area, Texas, the rural mid-west, Chicago, Seattle, Boston, London, the northeast, and the Deep South) before moving back here. People here are meaner than their counterparts in other parts of of the country. They are more insecure, socially-competitive/social-climbing, and discontented than anywhere else we’ve lived. People here here have zero chill and the culture seems to foment unhappiness and outrage. It’s not surprising that toxic adults are raising mean middle-schoolers. That said, it would be nice to hear about the schools that do a better than average job of keeping the toxicity at a minimum, for boys and for girls. Some schools are surely doing better than others.

Also, serious question for parents who have experience with both: is there less meanness in the area public middle schools? Is it easier to avoid meanness there?

Hammer meet nail. Well summarized!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop using "mean girls." No girl is one thing, and it just perpetuates misogynistic stereotypes.

Oh sweet mother. Take whatever it is you take pill wise in the afternoon.

So, you answer my post with a slam against people who take medications. A crazy lady -- another misogynistic trope. My comment stands.

NP I agree with you. It’s better to talk about exclusionary behavior rather than labeling “mean girls”

Exclusionary behaviors is THE main bully tactic of “mean girls”. Do your research.

Young girls need to know the following is not nice nor inclusive or even civil:

Telling other girls not to talk to XYZ girl
Telling other girls who to invite or not to things
Pushing
Lying to teachers about what you did
Telling other girls not to talk to girls who don’t wear masks
Making fun of lower/middle school girls who don’t have smartphones

So don’t raise a flying monkey chump that does a bully’s bidding. And do raise someone who avoids toxic people and knows simple things to say when it’s happening. Whether they’re the target or in the group.
The above examples were from a coed school; note the bully has double standards and only singles out girls to control or to bully and not boys.

There is peer pressure wear masks at your mask-optional school? I find that so surprising. If anything, I would have thought the opposite-- that kids who don't wear masks bully the kids that do.

Girls are taught by their woke parents that people who don't wear masks are bad, so they think that they are being noble to mistreat classmates.

+2 At our private k-8, almost every 8th grade girl remained masked after the school went mask optional. I think about 80-90%of the boys ditched the mask immediately. There wasn’t any shaming or bullying about it though. The school made it very clear that they wouldn’t tolerate any unkindness or bullying about wearing or not wearing masks. Either decision was fine.

[Anonymous]

I have two daughters who went through the same public elementary. One had a great, very positive experience. I had to move the other to private after fifth grade because the mean girls were making her life impossible (she is a sweet, very social kid). A number of girls in her year had the same experience and ended up switching schools. It was the same school, in the same neighborhood. It was just the (ill) luck of the draw. On the outside, these mean girls were great kids from great families.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in certain grades at SSSAS, usually a problem in middle school.

+1
Was going to guess you are at SSSAS? If so, get out now! We switched to another local private and it is night and day. There is very minimal mean girl behavior, and when there is, it’s nipped instantly and in a good way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small independent a Jesuit prep school that was regarded as the best school in the state. It had an incredibly kind culture and people who were mean were subjected to peer pressure to be more inclusive rather than the other way around. While mean people are everywhere, mean cultures are not inevitable, and school cultures can be dramatically different.

The culture in the DMV is one of the meanest I’ve ever encountered, and I say that as someone who grew up in another part of the country but went to grad school in DC and lived in many other places (the Bay Area, Texas, the rural mid-west, Chicago, Seattle, Boston, London, the northeast, and the Deep South) before moving back here. People here are meaner than their counterparts in other parts of of the country. They are more insecure, socially-competitive/social-climbing, and discontented than anywhere else we’ve lived. People here here have zero chill and the culture seems to foment unhappiness and outrage. It’s not surprising that toxic adults are raising mean middle-schoolers. That said, it would be nice to hear about the schools that do a better than average job of keeping the toxicity at a minimum, for boys and for girls. Some schools are surely doing better than others.

Also, serious question for parents who have experience with both: is there less meanness in the area public middle schools? Is it easier to avoid meanness there?

I'm from DC and you describe it well. It's soul squelching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience (3 kids) in DCPS and top privates, including Holton/NCS.
I will say that the mean kid behavior is significantly less in public than in private, likely in part because the cohorts are larger at each step of the way.
A larger cohort means a kid can find her people and can escape any mean kid behavior.
It can be much harder in the small private school grades and classes.

That said, one key to not falling victim to the mean kid stuff is to not get sucked into the mean kid drama. Teach your look to kids other than the popular kids
to be their friends. I have a girl at NCS/Holton and there are some mean girls in the grade and associated drama girls getting excluded and hurt. But there are also many girls quietly doing their own thing and avoiding this drama entirely.

What does NCS/Holton (which one?) do about it?

I'm curious as I hear this a lot.. what does "quietly doing your own thing" mean?.can a genuinely social kid adopt this approach - what would it look like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small independent a Jesuit prep school that was regarded as the best school in the state. It had an incredibly kind culture and people who were mean were subjected to peer pressure to be more inclusive rather than the other way around. While mean people are everywhere, mean cultures are not inevitable, and school cultures can be dramatically different.

The culture in the DMV is one of the meanest I’ve ever encountered, and I say that as someone who grew up in another part of the country but went to grad school in DC and lived in many other places (the Bay Area, Texas, the rural mid-west, Chicago, Seattle, Boston, London, the northeast, and the Deep South) before moving back here. People here are meaner than their counterparts in other parts of of the country. They are more insecure, socially-competitive/social-climbing, and discontented than anywhere else we’ve lived. People here here have zero chill and the culture seems to foment unhappiness and outrage. It’s not surprising that toxic adults are raising mean middle-schoolers. That said, it would be nice to hear about the schools that do a better than average job of keeping the toxicity at a minimum, for boys and for girls. Some schools are surely doing better than others.

Also, serious question for parents who have experience with both: is there less meanness in the area public middle schools? Is it easier to avoid meanness there?

I'm from DC and you describe it well. It's soul squelching.

This is right on - zero chill here in the DMV.
I love the point of a school's culture creating peer pressure for inclusivity.
But, assuming the PPs aren't in a school cultivating kindness, I would suggest making sure your daughters (and sons) have interests, activities and supportive friend groups outside of school. Ideally friend groups should be neighborhood kids who go to a wide array of schools (including and most especially public) to dilute the social pressures a school social life has on a child. It can be toxic and the more peer interaction, the higher the likelihood of positive interactions that may help outweigh the lifelong harm/trauma of exclusionary and other bullying behavior. (Also, if you're selecting between private schools, go for the biggest among them. Greater selection of kids is always better.). And again the point the PP made about a school's culture for inclusivity is right on; without it, and left to their own devices and the devices of their competitive parents, kids go "Lord of the Flies."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a small independent a Jesuit prep school that was regarded as the best school in the state. It had an incredibly kind culture and people who were mean were subjected to peer pressure to be more inclusive rather than the other way around. While mean people are everywhere, mean cultures are not inevitable, and school cultures can be dramatically different.

The culture in the DMV is one of the meanest I’ve ever encountered, and I say that as someone who grew up in another part of the country but went to grad school in DC and lived in many other places (the Bay Area, Texas, the rural mid-west, Chicago, Seattle, Boston, London, the northeast, and the Deep South) before moving back here. People here are meaner than their counterparts in other parts of of the country. They are more insecure, socially-competitive/social-climbing, and discontented than anywhere else we’ve lived. People here here have zero chill and the culture seems to foment unhappiness and outrage. It’s not surprising that toxic adults are raising mean middle-schoolers. That said, it would be nice to hear about the schools that do a better than average job of keeping the toxicity at a minimum, for boys and for girls. Some schools are surely doing better than others.

Also, serious question for parents who have experience with both: is there less meanness in the area public middle schools? Is it easier to avoid meanness there?

+1000

So true in our private, mean moms create mean girls and form groups leaving out the rest. I am not sure what it is about this city and the parents

+1 on both of the above commenters. People just aren’t comfortable or nice in their skin and just ridicule right out of the gate— even in field day, one mean mom was talking about “how weird that kid ABC runs.” Wtf.


I have heard parents mock kids' physical appearance and disabilities. No surprise, it was a husband, on one occasion, and a wife on another. The child sadly absorbed those rotten habits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience (3 kids) in DCPS and top privates, including Holton/NCS.
I will say that the mean kid behavior is significantly less in public than in private, likely in part because the cohorts are larger at each step of the way.
A larger cohort means a kid can find her people and can escape any mean kid behavior.
It can be much harder in the small private school grades and classes.

That said, one key to not falling victim to the mean kid stuff is to not get sucked into the mean kid drama. Teach your look to kids other than the popular kids
to be their friends. I have a girl at NCS/Holton and there are some mean girls in the grade and associated drama girls getting excluded and hurt. But there are also many girls quietly doing their own thing and avoiding this drama entirely.

What does NCS/Holton (which one?) do about it?

I'm curious as I hear this a lot.. what does "quietly doing your own thing" mean?.can a genuinely social kid adopt this approach - what would it look like?

In my experience with daughters at NCS/Holton, there are always about 5 girls in a grade who are the popular/drama girls. In general, stay clear of them. Don't attempt friend them, don't invite them to your birthday parties, etc.
The girls who do end up in the endless circle of drama.
Find a few girls who are studious and friend them. Work on building a few solid, true friendships with girls who are outside of the epicenter of things.
Stay off social media.
Get involved with things outside of school.

But mainly, just stay clear of the popular/drama girls. There are always girls who chase after them and they just torture themselves. 99% of the time they are not opening up their circle to more members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience (3 kids) in DCPS and top privates, including Holton/NCS.
I will say that the mean kid behavior is significantly less in public than in private, likely in part because the cohorts are larger at each step of the way.
A larger cohort means a kid can find her people and can escape any mean kid behavior.
It can be much harder in the small private school grades and classes.

That said, one key to not falling victim to the mean kid stuff is to not get sucked into the mean kid drama. Teach your look to kids other than the popular kids
to be their friends. I have a girl at NCS/Holton and there are some mean girls in the grade and associated drama girls getting excluded and hurt. But there are also many girls quietly doing their own thing and avoiding this drama entirely.

What does NCS/Holton (which one?) do about it?

I'm curious as I hear this a lot.. what does "quietly doing your own thing" mean?.can a genuinely social kid adopt this approach - what would it look like?

In my experience with daughters at NCS/Holton, there are always about 5 girls in a grade who are the popular/drama girls. In general, stay clear of them. Don't attempt friend them, don't invite them to your birthday parties, etc.
The girls who do end up in the endless circle of drama.
Find a few girls who are studious and friend them. Work on building a few solid, true friendships with girls who are outside of the epicenter of things.
Stay off social media.
Get involved with things outside of school.

But mainly, just stay clear of the popular/drama girls. There are always girls who chase after them and they just torture themselves. 99% of the time they are not opening up their circle to more members.

This is good advice for all females, at all types of schools, and even in later stages of life.

[Anonymous]

sadly st. andrew has mean girl issue too and school does not do much about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have experience (3 kids) in DCPS and top privates, including Holton/NCS.
I will say that the mean kid behavior is significantly less in public than in private, likely in part because the cohorts are larger at each step of the way.
A larger cohort means a kid can find her people and can escape any mean kid behavior.
It can be much harder in the small private school grades and classes.

That said, one key to not falling victim to the mean kid stuff is to not get sucked into the mean kid drama. Teach your look to kids other than the popular kids
to be their friends. I have a girl at NCS/Holton and there are some mean girls in the grade and associated drama girls getting excluded and hurt. But there are also many girls quietly doing their own thing and avoiding this drama entirely.

What does NCS/Holton (which one?) do about it?

I'm curious as I hear this a lot.. what does "quietly doing your own thing" mean?.can a genuinely social kid adopt this approach - what would it look like?

In my experience with daughters at NCS/Holton, there are always about 5 girls in a grade who are the popular/drama girls. In general, stay clear of them. Don't attempt friend them, don't invite them to your birthday parties, etc.
The girls who do end up in the endless circle of drama.
Find a few girls who are studious and friend them. Work on building a few solid, true friendships with girls who are outside of the epicenter of things.
Stay off social media.
Get involved with things outside of school.

But mainly, just stay clear of the popular/drama girls. There are always girls who chase after them and they just torture themselves. 99% of the time they are not opening up their circle to more members.

+1. My DD just finished 8th grade in APS. She said no girls were mean to those outside of the popular group/clique, but she said if you were "in" then it was vicious. Lots of fat shaming of already incredibly skinny girls, and other down right meanness. DD befriended a few of the girls separate from the group, and they all complained but couldn't leave. I've met a few of their moms, who are more meek than one would expect, and according to DD, these girls are mean to their moms too.

[Anonymous]

Students have the luxury of size at public schools. Sure, there are Mean Girls but there are always other groups of kids. There are always lots of "potential" friend too, since you haven't met eveyone yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an issue in certain grades at SSSAS, usually a problem in middle school.

+1
Was going to guess you are at SSSAS? If so, get out now! We switched to another local private and it is night and day. There is very minimal mean girl behavior, and when there is, it’s nipped instantly and in a good way.

Which grade? I have a girl there and we are thinking of applying out now for next year.