If you support Arizona - Don't be too quick to judge an illegal 'alien'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:20:58, illegal workers often DO pay various taxes, not just sales tax. And despite claims that illegals go on welfare, etc., most will never see any of that money back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18077009/

The IRS created a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification Number in 1996 for foreigners who don’t have Social Security numbers but need to file taxes in the U.S. But it is increasingly used by undocumented workers to file taxes, apply for credit, get bank accounts or even buy a home.


The IRS issued 1.5 million ITINs in 2006 — a 30 percent increase from the previous year. All told, the tax liability of ITIN filers between 1996 and 2003 was $50 billion. The agency has no way to track how many were immigrants, but it’s widely believed most people using ITINS are in the United States illegally.

One number hints at the number of illegal immigrants having income taxes deducted from their paychecks.

In 2004, the IRS got 7.9 million W-2s with names that didn’t match a Social Security Number. More than half were from California, Texas, Florida and Illinois, states with large immigrant populations, leading experts to believe they likely represent the wages of illegal immigrants. Even immigrants who use ITINs to file taxes are forced to make up a Social Security Number when they get a job.

Critics like Dinerstein believe the process makes room for law violators, and in some cases, might endanger the country by allowing them to operate more freely.


That’s why people who are living here illegally rushed to get ITINS like they’re chocolate candy,” said Dinerstein. “It’s a national security issue.”

IRS spokeswoman Nancy Mathis said the ID numbers are issued strictly to track a tax return’s progress through the system, noting the tax code says nothing about whether foreigners filing taxes are here legally or not.

As Lincoln said, "calling a tail a leg don't make it so." Thanks, you helped make my point. Breaking US laws by entering country illegally; using fake SS numbers, and the list goes on and on and on. The reasoning behind this stupidy is astounding--break one law, then another, and they are trying to prove what good citizens they will be. In this computer age where everytime you use a check, credit card, or debit card where, when and time and date are recorded, companies can't determine who is illegal? Bull! Greedy companies should have to pay huge fines and somebody goes to jail, this would cease immediately.

[Anonymous]

I for one really just can't get worked up about these mostly hardworking people breaking the law to come slave for us so that they can have a crack at a better life. If you think that you would do anything different in their shoes, you're fooling yourself. Do you ever break the law, say, by speeding? Just to get someplace a little faster, or another trivial reason? You'd certainly do so in order to provide for your family or have a bit more freedom.

[Anonymous]

I think that anyone with an accent and who can't speak fluent English should be checked for citizenship or a legal visa. I don't care whether they are hispanic, asian, black,or white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that anyone with an accent and who can't speak fluent English should be checked for citizenship or a legal visa. I don't care whether they are hispanic, asian, black,or white.

There's plenty of illegals who can speak beautiful English and plenty of Americans who can't.
You sound ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you guys are avoiding the main question: what criteria will the cop use to approach someone he thinks it's here ilegally without stereotyping?

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you guys are avoiding the main question: what criteria will the cop use to approach someone he thinks it's here ilegally without stereotyping?

THIS

All they have to do is make it a routine question for every single kind of stop or interaction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you guys are avoiding the main question: what criteria will the cop use to approach someone he thinks it's here ilegally without stereotyping?

THIS

All they have to do is make it a routine question for every single kind of stop or interaction.

But how they'll handle it when the only reason for the stop/interaction is the person's legal status?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you guys are avoiding the main question: what criteria will the cop use to approach someone he thinks it's here ilegally without stereotyping?

THIS

All they have to do is make it a routine question for every single kind of stop or interaction.

But how they'll handle it when the only reason for the stop/interaction is the person's legal status?

It will probably happen anyway, but that will be the basis of a serious legal challenge. Have you heard anything that makes you think their plan is to use this law as a basis for stopping someone?

[Anonymous]

There's plenty of illegals who can speak beautiful English and plenty of Americans who can't.
You sound ridiculous.

There are many foreigners who speak good English but there is still an accent( unless maybe they are from Canada). There are plenty of Americans who don't speak proper English but you can usually tell if it is a normal "american" accent. I think this would be an easy logical place to start if enforcing the Arizona law. Sure, you're not going to catch everyone and would require many people who are legally here to show proof but how hard is it to show your driver's license or passport? If you are SO worried about discrimination, why not require everyone to show proof they are here legally?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There's plenty of illegals who can speak beautiful English and plenty of Americans who can't.
You sound ridiculous.

There are many foreigners who speak good English but there is still an accent( unless maybe they are from Canada). There are plenty of Americans who don't speak proper English but you can usually tell if it is a normal "american" accent. I think this would be an easy logical place to start if enforcing the Arizona law. Sure, you're not going to catch everyone and would require many people who are legally here to show proof but how hard is it to show your driver's license or passport? If you are SO worried about discrimination, why not require everyone to show proof they are here legally?

Ja, heil Hitler!

[Anonymous]

23 46 the problem is that just showing a DL or a passport is not sufficient. My passport stamp is expired but my paperwork for extentions is up to date. To prove I'm here legally I have 15 pages of papers that cannot be copied (just the originals are valid and if I lose them a replacement costs $500) Do you think I walk around with my personal file?
When I travel overseas immigration takes at least 20 minutes to Check the papers and read whatever is on the computer before letting me in and they ask very specific questions about the reason for me to be inthe US; I wonder what kind of training the "every day cops" will get to be able to do such checks from inside their cars parked on the shoulder of a busy road...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I for one really just can't get worked up about these mostly hardworking people breaking the law to come slave for us so that they can have a crack at a better life. If you think that you would do anything different in their shoes, you're fooling yourself. Do you ever break the law, say, by speeding? Just to get someplace a little faster, or another trivial reason? You'd certainly do so in order to provide for your family or have a bit more freedom.

Neither can I. The hypocrisy some people show on this issue is astounding.
I don't understand why people get so worked up on this. Eugene Robinson (who I don't always agree with) had a great column on this issue in the post.
If people are here illegally and breaking the law -not speeding tickets and minor infractions- fine, send them back to their home countries. But, mostly, these are hard-working people looking to better their lives. People who can understand that show a shocking lack of empathy. And to say you would not do the same? BS. How / why do you think most of our ancestors came here . . . irish, italian, german, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I for one really just can't get worked up about these mostly hardworking people breaking the law to come slave for us so that they can have a crack at a better life. If you think that you would do anything different in their shoes, you're fooling yourself. Do you ever break the law, say, by speeding? Just to get someplace a little faster, or another trivial reason? You'd certainly do so in order to provide for your family or have a bit more freedom.

You don't get worked up about people coming here breaking American immigration laws? Did you get worked over 911? Would you get worked up if an illegal was involved in a plot to blow up a national monument and possibly kill thousands? Would you get worked up if your daughter was raped and/or murdered by an illegal whose initial thought was to rob her so he could feed his family that night or, even worse, you or one of your children were injured or killed?? Would you get worked up if these hard working illegals were picked for a job your husband qualified for but he wants a living wage so job is given to "hard working" illegal and you and your family have to go on welfare? Would you get worked up if an unlicensed driver hits your car and it was totaled?

I suspect the answer to all of the above is that you would get worked up if something directly affects you and your family. Why would anyone do anything unlawful to help their family? If you're caught then you would have a criminal record and maybe go to jail. Going five miles over the speed limit isn't the same as driving 30 miles over the speed limit.

If illegals want a crack at a better life they should obey laws--I can't think of a better way to prove you would be a good citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for one really just can't get worked up about these mostly hardworking people breaking the law to come slave for us so that they can have a crack at a better life. If you think that you would do anything different in their shoes, you're fooling yourself. Do you ever break the law, say, by speeding? Just to get someplace a little faster, or another trivial reason? You'd certainly do so in order to provide for your family or have a bit more freedom.

Neither can I. The hypocrisy some people show on this issue is astounding.
I don't understand why people get so worked up on this. Eugene Robinson (who I don't always agree with) had a great column on this issue in the post.
If people are here illegally and breaking the law -not speeding tickets and minor infractions- fine, send them back to their home countries. But, mostly, these are hard-working people looking to better their lives. People who can understand that show a shocking lack of empathy. And to say you would not do the same? BS. How / why do you think most of our ancestors came here . . . irish, italian, german, etc.

They did not break immigration laws--stupid comparison.

[Anonymous]

[/b]

Anonymous wrote:23 46 the problem is that just showing a DL or a passport is not sufficient. My passport stamp is expired but my paperwork for extentions is up to date. To prove I'm here legally I have 15 pages of papers that cannot be copied (just the originals are valid and if I lose them a replacement costs $500) Do you think I walk around with my personal file?
When I travel overseas immigration takes at least 20 minutes to Check the papers and read whatever is on the computer before letting me in and they ask very specific questions about the reason for me to be inthe US; I wonder what kind of training the "every day cops" will get to be able to do such checks from inside their cars parked on the shoulder of a busy road...

Who is responsible for keeping your passport current? You? If you are here on a permanent visa, otherwise known as Green card, by law you [b]must[b] have this on your person at all times so why do you use your passport to prove you are here legally? Maybe there is a very good reason why Immigration ask you specific questions about why you are here? Also, 20 minutes is nothing, and it's your fault because you are too lazy to file proper paperwork.