Catholic Confirmed, but non-believer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: My DH and I believe in God but have never believed in Jesus. We are cultural Catholics with robustly Catholic parents and extended family.

We attend church weekly because God is very important in the life of my DH and myself and because we actually are becoming more grateful and selfless as a result. We want our kids to be open-minded about the possibility of God. However, despite years of trying, I've gotten nowhere on Jesus and so forth.

So I think my answer for myself is I do not want to ask our kids to profess faith in something when they don't have it. "The mystery of faith" really is one to me.

Thank you for the responses.

You should meet with the parish priest and discuss your doubts with him. That's part of his calling.

PO doesn't have "doubts" -- she doesn't believe in Jesus, which means she is not a Christian. Her kids also don't believe, despite years of involvement in the Catholic Church. Time for them to move on, which she understands, but you don't.

PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school, got all the sacraments. We married in a Catholic ceremony and got the kids baptized in the church. We are both sort of agnostic. I believe in God in a general sense and I think Jesus had a great message that isn't really reflected in any version of Christianity that I've encountered. I don't know that that makes me from a religious standpoint but I'm comfortable with this. We don't force religion on our kids and I encourage them to explore their own views and feelings.

I think being Catholic is a strong identity and there's a lot to enjoy in it, apart from actual religious beliefs. Don't worry about whether your beliefs actually jive with the church-- polling of Catholics indicates that most of us don't believe what we are "supposed" to. Still, it is a strong cultural tradition to pass to our kids. Just go with it. You're actually doing what most Catholics do.

like centuries of covering up pedophilia.

Seriously, all the traditions can be found in the episcopal church, without the evil at the core.

This sounds like an episcopalian to me. Perfectly politically correct about certain matters (e.g., would never dare say anything bad about Islamn) but willing to cheerfully call the church founded by St. Peter on Christ's instruction "evil at the core."

One would think that men of god raping kids as young as three - all OVER the world - would be evil to the core.

But go on and praise god!

- ex-catholic

Even the super-liberal Washington Post disagrees with you: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html " target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602026.html

What's your point? that it was fine to overlook child rape? I don't care if "only" 50 children were abused, that's 50 too many who were shoved aside while their abusers were protected.

And for every Post article, there's an anti-article. Know how to research. Plus, my article is more recent . . .

Catholic Church 'systematically' protected abusive priests, U.N. says
February 05, 2014|By Tom Kington
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/05/world/la-fg-wn-un-catholic-church-abusive-priests-20140205

ROME -- The Roman Catholic Church has “systematically” protected predator priests, allowing “tens of thousands” of children to be abused, a United Nations committee said Wednesday in a scathing report that cast the first shadow over Pope Francis’ honeymoon period as pontiff.

Furthermore, the church is misogynistic and powerful. I hope you know the REAL reason why priests were prevented from marrying.

[Anonymous]

You should meet with the parish priest and discuss your doubts with him. That's part of his calling.

PO doesn't have "doubts" -- she doesn't believe in Jesus, which means she is not a Christian. Her kids also don't believe, despite years of involvement in the Catholic Church. Time for them to move on, which she understands, but you don't.


PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

No, because of everything she's said. And your point of view is quite clear, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You should meet with the parish priest and discuss your doubts with him. That's part of his calling.

PO doesn't have "doubts" -- she doesn't believe in Jesus, which means she is not a Christian. Her kids also don't believe, despite years of involvement in the Catholic Church. Time for them to move on, which she understands, but you don't.


PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

No, because of everything she's said. And your point of view is quite clear, thank you.

Is there anyone you wouldn't suggest should return to the church?

[Anonymous]

There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

[Anonymous]

PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

No, because of everything she's said. And your point of view is quite clear, thank you.

Is there anyone you wouldn't suggest should return to the church?

I am not suggesting that Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. suddenly convert to Roman Catholicism (though the welcome mat would be open, of course). I am suggesting that any on-the-fence Catholics should speak with his/her priest before leaving the Church. I take OP as being on the fence, as a confirmed Catholic and with a belief in God, but who for whatever reason has doubts about Jesus.

Episcopalians, though, should definitely rejoin the Church. I mean, come on people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are many beautiful things about the Catholic church and some people are able to see them and stay with the church and not be bothered very much, if at all, by pedophilia cover-ups or anything else negative that the church has done, or will do.

These people of deep faith are hard to understand by people who seem to have lost the gift of faith, or who have shut it or thrown it away.

Perhaps if people who have given up on their faith spent more time in Church, their faith would return. Why not give it a try?

If a priest raped your child, would you return to the church?

If the answer is no, then you're a fucking hypocrite like the rest.

When you support the church, you approve of the way they handled the cover up. And your Cardinal's Appeal $$$, did just that by making their lives comfortable.

[Anonymous]

To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

it's not hate. It's common sense. I disapprove of anyone who supports a crime ring of any kind. Muslims who support their mosques are not indirectly sending money to ISIS. But Catholics who support their churches are sending money to the Vatican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

No, because of everything she's said. And your point of view is quite clear, thank you.

Is there anyone you wouldn't suggest should return to the church?

I am not suggesting that Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. suddenly convert to Roman Catholicism (though the welcome mat would be open, of course). I am suggesting that any on-the-fence Catholics should speak with his/her priest before leaving the Church. I take OP as being on the fence, as a confirmed Catholic and with a belief in God, but who for whatever reason has doubts about Jesus.

Episcopalians, though, should definitely rejoin the Church. I mean, come on people!

OP is not on the fence. She and her husband and kids don't believe in Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here. I take the OP's post as someone who wants to return to the Church but can't seem to find her way back. Christmastime is an easy time to reapproach the faith.

despite everything she's said? Perhaps you feel that everyone who has left is looking for a way to come back. TO me it's like continuing to offer steak to someone who's made it very clear that they are a vegetarian.

No, because of everything she's said. And your point of view is quite clear, thank you.

Is there anyone you wouldn't suggest should return to the church?

I am not suggesting that Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. suddenly convert to Roman Catholicism (though the welcome mat would be open, of course). I am suggesting that any on-the-fence Catholics should speak with his/her priest before leaving the Church. I take OP as being on the fence, as a confirmed Catholic and with a belief in God, but who for whatever reason has doubts about Jesus.

Episcopalians, though, should definitely rejoin the Church. I mean, come on people!

Yeah people why settle for centuries-old royal divorce when you can have fresh priestly pedophilia?

Why settle for a church that supports modern social values concerning women and homosexuals when you can have a church that doesn't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

it's not hate. It's common sense. I disapprove of anyone who supports a crime ring of any kind. Muslims who support their mosques are not indirectly sending money to ISIS. But Catholics who support their churches are sending money to the Vatican.

That depends very much on the mosque. ISIS doesn't just get money from the money tree.

In any case, I gather that basically your problem is with centralization. If there is an organization with 1000 members and 10 of them are evil, then in your view the other 990 are evil as well. But if there are 100 different loosely affiliated organizations, as long as the 10 people in your small organization aren't evil, then the devil may care about the rest.

Good to know that your hatred comes from poor logical reasoning. I mean at the end of the day you are still judging a whole group of people for the actions of a vanishingly small minority, but at least this way you may one day realize the source of your bigotry is just a result of your subpar IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

Organized religion is a business. By tithing each week, you support people who train you how to think. If you can live with that, fine. We'll never see eye to eye.

NAIT (http://www.nait.net/), which is Saudi-backed, is known to have funded mosques and the Muslim Student Association. Muslim Brotherhood also started the MSA.

As a Waqf, NAIT holds titles to the real estate assets of Islamic centers and schools in more than forty States. Properties held as Waqf are operated primarily for the purpose of religious worship. In addition to its Waqf role, NAIT pools the American Muslim community’s assets under its Islamic Centers Cooperative Fund, and publishes credible Islamic literature under its American Trust Publications. Through a wholly-owned for-profit subsidiary, NAIT develops financial vehicles that are compatible with both the Shari’ah (Islamic law) and the American law, e.g. mutual funds.

It takes money and influential people to keep a religion going.

I can hate a religion for brainwashing the masses and still feel sorry for those who are victims b/c they don't know any better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
To all the wonderful, tolerant, open-minded liberal thinkers on this thread: if I am a hypocrite who supports an international crime ring because I am Catholic, how so you feel about Muslims?

I really am curious. I want to know whether your hatefulness is broad and diffuse or narrowly focused. Do you hate 3.5 billion people on earth, or just 1 billion?

it's not hate. It's common sense. I disapprove of anyone who supports a crime ring of any kind. Muslims who support their mosques are not indirectly sending money to ISIS. But Catholics who support their churches are sending money to the Vatican.

That depends very much on the mosque. ISIS doesn't just get money from the money tree.

In any case, I gather that basically your problem is with centralization. If there is an organization with 1000 members and 10 of them are evil, then in your view the other 990 are evil as well. But if there are 100 different loosely affiliated organizations, as long as the 10 people in your small organization aren't evil, then the devil may care about the rest.

Good to know that your hatred comes from poor logical reasoning. I mean at the end of the day you are still judging a whole group of people for the actions of a vanishingly small minority, but at least this way you may one day realize the source of your bigotry is just a result of your subpar IQ.

No one knows who's funding what if you belong to a mosque. They are not centrally controlled, but they are funded through (many at least) an organization that's Saudi-backed. I wouldn't trust a mosque any more than I'd trust the Catholic Church.

[Anonymous]

Why pay to worship something that's unseen?

It boggles my mind. Here, God, whom I've never seen. Take $20 this week so that I can enter heaven.