Need outside perspective on a fight with DH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH has periods of getting really into the manosphere online, and it will lead to these kinds of arguments. It always kind of throws me because I’m just listening to music or chatting about my day, and I’m caught off guard that it leads to a fight.

I’m so sorry, PP. That’s a disaster in the making. My college age son texted the family group chat about something “funny” Andrew Tate had said online. He was surprised by the instant negative reaction DH and I had. We ended up having a series of good conversations about it, though I’m not sure it sunk in. These idiots are talented at getting their claws into vulnerable boys and men.

OPs story has nothing to do with the maosphere or Tate or men's rights anything. Why can't you just admit that the pink pony club is a song about being a stripper?

Why can’t you just admit you’re a literalist and probably on the spectrum.

Alternative interpretation of OPs story: Her DH was upset that his wife was playing that song about being a stripper in front of their children because he doesn't want his kids to think its ok. So he criticized it. She realized she was wrong and got defensive. Then she runs to dcum to get validation. As expected, certain dcum posters started blaming men in general.

If that’s how her H felt, then he needs to be an adult and express how he actually feels. Later on, when they have time to talk, he can say “hey babe, I know you really like that song, it’s a good song, but I feel uncomfortable with it being played around the kids. I understand it’s about a gay bar but it can be interpreted as stripping and I’m afraid the kids will think it’s the green light to do sex work. Can we find a compromise where it’s not played around the kids?”

The passive-aggressive, picking a fight over the meaning of the song is not how adults communicate and just leads to anger and resentment rather than solutions. Better to be solution-oriented rather than have emotional outbursts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In retrospect, a PP hit on a fundamental communication problem between Dh and me. He has said before that he just wants to engage in an intellectual debate with me, but instead, I take things personally, feel attacked, and just get my feelings hurt instead. I do think he probably wishes he married someone who he could verbally spar and debate with, where both parties are trying their best to "win". Anger, insults, rude comments - all fair game.

I take this with a giant grain of salt though, because the very second I disagree with him on something, HE is the one who gets very defensive. He wants me to be supportive of him 100% and takes any disagreement as an attack on him. So I think in this case, he probably wanted me to say something like, oh hmmm, yeah I never thought about that way, maybe you're right, tell me more about why you think that way?

But I was irked because here I was just enjoying a song. And in my view, not only did he crap on me for it, he also judged me for it and tried to make me feel ashamed or less than evolved for liking it. It didn't even matter what the song was about. I felt judged, and I felt I didn't want to be boxed in or told what I should and shouldn't like.

I didn't come here for validation. I came here because I knew this argument was stupid and we fell into old patterns and I'd rather not do that anymore. If I was in the wrong, I'm willing to apologize and take accountability. If there is feedback I can give him, I'd like to be able to talk about that with him, instead of do what we normally do - just pretend it didn't happen and move on, so that it can just pop up again next time.

Oh, God, men like this are exhausting. They want to debate everyone but the second someone disagrees they blow up. My xH was like this and it’s a large part of why we divorced.

No, you’re not in the wrong and I’d be having a serious come to Jesus talk with him about this behavior. Is therapy an option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In retrospect, a PP hit on a fundamental communication problem between Dh and me. He has said before that he just wants to engage in an intellectual debate with me, but instead, I take things personally, feel attacked, and just get my feelings hurt instead. I do think he probably wishes he married someone who he could verbally spar and debate with, where both parties are trying their best to "win". Anger, insults, rude comments - all fair game.

I take this with a giant grain of salt though, because the very second I disagree with him on something, HE is the one who gets very defensive. He wants me to be supportive of him 100% and takes any disagreement as an attack on him. So I think in this case, he probably wanted me to say something like, oh hmmm, yeah I never thought about that way, maybe you're right, tell me more about why you think that way?

But I was irked because here I was just enjoying a song. And in my view, not only did he crap on me for it, he also judged me for it and tried to make me feel ashamed or less than evolved for liking it. It didn't even matter what the song was about. I felt judged, and I felt I didn't want to be boxed in or told what I should and shouldn't like.

I didn't come here for validation. I came here because I knew this argument was stupid and we fell into old patterns and I'd rather not do that anymore. If I was in the wrong, I'm willing to apologize and take accountability. If there is feedback I can give him, I'd like to be able to talk about that with him, instead of do what we normally do - just pretend it didn't happen and move on, so that it can just pop up again next time.

Oh, God, men like this are exhausting. They want to debate everyone but the second someone disagrees they blow up. My xH was like this and it’s a large part of why we divorced.

No, you’re not in the wrong and I’d be having a serious come to Jesus talk with him about this behavior. Is therapy an option?

So many men are like this. Insecure men are the worst. Marrying one was a bad decision but you are stuck now. I also suggest therapy.

I actually agree that your husband was probably right - modern pop culture promotes sexual promiscuity and degeneracy as “liberation” in an attempt to condition women to be more available to male sexual preferences.

But it’s not worth haranguing your spouse over a difference in interpretation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In retrospect, a PP hit on a fundamental communication problem between Dh and me. He has said before that he just wants to engage in an intellectual debate with me, but instead, I take things personally, feel attacked, and just get my feelings hurt instead. I do think he probably wishes he married someone who he could verbally spar and debate with, where both parties are trying their best to "win". Anger, insults, rude comments - all fair game.

I take this with a giant grain of salt though, because the very second I disagree with him on something, HE is the one who gets very defensive. He wants me to be supportive of him 100% and takes any disagreement as an attack on him. So I think in this case, he probably wanted me to say something like, oh hmmm, yeah I never thought about that way, maybe you're right, tell me more about why you think that way?

But I was irked because here I was just enjoying a song. And in my view, not only did he crap on me for it, he also judged me for it and tried to make me feel ashamed or less than evolved for liking it. It didn't even matter what the song was about. I felt judged, and I felt I didn't want to be boxed in or told what I should and shouldn't like.

I didn't come here for validation. I came here because I knew this argument was stupid and we fell into old patterns and I'd rather not do that anymore. If I was in the wrong, I'm willing to apologize and take accountability. If there is feedback I can give him, I'd like to be able to talk about that with him, instead of do what we normally do - just pretend it didn't happen and move on, so that it can just pop up again next time.

Oh, God, men like this are exhausting. They want to debate everyone but the second someone disagrees they blow up. My xH was like this and it’s a large part of why we divorced.

No, you’re not in the wrong and I’d be having a serious come to Jesus talk with him about this behavior. Is therapy an option?

So many men are like this. Insecure men are the worst. Marrying one was a bad decision but you are stuck now. I also suggest therapy.

I actually agree that your husband was probably right - modern pop culture promotes sexual promiscuity and degeneracy as “liberation” in an attempt to condition women to be more available to male sexual preferences.

But it’s not worth haranguing your spouse over a difference in interpretation.

It's worth it if she's playing that song in front of your daughter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read this as op and her husband both being stubborn asses who dug their heels in on an argument. Just because op is a women doesn’t give her some higher better voice on a misogynist song. You guys have toxicity and both should have dropped this. Shame on you both for bringing your kids into it.

+1 It’s interesting that everyone is siding with the OP. I think it’s was a meaningless argument that was really just a receptacle for their anger/vitriol toward each other. The content was irrelevant - I mean, I get that it didn’t feel that way to them because they were both pretty wound up - but it’s likely that under the surface they were arguing about something deeper or more historic in their relationship. Disagreeing about the meaning of a song devolved into slinging insults at each other (and I personally believe that all art is subjective, no matter what the artist’s intended meaning).

Update: Okay, I just re-read the OP to gut-check myself and I do have to admit that the DH starting with “you women” was pretty hostile/baiting. I would’ve called my DH out on that. But it seems to have gotten buried under the back-and-forth argument about who was right, when the bigger issue is about communication.

[Anonymous]

Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

I absolutely respect those rights, but please don't play songs about it in front of my children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In retrospect, a PP hit on a fundamental communication problem between Dh and me. He has said before that he just wants to engage in an intellectual debate with me, but instead, I take things personally, feel attacked, and just get my feelings hurt instead. I do think he probably wishes he married someone who he could verbally spar and debate with, where both parties are trying their best to "win". Anger, insults, rude comments - all fair game.

I take this with a giant grain of salt though, because the very second I disagree with him on something, HE is the one who gets very defensive. He wants me to be supportive of him 100% and takes any disagreement as an attack on him. So I think in this case, he probably wanted me to say something like, oh hmmm, yeah I never thought about that way, maybe you're right, tell me more about why you think that way?

But I was irked because here I was just enjoying a song. And in my view, not only did he crap on me for it, he also judged me for it and tried to make me feel ashamed or less than evolved for liking it. It didn't even matter what the song was about. I felt judged, and I felt I didn't want to be boxed in or told what I should and shouldn't like.

I didn't come here for validation. I came here because I knew this argument was stupid and we fell into old patterns and I'd rather not do that anymore. If I was in the wrong, I'm willing to apologize and take accountability. If there is feedback I can give him, I'd like to be able to talk about that with him, instead of do what we normally do - just pretend it didn't happen and move on, so that it can just pop up again next time.

Oh, God, men like this are exhausting. They want to debate everyone but the second someone disagrees they blow up. My xH was like this and it’s a large part of why we divorced.

No, you’re not in the wrong and I’d be having a serious come to Jesus talk with him about this behavior. Is therapy an option?

So many men are like this. Insecure men are the worst. Marrying one was a bad decision but you are stuck now. I also suggest therapy.

I actually agree that your husband was probably right - modern pop culture promotes sexual promiscuity and degeneracy as “liberation” in an attempt to condition women to be more available to male sexual preferences.

But it’s not worth haranguing your spouse over a difference in interpretation.

It's worth it if she's playing that song in front of your daughter

Then you talk to her in private about the song. You don’t start saying misogynistic things in front of your daughter or picking mean-spirited fights in front of your daughter.

That is setting an even worse example than a song does. Kids are gonna hear pop songs no matter what. But they learn how to behave in relationships from watching their parents. If dad is an a-hole, she learns that’s how men are and will accept that treatment.

This could have been an opportunity for dad to demonstrate how men treat their wives with honor, respect, and care. Instead he chose to be a jerk. Terrible example for the kids.

[Anonymous]

To be brutally honest, this is like a fight two 14 year olds would have. Sorry. But I think you need more work on your communication as a couple. It seems like a dynamic you are both enabling. Like, if he gets into this “logical argument” mode then you need to be able to shut it down instead of getting worked up. Especially since you know it’s happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

I absolutely respect those rights, but please don't play songs about it in front of my children

Hate to break it to you, but your kids are gonna hear it anyway. And god help you when your sheltered child grows up and moves away.

I grew up in a very evangelical, Focus On The Family community where kids were sheltered and sex was seen as bad. Every single one of those kids ended up promiscuous after they left home, with many unplanned pregnancies.

Better to have open and honest conversations with your kids about sex. Sheltering never helped anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

I absolutely respect those rights, but please don't play songs about it in front of my children

Hate to break it to you, but your kids are gonna hear it anyway. And god help you when your sheltered child grows up and moves away.

I grew up in a very evangelical, Focus On The Family community where kids were sheltered and sex was seen as bad. Every single one of those kids ended up promiscuous after they left home, with many unplanned pregnancies.

Better to have open and honest conversations with your kids about sex. Sheltering never helped anybody.

Ironically, an open and honest conversation is what OPs dh started. The kids even got involved thinking about what the song meant, and maybe even the societal meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

I absolutely respect those rights, but please don't play songs about it in front of my children

Hate to break it to you, but your kids are gonna hear it anyway. And god help you when your sheltered child grows up and moves away.

I grew up in a very evangelical, Focus On The Family community where kids were sheltered and sex was seen as bad. Every single one of those kids ended up promiscuous after they left home, with many unplanned pregnancies.

Better to have open and honest conversations with your kids about sex. Sheltering never helped anybody.

Ironically, an open and honest conversation is what OPs dh started. The kids even got involved thinking about what the song meant, and maybe even the societal meaning.

It wasn’t open and honest. Open and honest would be “as a woman, how do you feel about XYZ?” Instead he just went on the attack and did the dreaded “you people”. He wasn’t interested in hearing other perspectives, he was interested in bullying people and feeding his own ego.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In retrospect, a PP hit on a fundamental communication problem between Dh and me. He has said before that he just wants to engage in an intellectual debate with me, but instead, I take things personally, feel attacked, and just get my feelings hurt instead. I do think he probably wishes he married someone who he could verbally spar and debate with, where both parties are trying their best to "win". Anger, insults, rude comments - all fair game.

I take this with a giant grain of salt though, because the very second I disagree with him on something, HE is the one who gets very defensive. He wants me to be supportive of him 100% and takes any disagreement as an attack on him. So I think in this case, he probably wanted me to say something like, oh hmmm, yeah I never thought about that way, maybe you're right, tell me more about why you think that way?

But I was irked because here I was just enjoying a song. And in my view, not only did he crap on me for it, he also judged me for it and tried to make me feel ashamed or less than evolved for liking it. It didn't even matter what the song was about. I felt judged, and I felt I didn't want to be boxed in or told what I should and shouldn't like.

I didn't come here for validation. I came here because I knew this argument was stupid and we fell into old patterns and I'd rather not do that anymore. If I was in the wrong, I'm willing to apologize and take accountability. If there is feedback I can give him, I'd like to be able to talk about that with him, instead of do what we normally do - just pretend it didn't happen and move on, so that it can just pop up again next time.

Oh, God, men like this are exhausting. They want to debate everyone but the second someone disagrees they blow up. My xH was like this and it’s a large part of why we divorced.

No, you’re not in the wrong and I’d be having a serious come to Jesus talk with him about this behavior. Is therapy an option?

So many men are like this. Insecure men are the worst. Marrying one was a bad decision but you are stuck now. I also suggest therapy.

I actually agree that your husband was probably right - modern pop culture promotes sexual promiscuity and degeneracy as “liberation” in an attempt to condition women to be more available to male sexual preferences.

But it’s not worth haranguing your spouse over a difference in interpretation.

It's worth it if she's playing that song in front of your daughter

lol…Do you honestly believe that your daughter listening to a pop song about a stripper is worse for her development than regularly watching her dad talk down to her mom?

If you care about your daughter finding a man who will treat her well, then the best thing to do is treat her mom well. Treat your wife how you want your daughter’s husband to treat her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah women are complete hypocrites about everything. The same women at work going on and on about diversity and emotional intelligence head out running in the morning to playlists full of talk about hoes, drinking, being sluts etc. it's ...empowering or something

You can be empowered, be emotionally intelligent, have a career, and still enjoy sex. Even rough sex, degrading sex, casual sex, sex with multiple men.

The key is consent. If you didn’t consent to sexual contact with a man, he has zero right to touch you, send you pictures, or talk to you sexually. If you say no, he needs to stop.

You can say this all you want, it doesn’t make it true.