SIL emotionally dependent on our family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?

Prob enforcing boundaries they’ve previously set around SIL’s freeloading ways

How do you define "freeloading"? I think my definition is very different....

(Also, did you even read what OP said about the dynamic between SIL and the parents?)

She doesn’t ask, she tells her brother and OP when she wants to show up. OP doesn’t make mention of SIL offering to grab pizza one night, or pick up bagels and juice for one breakfast (SIL has the cash to stay in a hotel so she’s not broke). SIL is also mooching off of her elderly parents for plane tickets.

1. Not asking has nothing to do with freeloading.
2. Correct, no specifics were offered about who pays for pizza or bagels. So that is not evidence for or against freeloading.
3. She may be "freeloading" off the parents, based on what OP "thinks" (but does not know). But clearly they are OK with it, which is proof that they are not "enforcing boundaries" around the sister.

Based on OP’s description I bet the parents are happy to pay for her flight so they don’t have Spinster Sis at their home for weeks at a time every holiday season.

Really? What part of OP's posts make you say that?

Was it this? "His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes."
Or this? "DH partially blames his parents for the situation. They catered to her all of their lives and were very upset when she wanted to move away."

Or the complete absence of saying that ANYTHING about SIL is bad other than that she is around more than they want and that she does not wait for an invitation?

And tell me more about your use of "Spinster"? What did you mean to convey by that term?

Oooh I’ve struck a nerve! Found the SIL! Go find friends and hobbies and expand your world outside your brother’s family.

Spinster: an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

God, you people are so predictable and so tiresome. Always with these these same insipid middle school wannabe-gotcha moment replies?

Several of us disagree with you. I’m neither PP nor OP, I’m married with kids and you sound like a pathetic, insecure overgrown mean girl. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?

Prob enforcing boundaries they’ve previously set around SIL’s freeloading ways

How do you define "freeloading"? I think my definition is very different....

(Also, did you even read what OP said about the dynamic between SIL and the parents?)

She doesn’t ask, she tells her brother and OP when she wants to show up. OP doesn’t make mention of SIL offering to grab pizza one night, or pick up bagels and juice for one breakfast (SIL has the cash to stay in a hotel so she’s not broke). SIL is also mooching off of her elderly parents for plane tickets.

1. Not asking has nothing to do with freeloading.
2. Correct, no specifics were offered about who pays for pizza or bagels. So that is not evidence for or against freeloading.
3. She may be "freeloading" off the parents, based on what OP "thinks" (but does not know). But clearly they are OK with it, which is proof that they are not "enforcing boundaries" around the sister.

Based on OP’s description I bet the parents are happy to pay for her flight so they don’t have Spinster Sis at their home for weeks at a time every holiday season.

Really? What part of OP's posts make you say that?

Was it this? "His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes."
Or this? "DH partially blames his parents for the situation. They catered to her all of their lives and were very upset when she wanted to move away."

Or the complete absence of saying that ANYTHING about SIL is bad other than that she is around more than they want and that she does not wait for an invitation?

And tell me more about your use of "Spinster"? What did you mean to convey by that term?

Oooh I’ve struck a nerve! Found the SIL! Go find friends and hobbies and expand your world outside your brother’s family.

Spinster: an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

So you think I am the SIL and you offered advice as to what I should do with my life.

Any interest in responding to my actual question?

(Providing a definition of spinster is not the same as explaining why you chose to use the term.)

Yeah, I used the term because the shoe fits.

But why did you feel the need to use the term “Spinster Sis”? It was obvious she was older and unmarried. How did using that term add value or meaning?
What about my main question? Still think the parents don’t want her around? If so, why?

Spinster is an accurate description of SIL. Sorry if it hurts your feelings. Her parents seem all too happy to pawn her off on brother and his wife, they’re not insisting that SIL come for one of the holidays each year - heck they are paying for her flight to see OP’s family. You must see yourself as the SIL with the personal offense you’re taking in this thread.

What makes you think I am taking personal offense?

“SIL” is also an accurate description of the woman. It is the one that has been used uniformly throughout this thread. What I am asking is why you chose not to use the same term as everyone else?

Because you continue to ask a question you’ve already been provided a valid response to. You’re pressed, lady! Check out G Tours, great way to travel with a like minded group, and absolves your extended family from having to deal with your temper tantrum from assuming you can carve out a permanent lump on their couch well into your 80s. Hope you find peace and happiness!

Maybe I was not clear in my two questions. I’ll try again:
1. Why do you think SIL’s parents do not want to be around her?
One fact you offered was that they *may* pay for her plane tickets to see OP’s family. Facts that counter this include….everything else OP wrote.
2. Why did you choose to call he “Spinster Sis” instead of SIL, like everyone else on this thread?
You provided no answer to this, other than to say it was an accurate description, which was…..not the question.

If it helps you find “peace and happiness” to make assumptions about my life and to describe my questions as a “temper tantrum”, well I guess I’m glad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?

Prob enforcing boundaries they’ve previously set around SIL’s freeloading ways

How do you define "freeloading"? I think my definition is very different....

(Also, did you even read what OP said about the dynamic between SIL and the parents?)

She doesn’t ask, she tells her brother and OP when she wants to show up. OP doesn’t make mention of SIL offering to grab pizza one night, or pick up bagels and juice for one breakfast (SIL has the cash to stay in a hotel so she’s not broke). SIL is also mooching off of her elderly parents for plane tickets.

1. Not asking has nothing to do with freeloading.
2. Correct, no specifics were offered about who pays for pizza or bagels. So that is not evidence for or against freeloading.
3. She may be "freeloading" off the parents, based on what OP "thinks" (but does not know). But clearly they are OK with it, which is proof that they are not "enforcing boundaries" around the sister.

Based on OP’s description I bet the parents are happy to pay for her flight so they don’t have Spinster Sis at their home for weeks at a time every holiday season.

Really? What part of OP's posts make you say that?

Was it this? "His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes."
Or this? "DH partially blames his parents for the situation. They catered to her all of their lives and were very upset when she wanted to move away."

Or the complete absence of saying that ANYTHING about SIL is bad other than that she is around more than they want and that she does not wait for an invitation?

And tell me more about your use of "Spinster"? What did you mean to convey by that term?

Oooh I’ve struck a nerve! Found the SIL! Go find friends and hobbies and expand your world outside your brother’s family.

Spinster: an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

So you think I am the SIL and you offered advice as to what I should do with my life.

Any interest in responding to my actual question?

(Providing a definition of spinster is not the same as explaining why you chose to use the term.)

I think we've all figured out why you're still single.

Insulting and assuming, without at all answering or engaging in discourse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?

Prob enforcing boundaries they’ve previously set around SIL’s freeloading ways

How do you define "freeloading"? I think my definition is very different....

(Also, did you even read what OP said about the dynamic between SIL and the parents?)

She doesn’t ask, she tells her brother and OP when she wants to show up. OP doesn’t make mention of SIL offering to grab pizza one night, or pick up bagels and juice for one breakfast (SIL has the cash to stay in a hotel so she’s not broke). SIL is also mooching off of her elderly parents for plane tickets.

1. Not asking has nothing to do with freeloading.
2. Correct, no specifics were offered about who pays for pizza or bagels. So that is not evidence for or against freeloading.
3. She may be "freeloading" off the parents, based on what OP "thinks" (but does not know). But clearly they are OK with it, which is proof that they are not "enforcing boundaries" around the sister.

Based on OP’s description I bet the parents are happy to pay for her flight so they don’t have Spinster Sis at their home for weeks at a time every holiday season.

Really? What part of OP's posts make you say that?

Was it this? "His parents always take her side-- I think she's forever 12 in their eyes."
Or this? "DH partially blames his parents for the situation. They catered to her all of their lives and were very upset when she wanted to move away."

Or the complete absence of saying that ANYTHING about SIL is bad other than that she is around more than they want and that she does not wait for an invitation?

And tell me more about your use of "Spinster"? What did you mean to convey by that term?

Oooh I’ve struck a nerve! Found the SIL! Go find friends and hobbies and expand your world outside your brother’s family.

Spinster: an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage.

So you think I am the SIL and you offered advice as to what I should do with my life.

Any interest in responding to my actual question?

(Providing a definition of spinster is not the same as explaining why you chose to use the term.)

I think we've all figured out why you're still single.

Insulting and assuming, without at all answering or engaging in discourse.

I'm sure that OP appreciates that you've completely derailed her thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of like SIL. I'm single with no kids and not much money. I live near my brother and his family. If they invite me for holidays, I go. If they don't, I am home alone. Am I sad that they're going to Mexico over Thanksgiving and going to meet my SIL's family there and nobody invited me? Yes. Will I complain to other family members about it? No. That's not my way. I'll just be a little sad by myself but mostly just fine, having the same kind of evening/weekend I normally have.

An honest question- why do you think you should or would be invited to join your SIL and her family for thanksgiving in Mexico?

I don't. It'd just be nice to have been invited, that's all.

But don’t you feel like a third wheel intruding on their vacation?

So little empathy these days. After my paternal grandmother died, my mothers family went out of their way to include my bachelor uncle in holiday dinners so he wouldn’t be alone. Did they have to? Of course not. But it costs nothing to be kind. Put yourself in someone else’s shoes and think about how you would feel. But apparently that’s asking too much of our self-centered culture these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are not a good SIL. She is family. You owe her a connection, no questions asked. You're dumping her over the holidays. That really, really sucks.

You’re just a doormat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you feel no obligation to a family member who has no one and is lonely over the holidays? How lovely. And what a lovely way to model to your children being a kind, empathetic person. Then again, we could always use another ruthlessly self interested person -- on the roads, in the grocery store, at work -- so we look forward to your DC growing up and joining society. The board approves.

Well said. It is hard to believe that you think you are a good person, OP, when you are so clearly showing that you aren't. You can't make even a little room in your heart for this woman? You can't even suggest that she come to town and stay in a hotel (you can pay or you can pay halfsies or you can tell her to pay the cost herself, whichever you choose) just so one less person will be alone on the holidays? Your husband's sister? I would be so embarrassed to be you.

Found the moochers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of like SIL. I'm single with no kids and not much money. I live near my brother and his family. If they invite me for holidays, I go. If they don't, I am home alone. Am I sad that they're going to Mexico over Thanksgiving and going to meet my SIL's family there and nobody invited me? Yes. Will I complain to other family members about it? No. That's not my way. I'll just be a little sad by myself but mostly just fine, having the same kind of evening/weekend I normally have.

An honest question- why do you think you should or would be invited to join your SIL and her family for thanksgiving in Mexico?

I don't. It'd just be nice to have been invited, that's all.

But don’t you feel like a third wheel intruding on their vacation?

SIL’s family consists of three single people. So I’d be a fourth. That would be eight people total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not a good SIL. She is family. You owe her a connection, no questions asked. You're dumping her over the holidays. That really, really sucks.

You’re just a doormat.

OP is being more than fair. She and her spouse have a right to spend holidays how they choose. This SIL trying to guilt trip them into hosting her is HER problem, not the OP.

[Anonymous]

It’s one thing to include a person for a holiday meal, but it seems the SIL is inviting herself for a few days and sleeping on the couch while the OP is working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has been enabled and coddled and there is a dysfunctional dynamic. I relate. I have a sister like this, but we were never close. In my case she is not a nice person, but my parents ignored and/or got defensive any times teachers expressed concerns about how she treated others. So now she is a lonely and mope and they have fed a victim mentality for too long. If we don't always include her she, a middle aged woman, cries to mommy and starts a drama.

You stick with your boundaries and stop enabling, but expect the family to go nuts. All hell broke loose. Eventually finally, when we stuck to our boundaries and she could not manipulate the situation she got help. She got therapy and meds and stopped blaming us and anyone else for her unhappiness. She also tries to form a network where she is. Unfortunately, she goes off those meds and the drams start up again but we stick to our boundaries. She is a bright and capable person who needs to be expected to develop a life for herself and now that we have boundaries sheis doing it. We didn't cut her off, we just stopped playing the games.

yup. I'm in the same situation. OP, know that when you put up boundaries your SIL will freak out and escalate in the hopes of getting past them (extinction burst). but ultimately, IT WILL BENEFIT her. she will grow up and take responsibility for her life. Good luck to you, stay strong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have no idea if OP is a selfish nightmare or if the sister-in-law is an entitled jerk.

When did this pattern of her visiting start? When it started were you fine with it? When did that change? Other than occupying the sofa bed and taking up physical space in your home, is she a good guest? Is she polite, helpful and appreciative or does she spend the whole visit complaining? What is her relationship like with your kids? Does she engage with them and act as another positive adult influence in their lives or does she only like to play fun auntie briefly for a few selfies and then ignore them the rest of the visit? What is your relationship like with her outside of as a houseguest? Do you or your husband talk to her or check in with her when she’s not staying with you? When was the last time you guys went and visited her in her home?

I agree that nobody is obligated to spend holidays in a particular way, but Thanksgiving and Christmas are both big family holidays that mean a lot to some people. And it sounds like in previous years you would’ve been absolutely fine hosting her For one or both of those big holidays. You may choose to see her visiting so often and staying on your couch as being “emotionally dependent on your family“ but she may just as easily view it as her putting in the work to build a relationship with her nieces and nephews and with her brother and his wife. How else is she supposed to connect with you all if she lives in a condo and doesn’t have room to comfortably host you/doesn’t want to put the burden of buying plane tickets for your family on you?

In short, it’s very obvious that you dislike her as a person and find her annoying, but that’s not the same thing as saying that she’s a bad sister, Aunt, or houseguest.

If she has been a good sister, aunt and houseguest over the years, and you were suddenly pulling the rug out on her ability to see your family over these two major holidays when that has been part of her routine for years now, that definitely feels pretty abrupt and inconsiderate.

It also sounds like your family is pretty passive aggressive in terms of the fact that you and your husband have apparently discussed at length with one another the fact that this arrangement no longer works for you, but the first she is hearing of it is when you are announcing a change to your routine for these two major holidays. Why could you not have told her the first time you noticed that it was getting on your nerves to have a houseguest that she was welcome to visit but you’d prefer she get a hotel because you’d like more privacy/ alone time in your home now that you are working from a home office? why could you not have had a conversation a year ago about how you’d like to limit visits to X number of times a year?

In short, you are welcome to handle this exactly as you are doing it, but a lot of us are telling you that it is very easy to look at this behavior as hurtful, and your examples of the things she has done to hurt you are pretty limited. Mostly it just sounds like you don’t like her, which is fine, but it doesn’t mean she is the problem.

None of this shit matters if OP no longer wants to host her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of like SIL. I'm single with no kids and not much money. I live near my brother and his family. If they invite me for holidays, I go. If they don't, I am home alone. Am I sad that they're going to Mexico over Thanksgiving and going to meet my SIL's family there and nobody invited me? Yes. Will I complain to other family members about it? No. That's not my way. I'll just be a little sad by myself but mostly just fine, having the same kind of evening/weekend I normally have.

An honest question- why do you think you should or would be invited to join your SIL and her family for thanksgiving in Mexico?

I don't. It'd just be nice to have been invited, that's all.

But don’t you feel like a third wheel intruding on their vacation?

So little empathy these days. After my paternal grandmother died, my mothers family went out of their way to include my bachelor uncle in holiday dinners so he wouldn’t be alone. Did they have to? Of course not. But it costs nothing to be kind. Put yourself in someone else’s shoes and think about how you would feel. But apparently that’s asking too much of our self-centered culture these days.

It cost nothing to be kind, but it costs quite a bit to fly to Mexico and hang out there for a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are not a good SIL. She is family. You owe her a connection, no questions asked. You're dumping her over the holidays. That really, really sucks.

Oh look - the SIL is here. Family does not mean you get to insist on what everyone does for the holidays. It sounds like part of the problem is not her being there for the actual day of the holiday, it’s that she constantly overstays her welcome.

"Oh look" -- OK, PP, you can mock people with ease. Congrats. I am not the SIL and not in the SIL's position, either. Some people don't have to be exactly like someone else to care about them. Think about that for a while.

NP. I like how you are calling PP out for “mocking” by saying “Congrats” in a sarcastic manner. Practice what you preach—think about that for a while.

LOL "congrats"? Really? That's too harsh for you? F'off then. Is that better? Sure feels better.

-- Not SIL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are dh’s parents doing for the holidays?

Prob enforcing boundaries they’ve previously set around SIL’s freeloading ways

How do you define "freeloading"? I think my definition is very different....

(Also, did you even read what OP said about the dynamic between SIL and the parents?)

She doesn’t ask, she tells her brother and OP when she wants to show up. OP doesn’t make mention of SIL offering to grab pizza one night, or pick up bagels and juice for one breakfast (SIL has the cash to stay in a hotel so she’s not broke). SIL is also mooching off of her elderly parents for plane tickets.

1. Not asking has nothing to do with freeloading.
2. Correct, no specifics were offered about who pays for pizza or bagels. So that is not evidence for or against freeloading.
3. She may be "freeloading" off the parents, based on what OP "thinks" (but does not know). But clearly they are OK with it, which is proof that they are not "enforcing boundaries" around the sister.

Based on OP’s description I bet the parents are happy to pay for her flight so they don’t have Spinster Sis at their home for weeks at a time every holiday season.

Nasty. Being married doesn't smooth the rough edges of some people. At all. It's possible her parents love her because she's their child, and wouldn't love her any more or any less if she were married, divorced, never married, twice divorced, etc. It's sad you've never experienced a real family, PP.