Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

Mental health facility worker here again. For someone like Neely, he probably would have been one of our frequent fliers. Arrested, sent to us, evaluated, stabilized, then released (this may take many months or more). We’d likely see him again - he’d be readmitted, evaluated, stabilized, released…rinse and repeat. Its relatively common.

How many violent assaults do they get before they are not released?

Unfortunately I don’t have an answer for that.

[Anonymous]

NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a woman, I would love to see women-only cars on subway/metro trains. Japan has them due to apparently widespread unwanted touching of female by male riders. I would also prefer not to have to share elevators, sparsely populated sidewalks or walking trails, office space outside of work hours, empty parking lots, and any number of other enclosed/isolated/empty public spaces that bring me into contact with unfamiliar men. Women need to be on alert at all times when in these spaces. It sucks, but it is our reality.

Afghanistan has this. Woman only places, such as at home. Or at home. Or at home.

No thank you. I'd rather have marines around to protect me than to have women-only public spaces.

Yeah, well, that's nice but you can't count on a male passenger with a military background magically being on your train car when you feel threatened by someone. Short of having security/police on every subway car or having women-only cars, there's nothing that's going to make women feel 100% safe when riding public transportation. Same goes for any public space where men can attack women.

It's very difficult to enforce women only cars. There isn't going to be anyone assigned to make sure men stay out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

[Anonymous]

Wait why are we not victims? Oppressed, marginalized, assaulted and worse. Underpaid, undervalued. Quit minimizing our concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

It was slanted with the assumption that the killing was unjustified. He was restrained by passengers who thought he was a threat. They weren't police officers with the option of cuffing him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait why are we not victims? Oppressed, marginalized, assaulted and worse. Underpaid, undervalued. Quit minimizing our concerns.

Sorry, if you are posting here, your life is nowhere near as hard as a homeless, mentally ill, orphaned Black man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

Yes. It refuses to absolve the killer, and refuses to absolve both Neely and the system that has failed him and the authors fellow subway riders who by his own acknowledgment don’t have the luxury of not taking the subway.
The death of Neely is a grotesque failure of a system designed to protect only itself and to try to shift all of the blame at the feet of the Marine who was trying to act in good faith is a failure of responsibility. Neely WAS dangerous, the riders and the Marine were right to be scared and though tragic Neelys death is the responsibility of the system that failed him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait why are we not victims? Oppressed, marginalized, assaulted and worse. Underpaid, undervalued. Quit minimizing our concerns.

Sorry, if you are posting here, your life is nowhere near as hard as a homeless, mentally ill, orphaned Black man.

This isn’t the misery and oppression Olympics. Neely doesn’t get a medal for his oppression, his story was always going to end in death and tragedy. I do not deserve to be subjected to assault,harassment and physical harm by deranged men on the subway just because I’m sympathetic they were born black and poor. NO!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

It was slanted with the assumption that the killing was unjustified. He was restrained by passengers who thought he was a threat. They weren't police officers with the option of cuffing him.

And the passengers were right. Neely was a threat, his own grandparents had grown to fear him and he has assaulted people before!!! Why should they wait for him to kill or maim them???? They did their best. I am sorry he died but j am thankful he didn’t kill anyone that day!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

It was, and I'm glad that McWhorter mentioned how the progressive left uses words like "discomfort" and "convenience" in multiple contexts to disparage pleas for fundamental human rights or needs, like physical safety or protection from extreme verbal abuse that creates a real threat of physical attack for any reasonable person. T

How we grapple with what to do in response to people like Neely also requires hard conversations and frank language. I've heard this past week that we should tolerate the reality that these men make us "uncomfortable" on the subway. But this word vastly understates how one feels in such circumstances. A more accurate word is "terrified." Your guts clench, especially if you're on a long stretch between stations or you're with kids. New Yorkers these days have read stories of people being pushed onto the tracks or stabbed by troubled individuals in subway stations. To suggest in this context that subway riders should exert a kind of aggressive enlightenment and get used to being made "uncomfortable" because men like these are the product of an unjust system beyond their control is to expect far too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NYT opinion take- this seems like the most rational and nuanced view of the situation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/09/opinion/jordan-neely-subway-death.html?unlocked_article_code=OXf4xxpc9E1WqwiL2Q1a_sDCu8664BbMzbcbDi1t-eQwJ_ptIWNw1ll3_XpXgab8c_ZmfNDeqiEW8BC0eQ_rww5BbxdBgTjAPKsIns6U8EPxb3EvlumcyvnW05WW-aj35_SbEvduE38PC_wrt7GCsbEpBtRovoMAa_bGcZHtN8YDnqm5pDP15JkYjjAcO0Y-oX-NjdClylA9dDg_xW36QM5r6Z3q25VMRkIp7ZSaG1xrj_2N62BGSvlqgoHKlmVWYF9lLIhYyUAJ1Dygf4sScEk_MCEVaxCGEU_-EKfKx8OF9ZxKd35TimW7N0bKhDrXofc-0rkERKCCkSFKaedEGPY&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

That was a very good piece.

It was slanted with the assumption that the killing was unjustified. He was restrained by passengers who thought he was a threat. They weren't police officers with the option of cuffing him.

And the passengers were right. Neely was a threat, his own grandparents had grown to fear him and he has assaulted people before!!! Why should they wait for him to kill or maim them???? They did their best. I am sorry he died but j am thankful he didn’t kill anyone that day!!!!

Yes. It wasn't just coincidence that the passengers tackled and restrained this person as opposed to any other person on the train. They were able to see the danger, unlike many commentators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait why are we not victims? Oppressed, marginalized, assaulted and worse. Underpaid, undervalued. Quit minimizing our concerns.

Sorry, if you are posting here, your life is nowhere near as hard as a homeless, mentally ill, orphaned Black man.

This isn’t the misery and oppression Olympics. Neely doesn’t get a medal for his oppression, his story was always going to end in death and tragedy. I do not deserve to be subjected to assault,harassment and physical harm by deranged men on the subway just because I’m sympathetic they were born black and poor. NO!!!!

Come again? You don't seem sympathetic at all.

[Anonymous]

People are tired of being scared. This is what happens when police aren't enforcing laws. The public takes matters into their own hands, for better or for worse.

Look at how many stories there are about carjackers getting shot.

[Anonymous]

I agree with posters above that calling deranged violent homeless people “just a nuisance” is going to have the exact opposite effect than what you intended.