If you support Arizona - Don't be too quick to judge an illegal 'alien'

[Anonymous]

I've been seeing a lot of judgment here (surprise!) about illegals and just wanted to provide some food for thought. Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe. What Arizona is doing is wrong and anyone that thinks that some won't abuse that law is naive. If you have faith that the government can be trusted to be competent with things like this or you think that every illegal alien is some criminal or shadowy figure, I'd like to share my dad's story:

My father came to this country over 40 years ago from Europe. He was young and allowed himself to get overwhelmed by his new surroundings. Needless to say, having come from a small village to a big city, he got caught up with the wrong crowd. My dad got into some trouble and ended up going to prison for a little over a year. When he got out, he focused back on his original mission: creating a better future for himself. He got a good job and turned his life around eventually applied for and got a green card, paid his taxes and considered applying for citizenship. Flash forward to nearly 40 years later. During a trip back from Europe where he was visiting our family, my dad was told by immigration that he was an 'illegal alien'! My father paid his taxes on time, had a reputable employer, a legitimate green card and had come and gone from the country dozens of times over the years. It turns out that when he was younger, he was supposed to have been deported but somehow nothing ever happened. The immigration, IRS, etc. knew where my dad was all these years as he did not hide from them. Yet because of an error made 40 years ago, my father's life here was completely erased and he was branded a criminal. His home, his family, his job all lost. Why did they give this man a green card if they knew he should've been deported? He got the green card many years AFTER getting out of prison once his H1B was exhausted. Now is struggling to make a life in a country that is foreign to him as he's been gone for so long. This is how our government works. This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting, OP. I also want to add, as a person in her 50s who is concerned about the good health of the Social Security system, I believe it is in my interest that people like your dad get a chance to become fully integrated into our society. We are not facing the kind of problems that a country like Japan faces -- where there are a lack of young people to help support the old farts like me. We have more young people here in part because of immigration to our shores. I want those young people who are immigrants and who want to be productive members of society get the chance to work legally and pay into the system and help support me when I'm old!

[Anonymous]

Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

[Anonymous]

I can only *sigh*... terrorists get student visas all the time but my mom can't get a tourist visa to come, help me for a few weeks with my baby and go back to her life.
Oh well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

Ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

[Anonymous]

Maybe you should get off of dcum, and figure out appeals,etc you could be filing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you should get off of dcum, and figure out appeals,etc you could be filing.

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

Yes, of course you're right. We wouldn't want to let logic intrude into this discussion. Name calling is always preferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

Yes, of course you're right. We wouldn't want to let logic intrude into this discussion. Name calling is always preferable.

Oh come on... this is DCUM, a way closer to Coliseum than closer to Curia Julia

[Anonymous]

OP I am so sorry that you and your father had this terrible experience. I am an immigrant myself (legal) and I know how hard it is when you first get here. However, this law really has nothing to do with your father's situation. Your father wasn't discriminated against based on his race which is the main issue with this law. He simply fell through the cracks and years later, rather than admitting they were wrong, they government deported him. I also think it's wrong, but for different reasons. Not even immigration officers are adequately versed in the immigration law, much less your "on-of-the-mill" state trooper. They are bound to make mistakes and it will take a lot of resources to correct them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

Please don't insult working class white people by comparing them to this obnoxious poster. And please don't use "white trash" as an epithet generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

The predictable response when the poser is intellectually too lazy to come up with something better. What a stunny display of creative vocabulary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please compare "Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe." with "What Arizona is doing is wrong" and "This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws."

You know, I generally agree with you. However, the inherent contradiction between these two statements really makes me crazy, and illustrates the problem here. Your first statement is correct - not everything is black and white. After saying that, however, in the very next sentence, you ignore your own caution and proceed to unequivocally say that the law is wrong. What happened to "not everything is black and white?" Does that only apply to people who disagree with you? This kind of intellectual laziness (or worse, intellectual dishonesty) precludes us from having a real debate about these issues.

White Trash Ass.

The predictable response when the poser is intellectually too lazy to come up with something better. What a stunny display of creative vocabulary.

I love when someone tries to be intellectually superior and then screws it up! HA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been seeing a lot of judgment here (surprise!) about illegals and just wanted to provide some food for thought. Not everything is as black and white, cut and dry as some politicians would have you believe. What Arizona is doing is wrong and anyone that thinks that some won't abuse that law is naive. If you have faith that the government can be trusted to be competent with things like this or you think that every illegal alien is some criminal or shadowy figure, I'd like to share my dad's story:

My father came to this country over 40 years ago from Europe. He was young and allowed himself to get overwhelmed by his new surroundings. Needless to say, having come from a small village to a big city, he got caught up with the wrong crowd. My dad got into some trouble and ended up going to prison for a little over a year. When he got out, he focused back on his original mission: creating a better future for himself. He got a good job and turned his life around eventually applied for and got a green card, paid his taxes and considered applying for citizenship. Flash forward to nearly 40 years later. During a trip back from Europe where he was visiting our family, my dad was told by immigration that he was an 'illegal alien'! My father paid his taxes on time, had a reputable employer, a legitimate green card and had come and gone from the country dozens of times over the years. It turns out that when he was younger, he was supposed to have been deported but somehow nothing ever happened. The immigration, IRS, etc. knew where my dad was all these years as he did not hide from them. Yet because of an error made 40 years ago, my father's life here was completely erased and he was branded a criminal. His home, his family, his job all lost. Why did they give this man a green card if they knew he should've been deported? He got the green card many years AFTER getting out of prison once his H1B was exhausted. Now is struggling to make a life in a country that is foreign to him as he's been gone for so long. This is how our government works. This is why I don't trust politicians who rely on fear and ignorance to pass racist, bigoted laws.

Op, I am really sorry to hear want happened to your father. Not many people know this, but a green card is not an "entry" permit, its a "residence" permit. Even with a green card a border agent can refuse you re-entry for any number of reasons and as far as I know there is no real appeals process. I am a first generation immigrant and I encourage all my friends/family to apply for citizenship the moment the five year period ends.