He used red pill terminology

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“This guy in dating says women are whores. But there are good things about him.”

WTF.

Guy *I’m* dating ^

[Anonymous]

I came across an academic paper that describes some of the commonalities and differences in the various communities.

"[G]roups within the Manosphere broadly embrace ‘Red Pill’ philosophy. This philosophy is a conceptual metaphor derived from the 1999 film The Matrix and which in the Manosphere is held to reveal the true machinations of the ‘real’ world— a world that economic models of scarcity, biological essentialism,
and evolutionary hierarchies fundamentally govern, but which has paradoxically become socially restrained and feminized. Consumers of this Red Pill claim that the harsh realities of the world they perceive remain largely hidden to the social majority, which remains deluded or ignorant thanks to the continual imbibement of the contrasting ‘Blue Pill’. Effectively, the Red Pill promises an antidote to what is regarded as modern men’s ‘slavery’ to women and an unjust social hierarchy. Men are informed that they live within a pecking order comprised of a minority of ‘Alphas.’ and the majority of so-called Blue-Pill ‘Betas.’
...
The Red Pill, as a framework, provides a diverse set of Manosphere groups with a particular narrative about how and why men’s lives have become increasingly difficult and insecure and provide new categories and routines through which to concretize a sense of self. For example, PUAs embrace the Red Pill in their adherence to the idea that men need to adopt non-Blue Pill strategies and game the ‘system’ to successfully meet and seduce women (and
often seem to enjoy the thrill of the ‘chase’ more than the outcome) (O’Neill, 2018). By contrast, while MGTOWs adhere to the same aspects of the Red Pill framework (i.e., that being Blue Pill leads to poor interactions with women and inevitably a miserable and dead-end marriage for betas), they conclude that a non-alpha man is best off avoiding women altogether. Thus, they pursue a life without women. MRAs are interested in raising social awareness for issues that affect men negatively and which they believe are the result of a predominantly Blue Pill society. For example, they often highlight how outcomes of divorce proceedings seem to unfairly limit a man’s access to his children while simultaneously transferring a disproportionate amount of his financial assets to the woman (an outcome referred to as “divorce-rape” in both Red Pill and MRA contexts ). Lastly, those in the incel community also commit to the Red Pill concept that women ‘date up’ (by seeking ‘high-value men’); however, they typically believe that PUA strategies will not work for them due to factors around biological determinism and evolutionary psychology that preclude them from being a viable partner for a woman."

Source: https://fastcapitalism.journal.library.uta.edu/index.php/fastcapitalism/article/view/447/524

[Anonymous]

Everybody is stupid about something, especially things they have no experience with, like living as a different sex and gender.

If he has strongly redeeming qualities and you have time to be patient, and he's open-minded, you can educate him. If he's receptive and willing to think and explore, he can outgrow it and you get a great guy and you've made the world better for everyone.

But if he gets defensive about it, leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He inferred that women over 30 who aren’t married are whores who just want to have a bunch of sex, and that their degrees won’t keep them warm at night. He also made multiple comments about how “women are”. It’s weird that he kept lumping all women together and generalizing. I’ve run across this before and find it creepy. But there were also good things about him.

That's just garden variety misogyny, perhaps with a flavor of red pill.

Why you'd be interested in continuing to hang out with this person is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 19yo ds is into the red pill. I have let him run his mouth about it to see how far down the hole he has gone. Most of it is about politics/economic structure (matrix) but it has also given him significant motivation to work hard and take care of himself - almost like a guide for what it is to be a "high value man." I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows how I feel about Andrew Tate.

Now, if I were dating a man in his 40s or whatever who referred to anything re Red Pill or used the words OP said he did, I would be out of there immediately.

You believe you're being smart and cagey, letting him "run his mouth" so you can gauge how far his thinking goes. But you're actually being naive (a term I feel sure will make you furious, but...you are naive.) Why? "I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows...." etc. What you have "heard" means exactly nothing. You have no idea what he's reading online, what he's writing in posts, what is inside his head. Just because you haven't heard comments you think are clearly misogynist, that does not mean he isn't engaging with others you don't know, and isn't buying every idea they're selling. He's your little boy and knows not to spew red pill misogyny in front of mom; that does not mean he isn't absorbing and internalizing it. But you seem to think it's good enough that you haven't heard it and he knows how you feel about ONE commentator. If you don't actually dig into what he thinks and tell him in no uncertain terms he's wrong, you have abdicated your role as a mother of a young man who is going to end up just another red piller, treating women...the way red pill men do.

And you even find the silver lining! He's working hard and taking care of himself to become a "high value man." The fact you present that as a kind of positive is baffling. Men can, and do, work hard and take care of themselves without the inspiration of this particular way of thinking. You sound desperate to find some kind of "up side" to your son's descent into this way of thinking. Well, he'll be buff, at least.

DP. Lay off. There’s no one proven way to respond. You seem more interested in forcing a mother to condemn and write off her son, than in what it would take to actually educate him and persuade him. I personally believe that the less taboo you make this stuff, the better. If this PP totally polarizes the matter, do you think that will help?

Condemn and write off? No.

Speak up clearly and unequivocally, calling out this red pill insanity, being clear that she can love him but also will not tolerate certain things? Yes.

Strange that you don't see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot of conflation with red pill and incel mentality as well. We have had a lot of discussion about that. DS hates the incel mentality.

Incel is a subset of red pill. What they have in common is a belief that the socially acceptable descriptions of what women want in a man are fundamentally dishonest or misleading. They divide over what to do with that "truth." Pickup artists, incels, men going their own way, mens right's activists, proud boys and the rest of them all have different (sometimes overlapping) approaches, but none of them involve healthy relationships with women.

The incel (/ˈɪnsɛl/ IN-sel, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibate") subculture is an online subculture of people who define themselves as unable to get a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one. These are both men and women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot of conflation with red pill and incel mentality as well. We have had a lot of discussion about that. DS hates the incel mentality.

Incel is a subset of red pill. What they have in common is a belief that the socially acceptable descriptions of what women want in a man are fundamentally dishonest or misleading. They divide over what to do with that "truth." Pickup artists, incels, men going their own way, mens right's activists, proud boys and the rest of them all have different (sometimes overlapping) approaches, but none of them involve healthy relationships with women.

The incel (/ˈɪnsɛl/ IN-sel, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibate") subculture is an online subculture of people who define themselves as unable to get a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one. These are both men and women.

Ie it is not a subset of red pill and incel would not applied to OP boyfriend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot of conflation with red pill and incel mentality as well. We have had a lot of discussion about that. DS hates the incel mentality.

Incel is a subset of red pill. What they have in common is a belief that the socially acceptable descriptions of what women want in a man are fundamentally dishonest or misleading. They divide over what to do with that "truth." Pickup artists, incels, men going their own way, mens right's activists, proud boys and the rest of them all have different (sometimes overlapping) approaches, but none of them involve healthy relationships with women.

The incel (/ˈɪnsɛl/ IN-sel, a portmanteau of "involuntary celibate") subculture is an online subculture of people who define themselves as unable to get a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one. These are both men and women.

Ie it is not a subset of red pill and incel would not applied to OP boyfriend.

It absolutely is a subset of the redpill culture. The primary group of incels as we’re familiar with them today blame their celibacy on what they regard as the unfortunate “truth” about women’s sexuality (e.g. women wanting “alpha” males).

The term “incel” seems to have started with a woman who started a fairly wholesome online support group for people, men and women, frustrated in love. But that’s not at all the common usage of the word today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I came across an academic paper that describes some of the commonalities and differences in the various communities.

"[G]roups within the Manosphere broadly embrace ‘Red Pill’ philosophy. This philosophy is a conceptual metaphor derived from the 1999 film The Matrix and which in the Manosphere is held to reveal the true machinations of the ‘real’ world— a world that economic models of scarcity, biological essentialism,
and evolutionary hierarchies fundamentally govern, but which has paradoxically become socially restrained and feminized. Consumers of this Red Pill claim that the harsh realities of the world they perceive remain largely hidden to the social majority, which remains deluded or ignorant thanks to the continual imbibement of the contrasting ‘Blue Pill’. Effectively, the Red Pill promises an antidote to what is regarded as modern men’s ‘slavery’ to women and an unjust social hierarchy. Men are informed that they live within a pecking order comprised of a minority of ‘Alphas.’ and the majority of so-called Blue-Pill ‘Betas.’
...
The Red Pill, as a framework, provides a diverse set of Manosphere groups with a particular narrative about how and why men’s lives have become increasingly difficult and insecure and provide new categories and routines through which to concretize a sense of self. For example, PUAs embrace the Red Pill in their adherence to the idea that men need to adopt non-Blue Pill strategies and game the ‘system’ to successfully meet and seduce women (and
often seem to enjoy the thrill of the ‘chase’ more than the outcome) (O’Neill, 2018). By contrast, while MGTOWs adhere to the same aspects of the Red Pill framework (i.e., that being Blue Pill leads to poor interactions with women and inevitably a miserable and dead-end marriage for betas), they conclude that a non-alpha man is best off avoiding women altogether. Thus, they pursue a life without women. MRAs are interested in raising social awareness for issues that affect men negatively and which they believe are the result of a predominantly Blue Pill society. For example, they often highlight how outcomes of divorce proceedings seem to unfairly limit a man’s access to his children while simultaneously transferring a disproportionate amount of his financial assets to the woman (an outcome referred to as “divorce-rape” in both Red Pill and MRA contexts ). Lastly, those in the incel community also commit to the Red Pill concept that women ‘date up’ (by seeking ‘high-value men’); however, they typically believe that PUA strategies will not work for them due to factors around biological determinism and evolutionary psychology that preclude them from being a viable partner for a woman."

Source: https://fastcapitalism.journal.library.uta.edu/index.php/fastcapitalism/article/view/447/524

This article doesn't seem right. It doesn't mention anything about Republicans.

[Anonymous]

I was looped into a big project at work recently (it was my choice whether to take it on) and the person who was leading it ended the invitation email with a "do you want to take the red pill...or...?" kind of spiel. Listen. It was weird. And I didn't love it. But I know the person well enough to know it was Matrix-talk and not political at all. So I just shrugged it off as a misguided social call.

It could be that. Or not!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 19yo ds is into the red pill. I have let him run his mouth about it to see how far down the hole he has gone. Most of it is about politics/economic structure (matrix) but it has also given him significant motivation to work hard and take care of himself - almost like a guide for what it is to be a "high value man." I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows how I feel about Andrew Tate.

Now, if I were dating a man in his 40s or whatever who referred to anything re Red Pill or used the words OP said he did, I would be out of there immediately.

You believe you're being smart and cagey, letting him "run his mouth" so you can gauge how far his thinking goes. But you're actually being naive (a term I feel sure will make you furious, but...you are naive.) Why? "I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows...." etc. What you have "heard" means exactly nothing. You have no idea what he's reading online, what he's writing in posts, what is inside his head. Just because you haven't heard comments you think are clearly misogynist, that does not mean he isn't engaging with others you don't know, and isn't buying every idea they're selling. He's your little boy and knows not to spew red pill misogyny in front of mom; that does not mean he isn't absorbing and internalizing it. But you seem to think it's good enough that you haven't heard it and he knows how you feel about ONE commentator. If you don't actually dig into what he thinks and tell him in no uncertain terms he's wrong, you have abdicated your role as a mother of a young man who is going to end up just another red piller, treating women...the way red pill men do.

And you even find the silver lining! He's working hard and taking care of himself to become a "high value man." The fact you present that as a kind of positive is baffling. Men can, and do, work hard and take care of themselves without the inspiration of this particular way of thinking. You sound desperate to find some kind of "up side" to your son's descent into this way of thinking. Well, he'll be buff, at least.

DP. Lay off. There’s no one proven way to respond. You seem more interested in forcing a mother to condemn and write off her son, than in what it would take to actually educate him and persuade him. I personally believe that the less taboo you make this stuff, the better. If this PP totally polarizes the matter, do you think that will help?

Condemn and write off? No.

Speak up clearly and unequivocally, calling out this red pill insanity, being clear that she can love him but also will not tolerate certain things? Yes.

Strange that you don't see the difference.

Not tolerate what? Ideas and beliefs he has? She can make clear she disagrees but saying “I will not tolerate your beliefs!” is a really juvenile way to go about engaging with someone.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there's really any coming back from any sentence that includes "women are whores" into good boy friend material

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's really any coming back from any sentence that includes "women are whores" into good boy friend material

Lol, yes, this.

[Anonymous]

OP - how about you stop expending energy on labeling people and instead trust your preferences. Don't be with him. It doesn't matter -what- is going on in his head. You don't have to figure-him-out. Choose a healthy relationship. That's where you should put your energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 19yo ds is into the red pill. I have let him run his mouth about it to see how far down the hole he has gone. Most of it is about politics/economic structure (matrix) but it has also given him significant motivation to work hard and take care of himself - almost like a guide for what it is to be a "high value man." I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows how I feel about Andrew Tate.

Now, if I were dating a man in his 40s or whatever who referred to anything re Red Pill or used the words OP said he did, I would be out of there immediately.

You believe you're being smart and cagey, letting him "run his mouth" so you can gauge how far his thinking goes. But you're actually being naive (a term I feel sure will make you furious, but...you are naive.) Why? "I have not heard misogyny but I am his mother and he knows...." etc. What you have "heard" means exactly nothing. You have no idea what he's reading online, what he's writing in posts, what is inside his head. Just because you haven't heard comments you think are clearly misogynist, that does not mean he isn't engaging with others you don't know, and isn't buying every idea they're selling. He's your little boy and knows not to spew red pill misogyny in front of mom; that does not mean he isn't absorbing and internalizing it. But you seem to think it's good enough that you haven't heard it and he knows how you feel about ONE commentator. If you don't actually dig into what he thinks and tell him in no uncertain terms he's wrong, you have abdicated your role as a mother of a young man who is going to end up just another red piller, treating women...the way red pill men do.

And you even find the silver lining! He's working hard and taking care of himself to become a "high value man." The fact you present that as a kind of positive is baffling. Men can, and do, work hard and take care of themselves without the inspiration of this particular way of thinking. You sound desperate to find some kind of "up side" to your son's descent into this way of thinking. Well, he'll be buff, at least.

DP. Lay off. There’s no one proven way to respond. You seem more interested in forcing a mother to condemn and write off her son, than in what it would take to actually educate him and persuade him. I personally believe that the less taboo you make this stuff, the better. If this PP totally polarizes the matter, do you think that will help?

Condemn and write off? No.

Speak up clearly and unequivocally, calling out this red pill insanity, being clear that she can love him but also will not tolerate certain things? Yes.

Strange that you don't see the difference.

Not tolerate what? Ideas and beliefs he has? She can make clear she disagrees but saying “I will not tolerate your beliefs!” is a really juvenile way to go about engaging with someone.

DP. Wut? You think she should tolerate misogyny?

No wonder this country is going down the sheeter.