"Are You Working Yet?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the past poster. We all work, even singletons, to maintain a house and a life. Most of us cook and clean daily.

No. That's called living. You gonna tell me its work to eat and shower and crap?

HAHA so true! People like to complain at the slightest exertion of effort and organization. We could all just sit around instead and live in a complete dump and eat cheetos for dinner, maybe that would get everyone out of this predicament called life.

There's a difference between popular conceptions of work -- as in it's only something I'll do if I get paid -- and a sociological definition of work, which is what I've been referring to in my posts. I love my kid and my husband and certainly I'm glad to do things on their behalf but in terms of what it is that I do, it's certainly "work" in a technical sense. I ain't sittin' around eating bonbons, that's for sure!

We live in a society that pays lipservice to raising children but ultimately doesn't value it because raising children does not make a profit!

I'm not the one who posted that, but I still don't really get it. I don't consider taking care of/playing with my child work. You cannot and should not attach a monetary amount to raising your own children.

[Anonymous]

10:15 again -- But that's exactly what I'm getting at -- the definition of work as something that is *paid*. Which has led to the societal undervaluing of raising a family because it is not paid.

I'm not saying you should attach a monetary value to raising your children but I am saying that as a society, we don't value homemaking and parenting because it is unpaid work. Until we change our view on this, raising a family will continue to be seen as something that conflicts with "real" paid work -- nice if you can afford it, but since we don't need lots of kids for farm labor anymore, it's essentially on the same level as a serious hobby.

When both parents get a year of paid parental leave from their jobs, as happens in countries such as Sweden, that's when I'll be convinced that we've taken raising a family seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:15 again -- But that's exactly what I'm getting at -- the definition of work as something that is *paid*. Which has led to the societal undervaluing of raising a family because it is not paid.

I'm not saying you should attach a monetary value to raising your children but I am saying that as a society, we don't value homemaking and parenting because it is unpaid work. Until we change our view on this, raising a family will continue to be seen as something that conflicts with "real" paid work -- nice if you can afford it, but since we don't need lots of kids for farm labor anymore, it's essentially on the same level as a serious hobby.

When both parents get a year of paid parental leave from their jobs, as happens in countries such as Sweden, that's when I'll be convinced that we've taken raising a family seriously.

I think the difference is that you choose to have children. You can also choose not to have children. I think we as a society absolutely value parenting. Whether our government is willing to subsidize it is of course another story. But inconsistency between "our values" and our budget and laws are not uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When both parents get a year of paid parental leave from their jobs, as happens in countries such as Sweden, that's when I'll be convinced that we've taken raising a family seriously.

WHY should taxpayers or employers pay for someone not to work in a financial sense? Staying at home is a choice. I stayed home for 2 years, but it would never cross my mind to expect anyone to PAY me for it, I just don't see why this is someone else's responsiblity. This is why my husband and I saved money prior and downsized our spending habits, so we could afford for me to stay home. We will do this again with baby #2 and baby #3, this is all a part of our financial plan. What about all of the single people who choose not to have kids? They are supposed to pay for people to stay home for a total of 3-4 years if they have 3-4 babies? Crazy.

[Anonymous]

I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again. Thanks to everyone for responding and making me feel better (mostly). I've since 6am and have re-heated my coffee at least four times.

I would hire help to clean the house if my husband were not a cheapo.

And I honestly do not need validation from anyone regarding my decision to stay home. It just saddens me that my certain friends feel it belittles women to be home with their children. I do work hard and I do enjoy it (most of the time). What I do is not glamorous or always fun but I am with me little one. At some point I will go back to a paying gig but for now this is my job and it does not make me less of a woman, as they think it does.

OP- No disrespect regarding your decision, but wow. I can't believe you would call your husband a cheapo -- a husband who is willing to be the sole breadwinner and live on one salary in this area. Unless he makes a minimum of $300.000/year (and maybe he is) he's not being cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

Bingo! I'm the poster who said living isn't work and I think you said it better than I did. If one wants to be unemployed and go to school or raise a child or collect stamps or nap, more power to em. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone else doesn't refer to your personal passion (regardless of the effort exerted) as work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

Bingo! I'm the poster who said living isn't work and I think you said it better than I did. If one wants to be unemployed and go to school or raise a child or collect stamps or nap, more power to em. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone else doesn't refer to your personal passion (regardless of the effort exerted) as work.

Yep, sure, child-rearing is akin to napping or stamp-collecting or being. Attitudes like this is why child-rearing is looked down on in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

Bingo! I'm the poster who said living isn't work and I think you said it better than I did. If one wants to be unemployed and go to school or raise a child or collect stamps or nap, more power to em. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone else doesn't refer to your personal passion (regardless of the effort exerted) as work.

Yep, sure, child-rearing is akin to napping or stamp-collecting or being. Attitudes like this is why child-rearing is looked down on in this country.

Meant above to say "being unemployed," as per earlier PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

Bingo! I'm the poster who said living isn't work and I think you said it better than I did. If one wants to be unemployed and go to school or raise a child or collect stamps or nap, more power to em. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone else doesn't refer to your personal passion (regardless of the effort exerted) as work.

Yep, sure, child-rearing is akin to napping or stamp-collecting or being. Attitudes like this is why child-rearing is looked down on in this country.

I didn't write this, but am fairly confident that the poster wasn't saying child-rearing is akin to stamp-collecting. Come on. She was saying that it's something worthy of enjoyment. And something that comes of choice and free will. Who is looking down on child-rearing?? Other than maybe OP's "friends"??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Oh good Lord, what to you *isn't* hard work? If you don't want to garden, don't garden. If you didn't want to have kids you shouldn't have had kids. If you don't like to cook, get takeout. The whole "I'm busting my ass" thing is just ridiculous. These are your choices. And your CHILDREN. Try and find some joy there, because it's all around you.

Bingo! I'm the poster who said living isn't work and I think you said it better than I did. If one wants to be unemployed and go to school or raise a child or collect stamps or nap, more power to em. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone else doesn't refer to your personal passion (regardless of the effort exerted) as work.

Yep, sure, child-rearing is akin to napping or stamp-collecting or being. Attitudes like this is why child-rearing is looked down on in this country.

I didn't write this, but am fairly confident that the poster wasn't saying child-rearing is akin to stamp-collecting. Come on. She was saying that it's something worthy of enjoyment. And something that comes of choice and free will. Who is looking down on child-rearing?? Other than maybe OP's "friends"??

Last time I checked, every single thing we do, including both paid and unpaid work, were the results of choice and free will. An activity being the result of free will and choice--which is to say, everything, LOL--doesn't have any relevance to whether or not it is work. That is simply illogical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When both parents get a year of paid parental leave from their jobs, as happens in countries such as Sweden, that's when I'll be convinced that we've taken raising a family seriously.

WHY should taxpayers or employers pay for someone not to work in a financial sense? Staying at home is a choice. I stayed home for 2 years, but it would never cross my mind to expect anyone to PAY me for it, I just don't see why this is someone else's responsiblity. This is why my husband and I saved money prior and downsized our spending habits, so we could afford for me to stay home. We will do this again with baby #2 and baby #3, this is all a part of our financial plan. What about all of the single people who choose not to have kids? They are supposed to pay for people to stay home for a total of 3-4 years if they have 3-4 babies? Crazy.

Did you not get/take any maternity leave when you had your baby? If you did, then, someone else paid you for not working and having a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was not asking to be "paid" but I still work. I do not get paid to garden but it is hard work. I do not get paid to cook, but again, I am working. Work does not need to include a paycheck yet it is still "work". Volunteers building a house are still "working".

You pay a daycare provider and they are certainly working... I may not get paid but I am still busting my ass.

And my day is not all childcare. Housekeeping is work, just ask your maid. She WORKS.

I am not a liberal who believes in handouts.... but has anyone seen the movie Sicko? Fact, many European governments provide paid leave, help at home for parent's, etc. I'm just sayin.... And the people interviewed took WEEKS of vacation, had nice homes and were not up in arms over the taxes. Just throwing it out there, not saying it is what we should do.

Actually many Europeans are in an uproar about taxes. You have to understand that Michael Moore only shows you what he wants you to see. Ever since they formed the EU and esentially erased borders, wealthy countries such as the UK (who HAD fab social services) have had a FLOOD of poor people enter in their country degrading services and causing a lot of burden on tax payers. The british people are having a hard time just keeping up with the cost of living....you think its bad here? Also the flood of immigrants from Africa and the middle east is causing great strain. Check it out for yourself and don't rely on a heavily edited documentary.

My son has a rare genetic disorder. I am in a large international support group. EVERYONE is saving to come to the US to get treatment. If you are REALLY sick and sitting in a socialized healthcare system, you are screwed. Many of these children are sponsored by doctors, charitable organizations, and their communities to make it over to the states for treatment. It's nice and fun to watch movies, but and is reality as well. I live it with a sick child. THANK GOD I can go the NIH, and though insurance does not cover me 100%, my son can still live and play and there is no price that I can put on that. We might now be so lucky if we lived in another country.

Also, BTW, all people in Europe do not live in nice homes. Actually many of them are crammed into small apartments b/c this is all they can afford. The tax burden is very heavy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When both parents get a year of paid parental leave from their jobs, as happens in countries such as Sweden, that's when I'll be convinced that we've taken raising a family seriously.

WHY should taxpayers or employers pay for someone not to work in a financial sense? Staying at home is a choice. I stayed home for 2 years, but it would never cross my mind to expect anyone to PAY me for it, I just don't see why this is someone else's responsiblity. This is why my husband and I saved money prior and downsized our spending habits, so we could afford for me to stay home. We will do this again with baby #2 and baby #3, this is all a part of our financial plan. What about all of the single people who choose not to have kids? They are supposed to pay for people to stay home for a total of 3-4 years if they have 3-4 babies? Crazy.

Did you not get/take any maternity leave when you had your baby? If you did, then, someone else paid you for not working and having a baby.

No...I said I stayed home for 2 years. I could have had short term disability if I would have returned and that would have paid me 6 weeks at 2/3s of my salary. That's an insurance program. People pay into it and people take out of it. It would have been the same program if I would have come down with an illness that caused me not to work, STD has nothing to do with someone paying you to raise your kids, its a medical allowance.