Husband has drinking problem causing MFI, what would you do?

[Anonymous]

Found it!
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

[Anonymous]

Okay, here is a quick update from the OP. After reading your responses, I told my husband that he needs to decide whether he wants to stay with me and stop drinking, or whether he wants to leave and pursue a separate life. He wants to stay, and has vowed to not drink for a year. So that is good. But there was some pushback... he doesn't think he has a problem, he said he's not sure if he even wants kids (not sure if he's serious or if he's just saying this to hurt me), he said that he's staying because it's the obvious adult choice but he feels backed into a corner by the ultimatum. He said he would go to counseling but sounded unhappy about it. I may have made a mistake by giving him an ultimatum but I'm not sure what else I should've done... it seems to me that the only choices are to stay together without drinking, or to split up. This "only drinking on the weekend when the wifey says I can" middle-ground is really not working.

So best case scenario is that he doesn't drink for a year, realizes that he's better off not drinking, and we can go on and have kids after that year is over. Worst case scenario is that he resents me, starts drinking in private, etc.

To the person who asked if we have much to talk about... when we first met 15 years ago we had so much fun, had a ton to talk about, everything was so fresh and new. But at this point we have enough to make it through an hour or two of conversation at night and that's about it. I don't really view it as a problem... we both have pretty boring, technical jobs that aren't fun to talk about, we talk about current events a little bit, but not much else otherwise. I think that may be normal after you've been together for a while, but I'm not really sure.

[Anonymous]

OP, he may want to stop drinking but be unable. That is essentially what alcoholism is.
You are setting him up for failure if he doesn't get any support/counseling to help him understand and a plan to help him stop.
And what are you prepared to do if he drinks next week? He has already promised to stop drinking after the night out with coworkers and failed.
I would suggest that you forge ahead and get counseling, al-anon to help both of you.
It sounds like you both need help understanding and navigating this dynamic and the reality of his drinking

[Anonymous]

OP, what support is he going to have as he gets off alcohol? Therapist, counselor just for him, doctor, AA, other type of group.... Don't set him up for failure by expecting him to quit on his own. It's much, much easier with professional help.

Good luck with your marriage counseling. It sounds like you'll have a lot to discuss.

[Anonymous]

If he's not sure if he wants kids don't do it. Please

[Anonymous]

Get him into counseling (or at least go yourself). Babette Wise is the best in town for alcohol issues (and living with someone with alcohol issues).

[Anonymous]

"he's staying because it's the obvious adult choice"

WHAAAA?!?! If my DH said he was staying because it was the "adult choice" I would soooo be out of there! You don't stay in a marriage because it's the adult choice. You stay because you love and respect the other person, have shared goals and can't imagine growing old with anyone else.

And he told you he doesn't want to have kids. No, just No. Because if he suddenly back tracks and says "Okay I'll have them because I love you", your life will be hell. He will make you do all the hard work, because you wanted the little rug-rats not him. He will hate the life you have because kids are HARD.

AND...you don't give an ultimatum unless you are willing to leave him. You can't even say no to his pouting about having a drink for one weekend. What will you do when he drinks next week or goes out with the guys next month or has 1 drink at christmas or 20 drink on NYE. What will you do? Are you ready to separate from him the moment he drinks? If the answer is no, then your word has lost credibility. So anything else you say will be meaningless.

Stop, just stop trying to control him. You can't. Get into therapy and/or alnon. Where you will learn all you can do is control yourself.

"I don't like how much you drink. But I can't stop you from drinking. I think you have a problem. I don't want to have kids or be married to someone with a drinking problem who isn't getting help. So, if you choose to drink and/or not get help, I will leave you. I will leave immediately. I will not negotiate. And I will stay away until you get help. If you choose to not get help, I will divorce you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, here is a quick update from the OP. After reading your responses, I told my husband that he needs to decide whether he wants to stay with me and stop drinking, or whether he wants to leave and pursue a separate life. He wants to stay, and has vowed to not drink for a year. So that is good. But there was some pushback... he doesn't think he has a problem, he said he's not sure if he even wants kids (not sure if he's serious or if he's just saying this to hurt me), he said that he's staying because it's the obvious adult choice but he feels backed into a corner by the ultimatum. He said he would go to counseling but sounded unhappy about it. I may have made a mistake by giving him an ultimatum but I'm not sure what else I should've done... it seems to me that the only choices are to stay together without drinking, or to split up. This "only drinking on the weekend when the wifey says I can" middle-ground is really not working.

So best case scenario is that he doesn't drink for a year, realizes that he's better off not drinking, and we can go on and have kids after that year is over. Worst case scenario is that he resents me, starts drinking in private, etc.

To the person who asked if we have much to talk about... when we first met 15 years ago we had so much fun, had a ton to talk about, everything was so fresh and new. But at this point we have enough to make it through an hour or two of conversation at night and that's about it. I don't really view it as a problem... we both have pretty boring, technical jobs that aren't fun to talk about, we talk about current events a little bit, but not much else otherwise. I think that may be normal after you've been together for a while, but I'm not really sure. [/quote


Your husband is only going to quit drinking if HE wants to stop. He won't be successful only doing it for someone else. You're missing the point. He has to want to quit drinking and he has to want to have kids.

Infertility may be taking a huge toll on both of you. I was surprised how much it affected my husband. I would take a break from treatments and focus on getting your life together. Meaning, find new activities and focus on being good to one another. Revisit children later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I totally understand all this advice and would say the same thing if I weren't living in the situation. I guess I wasn't too bothered by the behavior and lived with it for years because when he gets drunk, he just goes to bed early - he isn't loud or mean or even visibly drunk. I really wouldn't even know he was drunk except that I saw him drink 6 beers and then go to bed at 9 p.m. I definitely enjoy drinking myself, but I can stop whenever I want, and it seems to be difficult for him to stop if there's still alcohol in the house. He is great around our nieces and nephews (way better with kids than I am), never gets drunk at family events, etc. The only times he seems to have trouble are when he's bored on the weekend or when he's at a work event (he works in finance, in an all-male environment, and I believe that drinking heavily is encouraged by the guys that he works with).

I really do not want to get divorced. We are happy together (aside from this issue) and I can't imagine separating all of our assets, dating again, etc. No one knows that he has a problem (not even our families), and we appear to be a great couple from the outside. But this drinking issue has become a problem now that we're trying to conceive. I honestly think he would be a wonderful parent and I don't think he would get drunk around our kids. Maybe this is wishful thinking though.

Is there a way to get him to seek help if he doesn't think he has a problem? I think if you asked him, he would say that he works a stressful job and just wants to kick back with a 6 pack on Saturday night. He'd say that I'm jumping to do huge medical interventions like IVF without giving the TTC process enough time. He would say (and has said many times) that he can't wait to have kids and he is trying his best to support me during this journey. He would probably say that I'm a controlling perfectionist who has decided to blame his drinking for our failure to conceive. To his credit, he won't buy alcohol without my permission, so I do think that I could successfully keep him from drinking entirely. I'm just having trouble getting through the "withdrawal" phase, where he's asking for a 6-pack and pouting when I say no. I lose my resolve pretty quickly and say "okay, just one bottle of wine," and then we're back to him going through a 6 pack every Saturday, and me yelling about how I'm doing all this stuff to get pregnant and he's not helping.

Ugh. I know I sound like I'm in total denial here. It's just a hard situation when I don't want to divorce him because we have a wonderful life aside from this, he doesn't want to get help (and I'm not certain he's at the point where he truly needs help), and we both want to have kids. Thanks for listening and for all of the advice.

Didn't read the thread, but I stopped at these three words. OP, surely you must know how deeply you are in denial. DH grew up with an alcoholic mother, and I cannot tell you how deeply scarred he and his siblings are from having a mother who was dead drunk by dinnertime, and fell asleep on the couch at 7 p.m. every single night for as long as he can remember. Do you really want this for your child?

Re-read your own post. You say you think your DH will be a good dad, and you think he won't drink around your child, but surely you can see that this is all wishful thinking. Of course he's going to drink around your child and of course he's going to be a terrible father because he's going to be drunk over and over and over again when your child will witness it and say nothing because to your child, this is normal, this is how a dad (the only dad s/he knows) behaves.

Stop trying to conceive. Just stop. Don't even think of having a child with an alcoholic. The definition of an alcoholic is someone who keeps drinking until s/he is drunk, even if it's only once a week or once a month. This is someone who cannot control his or her drinking. This is what you say your DH does.

BTW, my MIL was not a sloppy drunk. She was a quiet drunk. She never drove drunk, never screamed and yelled, she just drank until she slurred her words, and fell asleep. Every. Single. Night. No supervising homework, no checking in with kids to see how their day at school was, no working on projects together, taking the kids to after school sports and activities, no friends over because mom is always asleep drunk on the couch, etc. etc. All of these things are in your child's future, OP. Do you really want to impose this on your child?

Also, when I first met him, my DH described his mother almost exactly the way you describe your DH. "Except for her drinking," he'd say, "she's the nicest person in the world." He doesn't describe her that way any more, because he's realized how abusive her behavior was. Drinking until you fall asleep is nasty, OP. Your DH, like my MIL, was not fit to raise a child. Your DH is going to be a terrible father. Get help. Tell him to stop drinking or you will leave. And do not keep trying to get pregnant with this man, no matter how wonderful he may be "aside from this."

[Anonymous]

PP - seems you're reflecting. What the OP described doesn't sound like the situation you described. There is a definite chance the OPs husband will stop drinking. You simply don't know he won't and don't know them.

Also if someone is a great spouse and has a great life besides drinking.... Why is this a bad thing? Why is alcohol such a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, here is a quick update from the OP. After reading your responses, I told my husband that he needs to decide whether he wants to stay with me and stop drinking, or whether he wants to leave and pursue a separate life. He wants to stay, and has vowed to not drink for a year. So that is good. But there was some pushback... he doesn't think he has a problem, he said he's not sure if he even wants kids (not sure if he's serious or if he's just saying this to hurt me), he said that he's staying because it's the obvious adult choice but he feels backed into a corner by the ultimatum. He said he would go to counseling but sounded unhappy about it. I may have made a mistake by giving him an ultimatum but I'm not sure what else I should've done... it seems to me that the only choices are to stay together without drinking, or to split up. This "only drinking on the weekend when the wifey says I can" middle-ground is really not working.

So best case scenario is that he doesn't drink for a year, realizes that he's better off not drinking, and we can go on and have kids after that year is over. Worst case scenario is that he resents me, starts drinking in private, etc.

To the person who asked if we have much to talk about... when we first met 15 years ago we had so much fun, had a ton to talk about, everything was so fresh and new. But at this point we have enough to make it through an hour or two of conversation at night and that's about it. I don't really view it as a problem... we both have pretty boring, technical jobs that aren't fun to talk about, we talk about current events a little bit, but not much else otherwise. I think that may be normal after you've been together for a while, but I'm not really sure.

OP - What I bolded above is a very typical response of alcoholics (I know because my H is one, as are several of my family members). I also wouldn't count on anything. He's likely unable to stop on his own long term and is probably contending with emotional and mental health issues (depression, anxiety, etc) and uses alcohol to self medicate. He needs a program and he needs counseling to succeed. The fact that he is saying he doesn't want kids might be a reflex to hurt you and protect himself but it could also mean he really doesn't want kids. Believe him.

I say this with a great deal of empathy. Four years TTC then four failed IUIs and two rounds of IVF. H drank a lot - like could polish off a 12-pack in a night - and I was in denial about it. I was older and felt like if I wanted a kid I didn't have the luxury and time to leave and find another partner. Well guess what, finally have DD and H drinks a ton and his mental and physical state have gone downhill. And he really doesn't want kids. He said that once in anger while I was pregnant (and he was drinking heavily) and I convinced myself he said it to hurt me .... but I think in retrospect that it was absolutely how he felt and he was afraid to say it earlier because he recognized it would be damaging for our relationship (I'd always been clear that having children was important to me). We are separating now and will be divorced by Christmas. It's been an incredibly painful journey and I would encourage you to seek counseling and support (Al-Anon is a great resource).

Bottom line: This won't fix itself and I agree with PPs; don't bring a child into this mess. That is my mistake and I'm paying for it .... and worse my daughter is paying for it. Talk about regret.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the posts, but I have a brother that is in recovery. OP you need support. This is not an easy thing. Consider al anon.

Also, I wanted to say that I am very sympathetic to your situation. I am married to someone who drinks too much. I don't consider him an alcoholic, but I do think drinking is an issue. It is very easy for others to judge and say "just leave him" but I think these things are so much more complicated than that. Part of love is dealing with a persons imperfections. So I just want to say: good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP - seems you're reflecting. What the OP described doesn't sound like the situation you described. There is a definite chance the OPs husband will stop drinking. You simply don't know he won't and don't know them.

Also if someone is a great spouse and has a great life besides drinking.... Why is this a bad thing? Why is alcohol such a problem?

1. Creates health problems - heart disease and increased vulnerability to some cancers. Oh, and diminished fertility.

2. The "great life" tends to be a lie when examined closely. For someone who abuses alcohol, alcohol comes first, then other people/things. Even if a spouse is willing to rationalize away the costs, children rarely are.

3. OP's husband may stop drinking, but from her description of his behavior it seems unlikely. Progression to greater severity is more likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the posts, but I have a brother that is in recovery. OP you need support. This is not an easy thing. Consider al anon.

Also, I wanted to say that I am very sympathetic to your situation. I am married to someone who drinks too much. I don't consider him an alcoholic, but I do think drinking is an issue. It is very easy for others to judge and say "just leave him" but I think these things are so much more complicated than that. Part of love is dealing with a persons imperfections. So I just want to say: good luck to you.

Agree. No one is perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read all the posts, but I have a brother that is in recovery. OP you need support. This is not an easy thing. Consider al anon.

Also, I wanted to say that I am very sympathetic to your situation. I am married to someone who drinks too much. I don't consider him an alcoholic, but I do think drinking is an issue. It is very easy for others to judge and say "just leave him" but I think these things are so much more complicated than that. Part of love is dealing with a persons imperfections. So I just want to say: good luck to you.

Agree. No one is perfect.

I don't recall anyone saying that OP's husband has to be perfect or seeing a chorus of "Leave him!" OP is trying to have a baby with someone who clearly has issues with drinking. Because this is very complicated, many are advising OP to stop the efforts to have a baby and sort this out first. He has a drinking problem. That doesn't make him a bad person--just someone with whom having a baby with right now would be a really bad idea.

I think everyone can agree on two things:
--This will not get better with wishful thinking
--A baby will only add to the stress of the issues, not alleviate