More Attractive: Asshole Jock or Respectful Chess Nerd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate this asshole jock vs shy nerd dichotomy. It is SUCH a false dichotomy, like all the women here have pointed out.

We want confidence, intelligence, and a man who is comfortable in his own skin.

Guess what? If you're either shy or an asshole, you are NOT confident (yes, assholes are not confident) and you are not comfortable in your own skin. So neither of them qualify.

Whether you are a high powered lawyer or the girl behind a McDonald's counter, women want a man who makes them feel safe and protected. A man with a strong inner core with beliefs to match. Period, end of story.

Yes to "man with a strong inner core and beliefs to match"... No to "women want a man who makes them feel safe and protected".

I want a man who makes me feel good, in many many different ways. Who feeds my brain with mental stimulation... who feeds my heart with loving attention... who fills my days with good company, adventures, good quiet time, leave me alone time (when I need it)... who feeds my body with good foods (if he can cook!) and all that good sexual attention... and who feeds our kids with awesome parenting...

Feeling safe and protected is a huge bonus, but I have spent plenty of years living on my own and I do a pretty good job of keeping myself safe and protected, so no, that is not one of the things at the front of my mind/heart when I'm meeting a man or dating him.

Now, somoene who makes me feel UNsafe is out the door right away. And I do like feeling safe. It's just not one of the main things I'm looking for... there are a LOT of other things that are more important to me to feel, and that has been that way since high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guys get mixed messages about what women want. And when I say what they want, I mean "what they want in a guy with whom they'd like to have sex."

For example, in high school and college, I was peppered with messages about treating women with respect and as equals. But my observation was that they'd primarily seek out, dote on, and flirt with the jocks, regardless of whether those guys treated them respectfully and as equals. Now, I know, ideally, a woman is probably going to want a confident, athletic guy who treats them with respect and as an equal. But, when push came to shove, the women I knew would pick the confident, athletic guy who did not treat them with respect over, say, the shy chess nerd who did treat them with respect and as equals.

It's been a long time since I was in high school or college, so my observations would be so much ancient history. I am happily married and not looking to attract anyone but my wife. However, I've seen the debates heating up lately with feminists on one side and Mens Rights Activists on the other side. Feminists are pro-equality and respect. MRAs are saying, "bullshit, women are attracted to assholes." It's of some importance because when guys like myself are taking sides in the culture wars and on decisions of politics and policy, we (or at least I) think that feminists have the better rational position. But, on an emotional level, think that women aren't really being fully honest about how they want to be treated by men. And so, the MRAs have some resonance when they suggest that, while women say they want to be treated as equals, what they really respond to is strength.

So, what's the deal with picking the bad boys and the asshole jocks over the nice guys? I'm convinced that the MRAs are primarily misogynists and assholes. I would like to also be convinced that they are wrong about what women truly desire and find sexually attractive.

respectful vs. asshole is not the only relevant dimension. this is what "respectful" nerds keep forgetting. if the nerd is attractive, then, yes, he has the edge. but if asshole is more attractive - well, it depends. but you do understand that, ceteris paribus, more attractive guy has an edge on a less attractive guy. somehow men keep forgetting about this little thing, while relentlessly pursuing attractive women only.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds to me like you are an MRA troll, but I'll take you at face value:

The reason this is a false dichotomy is that there is no one standing there determining whether an individual guy is a jerk or a nice guy. The MRA theory is that women OWE sex to men who are "nice"--men who feign friendship in an attempt to obtain sexual attention. Would you rather have sex with someone who is interested in you sexually and says so (and who may be very nice TO YOU at least in the early stages, even if a bitter "nice guy" MRA would decide from the outside that he is attractive and therefore a jerk), or with someone who is attracted to you sexually, but pretends to be interested in you as a person while being judgemental about anyone in whom you express interest? MRAs believe that women aren't real people with a variety of needs and desires who are entitled to make their own romantic and sexual decisions. Instead, they treat women as stupid, one-dimensional caricatures who need a "good" man (by which MRAs mean "someone like me") to make their choices for them. Any woman who is attracted based on physical factors is a slut and a bitch. Women should take attention from men who have nothing else toing on but the fact that they are "nice"--aggressively and possesively--and be grateful.

[Anonymous]

You know, it is a stereotype that chess nerds are all well mannered, respectful, etc. especially in the awkward teen years. There are plenty of intellectually arrogant people, especially in adolescence, and that can make a guy hard to approach or difficult to spend time with.

And then a lot of quite nice chess guy types have a too defeatist attitude, referring to themselves as betas, griping about some other guys life over there instead of enjoying their own lives and appreciating their own good qualities. Or assuming defeat without trying, or only valuing a woman by physical appearance without knowing anything about her actual self. I broke up with a guy over these issues once. He talked himself out of things, and seemed to assume my looks were as important to me as to him. He was too deep in this rut to take a different perspective.

Never was interested in jocks, but as a married mom, I note that a lot of dads who seem really great appear to have jock backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

One of the most presumptuous, rude, ill mannered men that I ever went out with was a brainy nerd type. One of the most laid back, fun and friendly guys that I ever went out with was a good looking jock type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know, it is a stereotype that chess nerds are all well mannered, respectful, etc. especially in the awkward teen years. There are plenty of intellectually arrogant people, especially in adolescence, and that can make a guy hard to approach or difficult to spend time with.

And then a lot of quite nice chess guy types have a too defeatist attitude, referring to themselves as betas, griping about some other guys life over there instead of enjoying their own lives and appreciating their own good qualities. Or assuming defeat without trying, or only valuing a woman by physical appearance without knowing anything about her actual self. I broke up with a guy over these issues once. He talked himself out of things, and seemed to assume my looks were as important to me as to him. He was too deep in this rut to take a different perspective.

Never was interested in jocks, but as a married mom, I note that a lot of dads who seem really great appear to have jock backgrounds.

+1

[Anonymous]

Not necessarily any right or wrong about it. But, when a girl you like starts dating a dude who has been bullying you since junior high, then a couple months later comes crying to you about what a jerk he is and "why can't more guys be like you," it's a bitter pill to swallow. Of course he's a jerk. That's who he is. And, why do you need guys to be "like me?" Just date me.

[Anonymous]

Another thing to keep in mind is the dynamic where the difference between an action being creepy and funny or romantic is simply how attractive the person doing it is.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f76_1323277426&comments=1

Sexual Harassment and You. You can have sex with women at work without losing your job, by following a few simple rules:
Rule 1: Be Handsome
Rule 2: Be Attractive
Rule 3: Don't Be Unattractive

[Anonymous]

Problem is you're talking about HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS. What do you expect from them? Same with high school boys. Are they going for the shy nerdy girl with straight As?

[Anonymous]

I didn't read all of the responses. Pardon me if this has bee said already.

The asshole attracts women who are already insecure. They chase these men for validation and lose themselves in the process. This chase lends itself to great sex, but it's certainly no guarantee. The uncertainty and insecurity about a relationship keeps that new relationship kind of sex going. The asshole may be sexy, but it's not sustainable.

I question the self esteem and self awareness of the kind of women who go from one asshole to another. Lacking those things makes it difficult to carry on a healthy relationship. So, if women are throwing themselves at these men, you have to wonder if it's because they can't attract and/or keep less assholish guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Problem is you're talking about HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS. What do you expect from them? Same with high school boys. Are they going for the shy nerdy girl with straight As?

Late teens and early twenties are women have the most options and fewer mercenary concerns about long term stability. So that's when their choices should be most representative of what they find attractive in a partner they want to have sex with.

Guys remain fairly stable and predictable in what they will say they find sexually attractive in a woman over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is you're talking about HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS. What do you expect from them? Same with high school boys. Are they going for the shy nerdy girl with straight As?

Late teens and early twenties are women have the most options and fewer mercenary concerns about long term stability. So that's when their choices should be most representative of what they find attractive in a partner they want to have sex with.

Guys remain fairly stable and predictable in what they will say they find sexually attractive in a woman over the years.

No, I don't think that's accurate. Men and women are more comfortable being themselves as they get older. It's difficult to gauge men in the teen to mid twenties range. It was a confusing process with immature guys. I know what I find attractive now and don't have to try to overlook juvenile qualities to get it.

[Anonymous]

It's not that confusing - it works for nerds and jocks alike. If the dude is a dick to other guys who are smaller and weaker than him, he's likely to be a dick to you. Don't date him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want a man who makes me feel good, in many many different ways. Who feeds my brain with mental stimulation... who feeds my heart with loving attention... who fills my days with good company, adventures, good quiet time, leave me alone time (when I need it)... who feeds my body with good foods (if he can cook!) and all that good sexual attention... and who feeds our kids with awesome parenting...

That's quite the checklist you have there. Is there a man in your life who fills all of those qualifications at once?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is you're talking about HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS. What do you expect from them? Same with high school boys. Are they going for the shy nerdy girl with straight As?

Late teens and early twenties are women have the most options and fewer mercenary concerns about long term stability. So that's when their choices should be most representative of what they find attractive in a partner they want to have sex with.

Guys remain fairly stable and predictable in what they will say they find sexually attractive in a woman over the years.

So you expect girls to be emotionally smarter and wiser in high school but you let boys off the hook for being driven primarily by looks even if the girl is a b***h? Maybe the reason you were rejected in high school and college is your absurdly flawed reasoning, your double standards, and the fact that you wanted the girl who dated the ass instead of the nerdy girl who probably loved you but you were too shallow to even notice.