Letting go of making sure they die in the safest way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a lot of old guys are hoping to ski or hike until they die of Dutch Elm Disease, and at a certain point the way you can love a person is to respect their choices made of sound mind. With my FIL I guess some day he won't come back from his hike and we'll have to send someone with an ATV after him, and that will be that.

This is me, except female. I will probably die falling off my horse when I’m in my 80s. Or scuba diving with sharks, or God knows what.

I am just a tough old broad, and I am proud of that mental toughness. Hell, I was slinging hay bales for a week after I broke my arm badly, before I could get in for surgery. I could feel the bones grinding together but darn it, I was not going to let anyone help me.

There’s nothing wrong with it, even if you have a different perspective on risk/reward.

So, if you continue to insist that you’re not going to let anyone help you, then you may have Adult Protective Services at your door one day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

You aren’t allowed to kill them, but you could dress her up in warm clothes, take her to the top of tge mountain, strap on some skiis, and push her down. I am going to pay someone to do this for me when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a lot of old guys are hoping to ski or hike until they die of Dutch Elm Disease, and at a certain point the way you can love a person is to respect their choices made of sound mind. With my FIL I guess some day he won't come back from his hike and we'll have to send someone with an ATV after him, and that will be that.

This is me, except female. I will probably die falling off my horse when I’m in my 80s. Or scuba diving with sharks, or God knows what.

I am just a tough old broad, and I am proud of that mental toughness. Hell, I was slinging hay bales for a week after I broke my arm badly, before I could get in for surgery. I could feel the bones grinding together but darn it, I was not going to let anyone help me.

There’s nothing wrong with it, even if you have a different perspective on risk/reward.

So, if you continue to insist that you’re not going to let anyone help you, then you may have Adult Protective Services at your door one day.

I LOLed at this. Have you ever tried to get APS to help? they are useless. They cannot force an old person to get proper care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

You aren’t allowed to kill them, but you could dress her up in warm clothes, take her to the top of tge mountain, strap on some skiis, and push her down. I am going to pay someone to do this for me when the time comes.

Yes, and with some bad luck you live and the person you gave poa too decides she cannot bear to say goodbye so you are hooked up to tubes tossing turning as you grab them off and she hires someone to make sure you stay hooked up. Then hospice tries to knock some sense into her and she refuses to listen. People can be crazy when it comes to letting someone die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

You aren’t allowed to kill them, but you could dress her up in warm clothes, take her to the top of tge mountain, strap on some skiis, and push her down. I am going to pay someone to do this for me when the time comes.

Posting again to say, pretty sure the person would end up in jail and this isn't legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

You aren’t allowed to kill them, but you could dress her up in warm clothes, take her to the top of tge mountain, strap on some skiis, and push her down. I am going to pay someone to do this for me when the time comes.

So this post started as compassionate advice for people dealing with caregiver burnout and turned into elder abuse/homicide. Cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes OP - one thousand times YES.

My teenagers and I were living with my elderly mother, and while she said she wanted and needed my help, she refused to take care of herself and constantly put herself in harms way. She drank 2-3 glasses of wine a night against doctor's orders b/c of meds, literally climbed ladders to fix things, refused to use her cane, refused to wear a mask. refused her medication. I was POA and she was showing signs of dementia, was a fall risk (fell several tines resulting in broken bones, but would deny falling), and refused to accept any boundaries I tried to set for me or my teenagers. It was the worst period of my adult life and I very nearly had a nervous breakdown. She agreed to move into AL (she could well afford it), I helped her find a lovely place she liked,. But within the first month she stopped speaking to me and demonized me for "putting her away."


Long story short, she cut off all communication with us, and convinced many of our extended family that we were out to get her. Her efforts worked - many of our family has cut contact with us. But now my kids and I are much happier and healthier living on our own, doing lots of therapy, and frankly not worrying about my mother any longer.

She decided to stay in the AL home. We moved to a new place in a neighborhood better suited to our needs and lifestyle. And I'm so glad not to be responsible for her care and wellbeing. It was a thankless, horrible job.

So yeah, I should've done what's best for me and my kids years ago.

Fellow unappreciated daughter here. I have found there is freedom in my mom trashing me to all her family and friends after I bent over backwards for her for so many years and was miserable and having health issues.It helped strangle the people-pleaser in me and it made me realize nothing I did would be enough so I might as well do much less.

I honestly at this point wish she would cut me off and stop taking to me because then I could happily follow her wishes. When her behavior was really awful at one point I announced to her I would be taking a break from her for a week because I could not take the yelling and insults and I needed to focus more on my family I created. She said "How about a month?!" in rage as though it was a punishment. I gleefully said "sure." In that month so many aches and pains vanished. I actually slept better and woke in the morning with a sense of hope. She tried to reach out to me before the month was over as though she was doing me a favor, and I informed her we had 2 more weeks.

I fully expect mom to accuse me of stealing in the future and to lash out physically at me because that is what grandma eventually did with my aunt, while my mom did little and was the Golden Child. At that point I will step away completely.

GOOD JOB! And I mean that sincerely! The benefit of losing the people-pleaser mentality is you get your life back!!! Much love, PP. My Aunt referred to her caregiver as her slave two weeks ago to a friend of hers. Ummm. No. That did it for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Really common, and much more horrible than people who haven't been through it can imagine.

I drew the line at my mother putting other people at risk of losing their lives, given that they hadn't agreed to this. Fir me, that's when you are in an apartment building or other connected space, and you are habitually causing fire risks by leaving the burners on, or smoking cigarettes at the same time you are on supplemental oxygen and falling asleep with the tank just a foot or two away.

I loved her. I tried to be there and not change her, since she wasn't going to change. But I got rid of the cigarettes and kept getting rid of them, and I had the gas shut off to the apartment. It was the best I could do.

My big shame is that her death brought this intense waive of relief -- whatever I had done wrong or decided poorly, there were now no mistakes left to make. It was over. And I wasn't glad she was dead, but I was so incredibly glad that I couldn't get more wrong anymore.

Bless you PP. People do NOT understand how hard this is unless they have been through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

YES!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this thread, OP. I posted recently about when to go to AL, and have toured a couple of places. One of my brothers was supposed to talk with her about finances and legal stuff so we all would know her financials and wishes. For whatever reason he wasn't able to connect with her so I stopped by on Sunday after touring a place near her. I had The Conversation about falling, and we want to keep her safe, how much money do you have in savings etc etc. Not a fun conversation but it needed to be done and I was tired of waiting for my brother to do it. On my way to her place, I remembered this thread, and how sometimes you just have to let go of having them die in the safest way possible and let them make their choices. So--I told my mom the decision was hers to make and we'd all respect that (and told my siblings the same--that as long as she's not suffering from dementia, we need to respect whatever she decides.)

I told her that her living alone is a risk, that she's at risk of falling and being on the floor for 17 hours again, she's at risk of breaking another bone etc but if she's willing to assume that risk and is OK with it, then we are too. I told her some of the advantages of the AL places--someone will check on her every few hours, still has her own apartment, has someone to stand by while she showers, has showers instead of tubs, etc. I don't know what she'll decide, but I want to thank you for raising this topic. It was very timely for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Really common, and much more horrible than people who haven't been through it can imagine.

I drew the line at my mother putting other people at risk of losing their lives, given that they hadn't agreed to this. Fir me, that's when you are in an apartment building or other connected space, and you are habitually causing fire risks by leaving the burners on, or smoking cigarettes at the same time you are on supplemental oxygen and falling asleep with the tank just a foot or two away.

I loved her. I tried to be there and not change her, since she wasn't going to change. But I got rid of the cigarettes and kept getting rid of them, and I had the gas shut off to the apartment. It was the best I could do.

My big shame is that her death brought this intense waive of relief -- whatever I had done wrong or decided poorly, there were now no mistakes left to make. It was over. And I wasn't glad she was dead, but I was so incredibly glad that I couldn't get more wrong anymore.

Bless you PP. People do NOT understand how hard this is unless they have been through it.

Thank you so much. I know you understand, and same to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here with “well I’ll just go to sleep dad.” — Hypothermia.

In bed? With blankets? Doubtful.

Yes what do people think people did before central heating, hot water bottles were a thing for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggled with this for years until the one specialised nurse pulled me aside in the drive way one day. She knew I was wrecking myself trying to keep things safe and right. She told me it was determined that Mom was cognitive enough to make her own choices. While they are not safe choices or the ones most would make, for now at least she gets to make them. I think she was the only one ever who implied this mess was not my fault or responsibility. While dozens of others constantly breathed down my neck that I needed to do more or better.

I can’t stress the bolded enough! I was just told the same thing. I DID feel it was my fault and my responsibility.

That nurse is a Godsend and the people who blame the adult children need to step in and try it out for a bit. I am so sick of people thinking I have a magic wand. I am so glad there are angels out there who get it and supported you both.

I am so fortunate that I have a sister who lived with my parents (with her family in a separate apartment) and took care of them during cancer bouts and general aging. Although I voiced my opinion at times, I made it clear that it was her decision on what to do since she is the one that would be dealing with the outcome. She's also a nurse so it made sense for her to deal with the medical issues. I helped when I could (I live 4 hours away) by going down for a week at a time if needed. My father has passed and my mother is pretty easy going and is now in assisted living although she may soon need a nursing home. I am so grateful for what my sister has done and continues to do. My mother has even helped her monetarily at times and has asked the other 5 siblings if that bothered them. I just say I don't know how much money it would have cost to have someone do what my sister did, and there is no way that it would have been done as lovingly. That is priceless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean yes, lots of people say they will go out doing something active. But you’re not in control as much as you’d think. It pains me so much to see my MIL repeatedly tell my husband that she’d rather die than have someone help her with bathing or dressing, or go to AL. Sure, she’d rather die, but guess what — her children aren’t allowed to just kill her. What you’d “rather” really isn’t relevant unless you actually plan to take your own life while still of sound body and mind.

You aren’t allowed to kill them, but you could dress her up in warm clothes, take her to the top of tge mountain, strap on some skiis, and push her down. I am going to pay someone to do this for me when the time comes.

Yes, and with some bad luck you live and the person you gave poa too decides she cannot bear to say goodbye so you are hooked up to tubes tossing turning as you grab them off and she hires someone to make sure you stay hooked up. Then hospice tries to knock some sense into her and she refuses to listen. People can be crazy when it comes to letting someone die.

Really agree with that last sentence. I see myself as someone rational, well educated, and respectful of someone's wishes. Really had to tap my inner inner core and remind myself that prolonging my dad's life when he had stopped eating was for me, not for him. Fortunately all of my siblings were able to come to the same decision so there was no conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kind of goes for kids as well...I have a child who refuses treatment for a treatable condition....I cannot save that child from himself.....And I have tried.....

I’m so sorry to hear this. I work with young adults who struggle with heroin addictions, and what the OP wrote reminds me so much of the conversations I have had with their parents.