Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a woman, I would love to see women-only cars on subway/metro trains. Japan has them due to apparently widespread unwanted touching of female by male riders. I would also prefer not to have to share elevators, sparsely populated sidewalks or walking trails, office space outside of work hours, empty parking lots, and any number of other enclosed/isolated/empty public spaces that bring me into contact with unfamiliar men. Women need to be on alert at all times when in these spaces. It sucks, but it is our reality.

Afghanistan has this. Woman only places, such as at home. Or at home. Or at home.

No thank you. I'd rather have marines around to protect me than to have women-only public spaces.

Yeah, well, that's nice but you can't count on a male passenger with a military background magically being on your train car when you feel threatened by someone. Short of having security/police on every subway car or having women-only cars, there's nothing that's going to make women feel 100% safe when riding public transportation. Same goes for any public space where men can attack women.

If our choices are taliban-level separation of the sexes or helpful marines on every train car, I'll take the marine.

But those are not our choices. NY has increased the patrolling in their subway system and WMATA is trying to figure out how to do the same. As crime continues to escalate around the area, and as victims increasingly shoot back, even states such as TN and TX are starting to look at gun control reform. Changes are happening, at a trickle rather than a flood, but they're happening.

What population largely joins the armed forces? Mostly the places that NYC and DC condescendingly refer to as '"flyover country." Everyone loves to hate on brothers and rednecks until the country needs them. Even in this context you speak of the marine as only useful in securing your right to a co-ed space, as if that is a universal basic human right that he must be made expendable for. What would you sacrifice to make our public spaces safer?

Why are you attacking me? I have family members in the armed forces including marines and I think they are great but really aren't the best solution to danger on subway trains. One solution but not the best.

What would I sacrifice? Why do changes in law enforcement and prosecution require sacrifice?

Sorry, I thought I was quoting the poster you were responding to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If our choices are taliban-level separation of the sexes or helpful marines on every train car, I'll take the marine.

But those are not our choices. NY has increased the patrolling in their subway system and WMATA is trying to figure out how to do the same. As crime continues to escalate around the area, and as victims increasingly shoot back, even states such as TN and TX are starting to look at gun control reform. Changes are happening, at a trickle rather than a flood, but they're happening.

This is not at all what is being suggested and you, per the usual here, are overreacting with your statement for chock value. They are talking about women only train cars which any women that has been crammed into a subway car with men pressed up against them with nowhere to go would appreciate. Same reason we want separate dressing rooms and bathrooms.

Reread the PP that was exactly what she is longing for. We need a civilized, law-abiding country, not a segregated one.

[Anonymous]

[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

I would love to hear more about this too. If the reporting is correct, Mr. Neely had both a place to live and to receive treatment, as was ordered in February as part of the criminal case against him. He left the facility after 13 days. The outcry about him being hungry and tired is a false narrative. The truth demonstrates just how difficult it is to provide services for a person desperately in need of intensive assistance with a significant history of trauma, mental health issues, and addiction. The best window to save him would have been the time everyone remembers so fondly - when he was a high school dropout working as a street performer who had recently experienced the horrific trauma of his mother's violent death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

Oh you can’t. It’s almost impossible. That’s the problem. There’s so few hospitals like ours that the goal is to get them out - released to family or a halfway house or even jail, to make room for the next guy. But it’s like a revolving door - the same people keep showing up at our doorstep. Most of our patients are “forensic” - they committed a crime and are being evaluated for mental health issues. Sometimes they stay for months, sometimes they get released to jail or family or even nursing homes. There are tons of factors involved.

I wish there was an easy answer, but there isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

Mental health facility worker here again. For someone like Neely, he probably would have been one of our frequent fliers. Arrested, sent to us, evaluated, stabilized, then released (this may take many months or more). We’d likely see him again - he’d be readmitted, evaluated, stabilized, released…rinse and repeat. Its relatively common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a woman, I would love to see women-only cars on subway/metro trains. Japan has them due to apparently widespread unwanted touching of female by male riders. I would also prefer not to have to share elevators, sparsely populated sidewalks or walking trails, office space outside of work hours, empty parking lots, and any number of other enclosed/isolated/empty public spaces that bring me into contact with unfamiliar men. Women need to be on alert at all times when in these spaces. It sucks, but it is our reality.

Afghanistan has this. Woman only places, such as at home. Or at home. Or at home.

No thank you. I'd rather have marines around to protect me than to have women-only public spaces.

Yeah, well, that's nice but you can't count on a male passenger with a military background magically being on your train car when you feel threatened by someone. Short of having security/police on every subway car or having women-only cars, there's nothing that's going to make women feel 100% safe when riding public transportation. Same goes for any public space where men can attack women.

If our choices are taliban-level separation of the sexes or helpful marines on every train car, I'll take the marine.

But those are not our choices. NY has increased the patrolling in their subway system and WMATA is trying to figure out how to do the same. As crime continues to escalate around the area, and as victims increasingly shoot back, even states such as TN and TX are starting to look at gun control reform. Changes are happening, at a trickle rather than a flood, but they're happening.

Anyone see WAPO’s front page Metro Section about the DC Guardian Angels? They are our best bet for safe subways, and they have the history to prove it.

If only New York Democrats had the intelligence to vote founder Curtis Sliwa for Mayor, this would not have happened.

[Anonymous]

You raise a good point, PP, the longer addiction and MI go untreated, the worse the outcomes, for the individual and for society. Many common street drugs can cause brain damage or aggravate pre-existing MI. Just leaving people on the street to die like animals in squalor or to prey on others, whether MI women or "normies" is abhorrent. The elephant in the room is the $$$ that would be required, that is what all the talk of civil liberties is meant to deflect from imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a woman, I would love to see women-only cars on subway/metro trains. Japan has them due to apparently widespread unwanted touching of female by male riders. I would also prefer not to have to share elevators, sparsely populated sidewalks or walking trails, office space outside of work hours, empty parking lots, and any number of other enclosed/isolated/empty public spaces that bring me into contact with unfamiliar men. Women need to be on alert at all times when in these spaces. It sucks, but it is our reality.

Afghanistan has this. Woman only places, such as at home. Or at home. Or at home.

No thank you. I'd rather have marines around to protect me than to have women-only public spaces.

Agree. Plus, it would only stay women only for a short time then special interests would come to play.

[Anonymous]

This thread has evolved to provide some incredibly well thought out responses.

[Anonymous]

I work in mental health and am left leaning.
At least two things need to happen to deliver mental health treatment more effectively. One is the threshold for involuntary commitment and involuntary treatment needs to be lowered. Right now it is only mandated when there is “imminent” risk of harm to self or to others. The definition of harm needs to be broadened. The timeline expanded beyond imminent.

Second, family need to be involved. If not family then community, to monitor for early warning signs of relapse, to monitor compliance with treatment, attending appointments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? We’re on page 35 and just going in boring circles at this point. So let’s cut to the chase:

I don’t much care about the welfare of the drug addicted mentally ill. Not on the subway, not on the sidewalk outside my office, not in their disgusting tents that we’ve apparently just decided to make permanent fixtures in the nation’s capital. And the liberal among you with (allegedly) more empathy need to do better than “thoughts and prayers” that these situations will magically improve. Every single city in the US that has adopted leftist policies toward crime, drugs, homelessness, etc. is an absolute sewer where this stuff is happening at an exponentially increasing rate.

This particular guy was a violent threat to everyone in that subway car. The marine and others who held him down were risking their own lives in public service. As it happens I don’t know how to put a violent man in a choke hold and subdue him, so I likely would have shot him with my CCW if put in the same situation.

Speaking as a Black woman, I agree with you.

If I had been in that subway car, I would’ve been so grateful for that man who put hands on Jordan Neely so everyone else could escape safely.

You know why? Because the Jordan Neelys of the world pose the biggest threat to ME.

I am an unambiguously Black, dark skinned, blickety Black, mixed with dark and midnight sista. No one’s mistaking me for anything but Black. This matters because you know who people like Jordan Neely most often go for? People like me. Before I finally escaped NYC, I had dozens and dozens of these encounters in the subway, on the bus, on the sidewalk each year. I was heavily pregnant, I had these kinds of encounters on the daily because these predators knew I couldn’t run away.

All these bleeding heart white liberals walk around wrapped in white privilege. It’s a very rare black man who’s going to put hands on you, grab your ass, get in your face expecting you to give him money because he’s a brotha, cuss you out, slap you, punch you, follow you home, watch you to learn when you take your train and stand there waiting for you. Rinse and repeat daily. All except the craziest Black folk know you don’t mess with white folk unless you want things to get really real for you. Middle class whites have that kind of immediate threat of violence escalating into actual violence experience maybe once a decade, maybe once a lifetime.

So, white liberals can say things like ‘the mentally ill people like Jordan Neely pose little threat’ because what you really mean is that they pose little threat TO YOU.

Black women like me, on the other hand? We have the highest murder, rape, DV, robbery etc. rates of any race of women, apart from Native American women on reservations. Do you know who’s beating, robbing, raping, and killing us ? Aggressive Black men like Jordan Neely. Back in the day, no cop would show up for a black woman fighting off some brotha off his meds. Now, if the police do show up, some white liberal is going to let him out the next day on these BS bail policies to come bash my head in and they’ll call it justice.

None of you virtue signaling, pathologically narcissistic white liberals think of the victims because you’re so rarely the victims.

Honestly, looking at videos of how aggressive Jordan Neely was and seeing how long his rapsheet was, I bless that good samaritan who took him out because women like ME are the biggest beneficiaries every time a Jordan Neely is off the streets. It’s unfortunate he died, but he definitely had it coming. That was some street justice for all of the victims who have suffered at his hands thanks to the arrogant white liberals posting nonsense in this thread.

Sorry, not sorry.

What’s your solution for addressing the problem of people like Neely other than “street justice”?

DP but are you suggesting every individual has to figure out a plan to deal with the random violence that our government won't protect us from? What, to prove themselves worthy of taking public transportation?

The future of this country is more violent, more polluted, and more corrupt. And that future is being ushered in by the irrational thought police, like you, who refuse to let people speak the truth about what is happening.

How did you get that from "what's your solution other than street justice"? It's easy to complain--much harder to offer solutions. What's your solution other than insulting anonymous people on an anonymous forum? Surely you have some solutions you can suggest?

My solution is for the government to get off its a$$ and conduct a 1990s style broken windows policing program combined with prison reform that looks basically like this: https://www.ft.com/content/d05a1b0a-f444-4337-99d2-84d9f0b59f95

Am I now worthy to take the metro?

Ok, let's discuss.

1) If by "the government" you mean the federal government, you are confused because policing programs are local.

2) Regarding "broken windows" policing, the movement was discredited by many researchers. We can agree to disagree on this one.

3) Regarding your link on prison reform, "Inside El Salvador’s mega-prison: the jail giving inmates less space than livestock"...yeah, you know quite well that that's not going to fly in the US. We are not El Salvador. As it is, we already incarcerate more people per capita than most countries. You want to incarcerate even more? Sure, but what happens when they get out without any rehabilitation and a record? I agree that the most dangerous should be incarcerated, but judging by recidivism rates in the US, locking lots of people up hasn't been enough to address our crime problems.

DP.
If they aren’t locked up and stay on the streets, they don’t magically reform either.
There needs to be an option to stay locked up forever, live more or less comfortably (like have a bed and food), take meds, be somewhat productive and clean, but never get out because once they get out they go off the meds and the cycle starts again

As someone who works in a residential mental health facility, this is correct. They need to be somewhere they can stay for the rest of their lives.

PP, since you work in the field, can you enlighten us on what it takes to commit someone to a residential mental health facility for life? I see a lot of people suggesting it, but it doesn't seem to be common in real life. What are the options for dealing with someone like Neely who required MH and SA services and had a history of violence? Do they vary from state to state? Please share your knowledge since most of us don't know what we're talking about when it comes to this topic.

Mental health facility worker here again. For someone like Neely, he probably would have been one of our frequent fliers. Arrested, sent to us, evaluated, stabilized, then released (this may take many months or more). We’d likely see him again - he’d be readmitted, evaluated, stabilized, released…rinse and repeat. Its relatively common.

How many violent assaults do they get before they are not released?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in mental health and am left leaning.
At least two things need to happen to deliver mental health treatment more effectively. One is the threshold for involuntary commitment and involuntary treatment needs to be lowered. Right now it is only mandated when there is “imminent” risk of harm to self or to others. The definition of harm needs to be broadened. The timeline expanded beyond imminent.

Second, family need to be involved. If not family then community, to monitor for early warning signs of relapse, to monitor compliance with treatment, attending appointments.

Family is often not involved because they are the first ones abused.

[Anonymous]

Neely's death is absolutely the result of liberal democrat progressive criminal justice reform policies that repeatedly let violent criminals walk the street after being arrested over and over or and over..