Do you consider flirting cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh no, that's just being alive

But at a lower level of existence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh no, that's just being alive

But at a lower level of existence.

I guess I need to know what you define as flirting then. How does flirting cause someone to devolve?

[Anonymous]

What is the definition of “flirting” in this thread?

Flirting may consist of stylized gestures, language, body language, postures, and physiologic signs which act as cues to another person. Among these, at least in Western society, are:

Blowing a kiss
Casual touching; such as gently stroking, touching each other's arms, chest and neck during flirting/heavy, intimate make-out sessions in preparation for sexual activity[26]
Conversation (e.g. banter, small talk, pickup lines)[26]
Coyness, marked by cute, coquettish shyness or modesty, coquet or playful aggrandizement of a partner's importance
Eye contact,[26] batting eyelashes, or staring
Eyebrow raising
Flattery (e.g. regarding beauty, sexual attractiveness)
Footsie,[26] a form of flirtation in which one uses their feet to play with another's
Hugging
Imitating or mirroring another's behavior (e.g. taking a drink when the other person takes a drink, changing posture as the other does, foreshadowing or mimicking someone's reactions to successful attraction etc.)
Laughing, giggling, chuckling encouragingly at any slight hint of intimacy in the other's behavior
Maintaining close proximity, such as during casual talking
Nicknames and other terms of endearment to describe a partner's personality, beauty or sexiness
Chatting online, texting, and using other one-on-one and direct messaging services, while hinting affection
Protean signals or indicators of interest, such as touching one's hair, side-ways glance, and pointing one's chest towards partner's chest
Partner dancing
Writing love letters and notes, poems, or presenting small gifts
Singing specially selected love songs as a declaration of love and devotion in presence of one's partner
Smiling or grinning at partner and/or holding them close
Staging of "chance" encounters and romantic rendezvous
Sexting
Teasing
Tickling
Winking

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirting

You all would be ok with your spouse tickling another person in a fun and sexy way?

You’d be ok if your spouse left the house half and hour early to stage a chance encounter with an attractive person they’d noticed at their usual coffee shop?

Your spouse could play footsie under the table with that same attractive person whilst they enjoyed their coffee together?

[Anonymous]

You're either cheating or wasting someone's time. It depends on how you flirt. If you flirt with no intention of treating the person you're flirting with more romantic interest than any other member of the general public, you're leading him on. You're using him for an emotional rush of some sort. But you're not cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're either cheating or wasting someone's time. It depends on how you flirt. If you flirt with no intention of treating the person you're flirting with more romantic interest than any other member of the general public, you're leading him on. You're using him for an emotional rush of some sort. But you're not cheating.

This assumes the person you are “flirting” with doesn’t know you are married and is under the impression this will turn into a romantic or sexual situation. IMO people often flirt (as defined by smiling, laughing, trying to be charming/funny and general banter) with others they know and who know they are married and not interested in anything.

A big part of this is that I think flirting is defined very differently by different people. For me, harmless flirting would include banter and maybe a vibe of some sort but it’s not really one of those things that is concrete and measurable. I don’t think most people would be aggressively flirting to the point of sexual innuendos or giving out their number. To me, this would not be flirting it would be actively pursuing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the definition of “flirting” in this thread?

Flirting may consist of stylized gestures, language, body language, postures, and physiologic signs which act as cues to another person. Among these, at least in Western society, are:

Blowing a kiss
Casual touching; such as gently stroking, touching each other's arms, chest and neck during flirting/heavy, intimate make-out sessions in preparation for sexual activity[26]
Conversation (e.g. banter, small talk, pickup lines)[26]
Coyness, marked by cute, coquettish shyness or modesty, coquet or playful aggrandizement of a partner's importance
Eye contact,[26] batting eyelashes, or staring
Eyebrow raising
Flattery (e.g. regarding beauty, sexual attractiveness)
Footsie,[26] a form of flirtation in which one uses their feet to play with another's
Hugging
Imitating or mirroring another's behavior (e.g. taking a drink when the other person takes a drink, changing posture as the other does, foreshadowing or mimicking someone's reactions to successful attraction etc.)
Laughing, giggling, chuckling encouragingly at any slight hint of intimacy in the other's behavior
Maintaining close proximity, such as during casual talking
Nicknames and other terms of endearment to describe a partner's personality, beauty or sexiness
Chatting online, texting, and using other one-on-one and direct messaging services, while hinting affection
Protean signals or indicators of interest, such as touching one's hair, side-ways glance, and pointing one's chest towards partner's chest
Partner dancing
Writing love letters and notes, poems, or presenting small gifts
Singing specially selected love songs as a declaration of love and devotion in presence of one's partner
Smiling or grinning at partner and/or holding them close
Staging of "chance" encounters and romantic rendezvous
Sexting
Teasing
Tickling
Winking

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirting

You all would be ok with your spouse tickling another person in a fun and sexy way?

You’d be ok if your spouse left the house half and hour early to stage a chance encounter with an attractive person they’d noticed at their usual coffee shop?

Your spouse could play footsie under the table with that same attractive person whilst they enjoyed their coffee together?

Of course not. But eye contact, laughing, mirroring, and laughing? Completely fine with that. Love letters is also on that list- I don’t think anyone would characterize that as just “flirting”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I find the framing pretty interesting. Paraphrasing: “If someone takes it too far I just mention I’m married or my husband.” Why is the answer simply not “I’m not interested”?

It’s almost like the same women who will talk however they want to whoever they want lose all agency the moment they’re confronted with the conflict and instead rely on their relational status to a man to resolve the conflict.

The simple rule is the still the best. If you wouldn’t behave that way if your spouse was present then you shouldn’t do it just because your spouse isn’t there.

I think you are missing my point. I WOULD behave the same way if my husband was present. All I am doing engaging in conversation with smiling and laughing. If my husband is present, that makes it easier for men to understand I’m not available, but if he isn’t i bring it up. The answer is that it is nicer to me to mention my husband and continue having a conversation because it draws a boundary without rudely cutting someone off and saying “I’m not interested in you or conversation with you.”

This thread is right: men can’t handle rejection.

But there is a related point this response illustrates (and the one right after it): women can’t handle rejecting men.

A lot of the issues OP’s question gets at rest within the gray area of BOTH genders not being direct.

Related question, would it not be equally nice to others to never allow them the misunderstanding that you may be interested in the first place. I just don’t get the “I’ll talk to whoever I want however I want, but I would never be direct about my lack of interest and instead I’ll be nice by sending a signal that I’m married which doesn’t actually conclusively establish the point I’m trying to make.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I find the framing pretty interesting. Paraphrasing: “If someone takes it too far I just mention I’m married or my husband.” Why is the answer simply not “I’m not interested”?

It’s almost like the same women who will talk however they want to whoever they want lose all agency the moment they’re confronted with the conflict and instead rely on their relational status to a man to resolve the conflict.

The simple rule is the still the best. If you wouldn’t behave that way if your spouse was present then you shouldn’t do it just because your spouse isn’t there.

I find the idea that you want to control or judge others’ behavior and relationships interesting.

I’m guessing you’re single?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're either cheating or wasting someone's time. It depends on how you flirt. If you flirt with no intention of treating the person you're flirting with more romantic interest than any other member of the general public, you're leading him on. You're using him for an emotional rush of some sort. But you're not cheating.

This assumes the person you are “flirting” with doesn’t know you are married and is under the impression this will turn into a romantic or sexual situation. IMO people often flirt (as defined by smiling, laughing, trying to be charming/funny and general banter) with others they know and who know they are married and not interested in anything.

A big part of this is that I think flirting is defined very differently by different people. For me, harmless flirting would include banter and maybe a vibe of some sort but it’s not really one of those things that is concrete and measurable. I don’t think most people would be aggressively flirting to the point of sexual innuendos or giving out their number. To me, this would not be flirting it would be actively pursuing.

It also assumes the other person isn’t in the exact same situation - married or in a relationship with no intention of cheating or pursuing anything. And yes, there’s a huge difference between flirting as you and I define it and actually pursuing someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the concept of flirting is too subjective to call it cheating or disrespectful. I smile a lot. I’ve literally been told I was flirting with someone because I smiled. We didn’t even speak, and I smiled at everyone. If it’s smiling and banter, who cares? It’s not the 19th century. But then again I’ve been known to show my ankles, so I guess I’m a fast woman. Touching, dirty jokes with too much innuendo… that’s probably where the line is for us. Making out definitely crosses a line and is way too flirty.

^This absolutely this. I learned a long long time ago that men often mistake my being nice with flirting. For a while I stopped smiling and laughing and even talking to men. I now realize that if I am nice to them and they mistake it for flirting that isn’t my problem. I never use innuendo and bring up my husband during these conversations, and have clear boundaries with any touching (even elbow touching or whatever). But i should be able to smile and laugh and hold a conversation.

Here’s the thing, at home with his wife who is overburdened as we all know with childcare and a whole host of mental tasks. She at times is not so demure and shy at this stage bc shit has to get done. Enter you, a “sweet” talking “shy” and “nice” female laughing and bantering with him. As the wife, mom, I feel disrespected if he banters and back with you and gives you attention. He might be having a few moments of emotional lightness with you but he really should be focused on helping and giving his wife and mom to his children all of the attention and fun times. Not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I find the framing pretty interesting. Paraphrasing: “If someone takes it too far I just mention I’m married or my husband.” Why is the answer simply not “I’m not interested”?

It’s almost like the same women who will talk however they want to whoever they want lose all agency the moment they’re confronted with the conflict and instead rely on their relational status to a man to resolve the conflict.

The simple rule is the still the best. If you wouldn’t behave that way if your spouse was present then you shouldn’t do it just because your spouse isn’t there.

I find the idea that you want to control or judge others’ behavior and relationships interesting.

I’m guessing you’re single?

This is a message board. Everybody is here to judge or opine.

Where do you take it that I want to control anything?

Happily married for twenty+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the concept of flirting is too subjective to call it cheating or disrespectful. I smile a lot. I’ve literally been told I was flirting with someone because I smiled. We didn’t even speak, and I smiled at everyone. If it’s smiling and banter, who cares? It’s not the 19th century. But then again I’ve been known to show my ankles, so I guess I’m a fast woman. Touching, dirty jokes with too much innuendo… that’s probably where the line is for us. Making out definitely crosses a line and is way too flirty.

^This absolutely this. I learned a long long time ago that men often mistake my being nice with flirting. For a while I stopped smiling and laughing and even talking to men. I now realize that if I am nice to them and they mistake it for flirting that isn’t my problem. I never use innuendo and bring up my husband during these conversations, and have clear boundaries with any touching (even elbow touching or whatever). But i should be able to smile and laugh and hold a conversation.

Here’s the thing, at home with his wife who is overburdened as we all know with childcare and a whole host of mental tasks. She at times is not so demure and shy at this stage bc shit has to get done. Enter you, a “sweet” talking “shy” and “nice” female laughing and bantering with him. As the wife, mom, I feel disrespected if he banters and back with you and gives you attention. He might be having a few moments of emotional lightness with you but he really should be focused on helping and giving his wife and mom to his children all of the attention and fun times. Not you.

Your husband must give his wife and children all his attention and all the fun times? He’s not allowed to have any fun with others, or focus any attention on anyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I find the framing pretty interesting. Paraphrasing: “If someone takes it too far I just mention I’m married or my husband.” Why is the answer simply not “I’m not interested”?

It’s almost like the same women who will talk however they want to whoever they want lose all agency the moment they’re confronted with the conflict and instead rely on their relational status to a man to resolve the conflict.

The simple rule is the still the best. If you wouldn’t behave that way if your spouse was present then you shouldn’t do it just because your spouse isn’t there.

I find the idea that you want to control or judge others’ behavior and relationships interesting.

I’m guessing you’re single?

This is a message board. Everybody is here to judge or opine.

Where do you take it that I want to control anything?

Happily married for twenty+ years.

Okay. I stand corrected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I find the framing pretty interesting. Paraphrasing: “If someone takes it too far I just mention I’m married or my husband.” Why is the answer simply not “I’m not interested”?

It’s almost like the same women who will talk however they want to whoever they want lose all agency the moment they’re confronted with the conflict and instead rely on their relational status to a man to resolve the conflict.

The simple rule is the still the best. If you wouldn’t behave that way if your spouse was present then you shouldn’t do it just because your spouse isn’t there.

I think you are missing my point. I WOULD behave the same way if my husband was present. All I am doing engaging in conversation with smiling and laughing. If my husband is present, that makes it easier for men to understand I’m not available, but if he isn’t i bring it up. The answer is that it is nicer to me to mention my husband and continue having a conversation because it draws a boundary without rudely cutting someone off and saying “I’m not interested in you or conversation with you.”

This thread is right: men can’t handle rejection.

But there is a related point this response illustrates (and the one right after it): women can’t handle rejecting men.

A lot of the issues OP’s question gets at rest within the gray area of BOTH genders not being direct.

Related question, would it not be equally nice to others to never allow them the misunderstanding that you may be interested in the first place. I just don’t get the “I’ll talk to whoever I want however I want, but I would never be direct about my lack of interest and instead I’ll be nice by sending a signal that I’m married which doesn’t actually conclusively establish the point I’m trying to make.”

I don’t think it’s an issue so much of “women can’t handle rejecting men” as much as it is “women fear angry men’s reactions and sense of entitlement to women’s bodies and affections.” It’s impossible to guess which man is going to retaliate when they’re rejected. Letting men down easily tends to be a safer course of action.

Case in point: the concept of needing to reject someone after flirting with them. Flirting means absolutely nothing, so the idea tha a man thinks he has some claim that I’d need to reject after a little flirting with someone who happened to be sitting near me at a bar over the course of a drink or two is ludicrous. If I flirt with someone while having a drink and they act like I own them more of my time or conversation just because we happened to sit near each other in a public place, my instinct is to get away safely. That doesn’t usually include direct confrontation; saying I’m off the market let’s him know to stop without challenging his manhood. After being in a situation where a man feels like he deserves more, it’s pretty easy to understand why many women choose that as their default setting. If you’ve never experienced it or have found a better way to handle it (other than social isolation), good for you. Consider yourself lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the concept of flirting is too subjective to call it cheating or disrespectful. I smile a lot. I’ve literally been told I was flirting with someone because I smiled. We didn’t even speak, and I smiled at everyone. If it’s smiling and banter, who cares? It’s not the 19th century. But then again I’ve been known to show my ankles, so I guess I’m a fast woman. Touching, dirty jokes with too much innuendo… that’s probably where the line is for us. Making out definitely crosses a line and is way too flirty.

^This absolutely this. I learned a long long time ago that men often mistake my being nice with flirting. For a while I stopped smiling and laughing and even talking to men. I now realize that if I am nice to them and they mistake it for flirting that isn’t my problem. I never use innuendo and bring up my husband during these conversations, and have clear boundaries with any touching (even elbow touching or whatever). But i should be able to smile and laugh and hold a conversation.

Here’s the thing, at home with his wife who is overburdened as we all know with childcare and a whole host of mental tasks. She at times is not so demure and shy at this stage bc shit has to get done. Enter you, a “sweet” talking “shy” and “nice” female laughing and bantering with him. As the wife, mom, I feel disrespected if he banters and back with you and gives you attention. He might be having a few moments of emotional lightness with you but he really should be focused on helping and giving his wife and mom to his children all of the attention and fun times. Not you.

NP. That’s fair but unless the woman knows that, it’s not incumbent upon her to change her behavior. That’s an issue with your husband. (And I do hope this is hypothetical, I’d be really hurt in your shoes if it’s not)