Catholic Confirmed, but non-believer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why pay to worship something that's unseen?

It boggles my mind. Here, God, whom I've never seen. Take $20 this week so that I can enter heaven.

For that, you also get a community of people who will help you, maybe, because you believe in the same supernatural beings and ancient stories that they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

it's not hate. It's common sense. I disapprove of anyone who supports a crime ring of any kind. Muslims who support their mosques are not indirectly sending money to ISIS. But Catholics who support their churches are sending money to the Vatican.

That depends very much on the mosque. ISIS doesn't just get money from the money tree.

In any case, I gather that basically your problem is with centralization. If there is an organization with 1000 members and 10 of them are evil, then in your view the other 990 are evil as well. But if there are 100 different loosely affiliated organizations, as long as the 10 people in your small organization aren't evil, then the devil may care about the rest.

Good to know that your hatred comes from poor logical reasoning. I mean at the end of the day you are still judging a whole group of people for the actions of a vanishingly small minority, but at least this way you may one day realize the source of your bigotry is just a result of your subpar IQ.

Nice Straw Man you built there. Have a good time fighting with it -- it will divert your attention from the real atrocities of the Catholic church and your own complicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

it's not hate. It's common sense. I disapprove of anyone who supports a crime ring of any kind. Muslims who support their mosques are not indirectly sending money to ISIS. But Catholics who support their churches are sending money to the Vatican.

That depends very much on the mosque. ISIS doesn't just get money from the money tree.

In any case, I gather that basically your problem is with centralization. If there is an organization with 1000 members and 10 of them are evil, then in your view the other 990 are evil as well. But if there are 100 different loosely affiliated organizations, as long as the 10 people in your small organization aren't evil, then the devil may care about the rest.

Good to know that your hatred comes from poor logical reasoning. I mean at the end of the day you are still judging a whole group of people for the actions of a vanishingly small minority, but at least this way you may one day realize the source of your bigotry is just a result of your subpar IQ.

No one knows who's funding what if you belong to a mosque. They are not centrally controlled, but they are funded through (many at least) an organization that's Saudi-backed. I wouldn't trust a mosque any more than I'd trust the Catholic Church.

With the Catholic church, people know full well that part of their pledge goes to the Vatican. They support vatican activities with their pledge money. It's their choice, though. The Catholic church also supports many totally worthy causes and offers age-old traditions and beliefs, a beautiful faith and eternal salvation to its followers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

[Anonymous]

I hope none of the posters on this thread are buying Subway sandwiches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope none of the posters on this thread are buying Subway sandwiches.

Excellent point. Jared was a criminal, thus all of Subway must shut down. All of its franchisees and employees are evil hypocrites if they keep showing up for work.

[Anonymous]

A flood of people left the Republican party after Nixon, with another flood leaving the Democratic party after Clinton. That's why third party movements are so successful in America. /S/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope none of the posters on this thread are buying Subway sandwiches.

Excellent point. Jared was a criminal, thus all of Subway must shut down. All of its franchisees and employees are evil hypocrites if they keep showing up for work.

Jared was just one person --and he's been punished. And there was no Subway-wide cover-up of his crimes. It was not systemic, unlike in the Catholic church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

Your logic is horribly faulty, but perhaps it's not logic at work here, but faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

My son is old enough for Boy Scouts. He's not joining as we hate their stance on gays. enough about that one and so much for their "Duty to God"

I can have control over my children in their public school. I've taught them about stranger danger and they know never to stay alone with with a teacher, and if that's the case, sit by an open door where people can see you. I can step into the PTA and make my points known. I can email the teachers and administrators. I can participate as a parent - AND as an educator myself. I am part of the community.

When you enter a church, however, you don't expect your leader, a representative of God, to molest your child. It's using religion to lure children into someone's sick world. Yes, people in education have done it. neighbors, funny uncles, coaches - I get it.

But to indoctrinate a child into a religion - to fill his/her head with beliefs that some supernatural being will take care of you during and after life - and THEN to see that child raped (innocence gone) is the most hypocritical and sick situation ever. What do you say to a child after that? "Father Peter is sorry for what he's done to you. Please forgive him."

And yes, I'd expect people to walk away, and many have. I've had very devout friends leave the church b/c they were so disgusted by it all. I can't imagine returning - especially IF it happened to a child in my congregation. This was (and still is) an international problem.

I don't understand how anyone can have faith in the LEADERS who have excused this sick behavior. These are men of God! Such a great God to allow child rape to be part of a religious institution, eh? Bravo, God!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope none of the posters on this thread are buying Subway sandwiches.

Excellent point. Jared was a criminal, thus all of Subway must shut down. All of its franchisees and employees are evil hypocrites if they keep showing up for work.

Jared was just one person --and he's been punished. And there was no Subway-wide cover-up of his crimes. It was not systemic, unlike in the Catholic church.

exactly

And Subway immediately let him go.

not true with the church

lie after big, fat, FUCKING lie - harboring sick fucks in other parishes to protect them

stupid analogy, geniuses - But I guess religion is for the sheeple. can't think critically if God himself poured some intelligence into your brain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

My son is old enough for Boy Scouts. He's not joining as we hate their stance on gays. enough about that one and so much for their "Duty to God"

I can have control over my children in their public school. I've taught them about stranger danger and they know never to stay alone with with a teacher, and if that's the case, sit by an open door where people can see you. I can step into the PTA and make my points known. I can email the teachers and administrators. I can participate as a parent - AND as an educator myself. I am part of the community.

When you enter a church, however, you don't expect your leader, a representative of God, to molest your child. It's using religion to lure children into someone's sick world. Yes, people in education have done it. neighbors, funny uncles, coaches - I get it.

But to indoctrinate a child into a religion - to fill his/her head with beliefs that some supernatural being will take care of you during and after life - and THEN to see that child raped (innocence gone) is the most hypocritical and sick situation ever. What do you say to a child after that? "Father Peter is sorry for what he's done to you. Please forgive him."

And yes, I'd expect people to walk away, and many have. I've had very devout friends leave the church b/c they were so disgusted by it all. I can't imagine returning - especially IF it happened to a child in my congregation. This was (and still is) an international problem.

I don't understand how anyone can have faith in the LEADERS who have excused this sick behavior. These are men of God! Such a great God to allow child rape to be part of a religious institution, eh? Bravo, God!

Your adamant insistence that children are more in danger at a Catholic institution than a non-Catholic one despite no actual knowledge of the relevant statistics is frustrating. I would ask you to please research first and then form a conclusion. If you can't be bothered to do that, then at the very least have the common courtesy to stop hijacking threads about completely unrelated issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

My son is old enough for Boy Scouts. He's not joining as we hate their stance on gays. enough about that one and so much for their "Duty to God"

I can have control over my children in their public school. I've taught them about stranger danger and they know never to stay alone with with a teacher, and if that's the case, sit by an open door where people can see you. I can step into the PTA and make my points known. I can email the teachers and administrators. I can participate as a parent - AND as an educator myself. I am part of the community.

When you enter a church, however, you don't expect your leader, a representative of God, to molest your child. It's using religion to lure children into someone's sick world. Yes, people in education have done it. neighbors, funny uncles, coaches - I get it.

But to indoctrinate a child into a religion - to fill his/her head with beliefs that some supernatural being will take care of you during and after life - and THEN to see that child raped (innocence gone) is the most hypocritical and sick situation ever. What do you say to a child after that? "Father Peter is sorry for what he's done to you. Please forgive him."

And yes, I'd expect people to walk away, and many have. I've had very devout friends leave the church b/c they were so disgusted by it all. I can't imagine returning - especially IF it happened to a child in my congregation. This was (and still is) an international problem.

I don't understand how anyone can have faith in the LEADERS who have excused this sick behavior. These are men of God! Such a great God to allow child rape to be part of a religious institution, eh? Bravo, God!

Well said, Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

I guess your first point is what I don't understand the logic behind. If a teacher in another school raped a student, you would have to pull your child from school? Let's even say it is a private school where the rape occurred, since then you would have a choice and are actively paying versus a public school pay it taxes and less of a choice due to school boundaries. I'm not sure if that logic follows that the entire student body should stop going and the school should be shut down. You could use the example of Boy Scouts, police officers, social workers.
We don't even have to be defenders of Catholicism to see that doesn't make a lot of sense. Fine, don't be Catholic because you don't believe. But to suggest the church should disband is bizarre.
And less sense if you are talking about parishes 5 states away in the US. So the millions of Catholics in South America should leave their church?
We are talking members in the billions.

My son is old enough for Boy Scouts. He's not joining as we hate their stance on gays. enough about that one and so much for their "Duty to God"

I can have control over my children in their public school. I've taught them about stranger danger and they know never to stay alone with with a teacher, and if that's the case, sit by an open door where people can see you. I can step into the PTA and make my points known. I can email the teachers and administrators. I can participate as a parent - AND as an educator myself. I am part of the community.

When you enter a church, however, you don't expect your leader, a representative of God, to molest your child. It's using religion to lure children into someone's sick world. Yes, people in education have done it. neighbors, funny uncles, coaches - I get it.

But to indoctrinate a child into a religion - to fill his/her head with beliefs that some supernatural being will take care of you during and after life - and THEN to see that child raped (innocence gone) is the most hypocritical and sick situation ever. What do you say to a child after that? "Father Peter is sorry for what he's done to you. Please forgive him."

And yes, I'd expect people to walk away, and many have. I've had very devout friends leave the church b/c they were so disgusted by it all. I can't imagine returning - especially IF it happened to a child in my congregation. This was (and still is) an international problem.

I don't understand how anyone can have faith in the LEADERS who have excused this sick behavior. These are men of God! Such a great God to allow child rape to be part of a religious institution, eh? Bravo, God!

Your adamant insistence that children are more in danger at a Catholic institution than a non-Catholic one despite no actual knowledge of the relevant statistics is frustrating. I would ask you to please research first and then form a conclusion. If you can't be bothered to do that, then at the very least have the common courtesy to stop hijacking threads about completely unrelated issues.

Common couresty trumps common decency for those defending the indefensible.

[Anonymous]

Ok, fine. I give up. You officially win. Every single of the billions of Catholics in the history of the world have all been child molesters. Every single one! That's actually the reason for all the naked baby angels on various Catholic chapels in Europe. That's the reason we use Latin, it's our secret evil code. The scale of our evil isn't fully known only because we hire the Illuminati to dispose all of our enemies.

We are just that evil. We are like ISIS plus MS-13 plus whoever the villan was in Austin Powers, COMBINED.

Thank you PP for your valiant service on the thread, making the world safer one DCUM post at a time.