Friends who cannot seem to get away - what gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like women who call other moms "martyrs" because they won't do very specific social things - dinner out! girls night at the club! weekends in vegas! - are not all that different from frat guy who can't let the lifestyle go when they become husbands/fathers. There is more than one way to socialize and have a friendship. If you insist on doing an evening dinner, you're the one being inflexible and "clinging to a routine."

Found a martyr.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For me - if I’m already away from my kids for work, it’s hard to take even more time away otherwise.

I get that -- but once every few weeks?

I’m not sure how old your friends’ kids are. Of course it got easier as my kids got older. This is the infant & toddlers board, and yes, it was hard for me then. If they work and then are gone 6-10 they’re giving up most of their time with their child that day.

If your infant or toddler is up at 8 pm,. other than for a brief wake, feed and change, you should rethink your schedule.

My kids are 12, 9, and 6 now but thanks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because way too many women these days are mommy martyrs and no longer have an identity outside of motherhood. It's sad.

Why does going out to dinner with a friend have to be part of your identity? Because all the Sex and the City girls are always going out together so every woman has to do that?

No -- I think the point the poster was (admittedly, inelegantly) trying to make is that many moms make themselves out to be more frazzled than they really are, like dinner/bedtime is some kind of circus. Unless your toddler/infant is destroying the house, shrieking, and lighting fires in the playroom, what can't be handled by one person for one night while you nourish an adult friendship?

Why can't I "nourish an adult friendship" in a way that's convenient for me and is actually restorative and fun? Brunch, coffee, happy hour - those all sound fun to me. A dinner out because that's what my friend is insisting we do? No, that's not "nourishing" to me. That's a demanding friend who is sapping my energy.

The original post wasn't about dinner - it just said "evening," which I assume includes happy hour.

OP wants people to skip their kids dinner, bath, and bedtime to hang out with her. I can do happy hour at 5 and be home for bath and bedtime. I don't think that's what OP is talking about.

But...why can't you skip dinner once in a blue moon? What is happening at toddler dinnertime that's pivotal? I know plenty of mothers of young kids who eat out with friends every so often.

Omg, read the rest of the thread. This whole thread is women stating very precisely why they do not want to go out for dinner.

[Anonymous]

I know 3 women like this

1. Has not gone out without her child since she was born 2 years ago. No date nights, no friend get togethers without kids. Her marriage is strained and quite a few of us are worried about her mental health. But she's very dismissive and angry when we bring up our concerns.

2. Has control issues. She complains that her husband can't handle it but based off her examples he does stuff differently, not less than

3. Husband is a complete loaf and its not worth the effort required to leave him with the kids. He sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Because way too many women these days are mommy martyrs and no longer have an identity outside of motherhood. It's sad.

Why does going out to dinner with a friend have to be part of your identity? Because all the Sex and the City girls are always going out together so every woman has to do that?

No -- I think the point the poster was (admittedly, inelegantly) trying to make is that many moms make themselves out to be more frazzled than they really are, like dinner/bedtime is some kind of circus. Unless your toddler/infant is destroying the house, shrieking, and lighting fires in the playroom, what can't be handled by one person for one night while you nourish an adult friendship?

Why can't I "nourish an adult friendship" in a way that's convenient for me and is actually restorative and fun? Brunch, coffee, happy hour - those all sound fun to me. A dinner out because that's what my friend is insisting we do? No, that's not "nourishing" to me. That's a demanding friend who is sapping my energy.

The original post wasn't about dinner - it just said "evening," which I assume includes happy hour.

OP wants people to skip their kids dinner, bath, and bedtime to hang out with her. I can do happy hour at 5 and be home for bath and bedtime. I don't think that's what OP is talking about.

But...why can't you skip dinner once in a blue moon? What is happening at toddler dinnertime that's pivotal? I know plenty of mothers of young kids who eat out with friends every so often.

DP. I have plenty of friends - but a lot of them are the ones I ended up getting closer to are the that want to hang out with our kids at the same time too. I actually thought OP had no kids before she clarified.

[Anonymous]

For those of you turning down invitations to go out at night, consider that if you keep saying no people will stop inviting you. Consider whether you want to maintain the friendship. If you do, try to say yes sometimes. Also keep in mind that as your kids enter elementary they will start having activities that make getting together on weekends very difficult. If you want to see certain friends a Thursday night dinner may be your only option.

I can’t relate at all to people who don’t ever want to go out. This board seems to skew toward homebody/introvert types. I am not out partying every night but a couple times per month is a great way to stay connected with friends. And I have to laugh at the posters saying it’s not fair to their husband to leave them alone with a couple kids. What do you think single parents or military spouses do? Some parents make bedtime out to be some crazy complicated process that requires two people. It really doesn’t when it comes down to it. You are making it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because way too many women these days are mommy martyrs and no longer have an identity outside of motherhood. It's sad.

Why does going out to dinner with a friend have to be part of your identity? Because all the Sex and the City girls are always going out together so every woman has to do that?

No -- I think the point the poster was (admittedly, inelegantly) trying to make is that many moms make themselves out to be more frazzled than they really are, like dinner/bedtime is some kind of circus. Unless your toddler/infant is destroying the house, shrieking, and lighting fires in the playroom, what can't be handled by one person for one night while you nourish an adult friendship?

Why can't I "nourish an adult friendship" in a way that's convenient for me and is actually restorative and fun? Brunch, coffee, happy hour - those all sound fun to me. A dinner out because that's what my friend is insisting we do? No, that's not "nourishing" to me. That's a demanding friend who is sapping my energy.

The original post wasn't about dinner - it just said "evening," which I assume includes happy hour.

OP wants people to skip their kids dinner, bath, and bedtime to hang out with her. I can do happy hour at 5 and be home for bath and bedtime. I don't think that's what OP is talking about.

But...why can't you skip dinner once in a blue moon? What is happening at toddler dinnertime that's pivotal? I know plenty of mothers of young kids who eat out with friends every so often.

Is this on a work or school night? Maybe they are TIRED. Maybe dinner is far away. Maybe the husband can deal with it all, but he gets home at 6:30, and she'd have to leave at 6 to make the reservation. Dealing with logistics for four people is harder than for one. Doesnt mean it's impossible, but does mean that what is convenient for you might not be for someone else.

And if it's a weekend, not the same issues, but we all only get two weekend days and they fill up fairly far in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you turning down invitations to go out at night, consider that if you keep saying no people will stop inviting you. Consider whether you want to maintain the friendship. If you do, try to say yes sometimes. Also keep in mind that as your kids enter elementary they will start having activities that make getting together on weekends very difficult. If you want to see certain friends a Thursday night dinner may be your only option.

I can’t relate at all to people who don’t ever want to go out. This board seems to skew toward homebody/introvert types. I am not out partying every night but a couple times per month is a great way to stay connected with friends. And I have to laugh at the posters saying it’s not fair to their husband to leave them alone with a couple kids. What do you think single parents or military spouses do? Some parents make bedtime out to be some crazy complicated process that requires two people. It really doesn’t when it comes down to it. You are making it that way.

I do understand that for what it’s worth. I accept that I can’t be all things to all people. I can’t always go out. I work, I’m tired, I have 3 kids. I can’t go out enough for some people - and that’s fine. I hope they find other friends who want to go out as much. I understand theyll naturally become closer. Tonight my friend invited my whole family & our other friend’s whole family over for dinner. We all have 3 kids and we will hang from 6:30-8:30. I will naturally end up being closer to those people and that’s fine. I think that’s part of growing up. Im not mad. I’ve just accepted who I am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know 3 women like this

1. Has not gone out without her child since she was born 2 years ago. No date nights, no friend get togethers without kids. Her marriage is strained and quite a few of us are worried about her mental health. But she's very dismissive and angry when we bring up our concerns.

2. Has control issues. She complains that her husband can't handle it but based off her examples he does stuff differently, not less than

3. Husband is a complete loaf and its not worth the effort required to leave him with the kids. He sucks.

To be fair, I have a kid turning 2 this month, and it's been a pandemic for most of his life (and I wasn't going out the first 3-4 months postpartum because have mercy). For #1, we've only started doing those things in summer 2021, and we still don't eat indoors.

#2 and 3 stink, but it's not like this has been a great year for travel and get togethers at night with friends.

[Anonymous]

My kids are 6 months, 2 years, and 4. I’m really tired at night and getting dressed up and going out is an energy suck. I want to put on my pajamas and read a book in bed. I don’t get a lot of time to myself and getting some peace and quiet at night is important to me.

[Anonymous]

Could be any number of things:

1. Anxiety - for me, I had post-partum anxiety that made me irrationally afraid that no one else could take care of kid. Took a while to realize it because I had no history of anxiety, no depression symptoms. Had never heard of PPA, only PPD. One I got treatment, got so much better.

2. They're just exhausted and don't want to.

3. Husband may in fact be useless, or nervous about being alone with kids, or simply an unhelpful jerk.

4. Child may be extremely high-maintenance, such that deviating from routine not worth it for a dinner. For example, I had one kid who would sleep anywhere, super easy going, etc. Another that would only sleep in her crib, no matter what. Didn't take too long to learn that very few things were worth screwing with naptime or bedtime for that one - we would literally be paying for days.

And so on . . . The little kid stage is really hard and exhausting and draining. And it's not just the parents' personalities but the kids' personalities and how they mesh that matters. Some teams make it look easy, some can't get it together to save their lives, and most fall somewhere on a spectrum in between.

[Anonymous]

I think this board does skew toward introverts.

Maybe it's tiring for YOU to meet at night, but think about what your friend needs. Maybe it's convenient for THEM and they need it. Friendship is about compromise.

[Anonymous]

My kids are older now, so it’s no longer an issue, but I remember back in the day it was a combination of fatigue and inertia. Once I got home for the day, I was usually home. Meeting for HH was hard because I did pick up, and also, I had little interest in going for drinks and THEN having to do the dinner and bedtime routine. So, it wasn’t that I couldn’t, it’s that it wasn’t a priority.

The friends I really wanted to see either understood or were amenable to other plans. Those friendships are still strong and I’ve made new ones with women whose kids are similar ages or who are able to get out once a month or two for this kind of thing. Different people have different needs; it’s usually not personal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you turning down invitations to go out at night, consider that if you keep saying no people will stop inviting you. Consider whether you want to maintain the friendship. If you do, try to say yes sometimes. Also keep in mind that as your kids enter elementary they will start having activities that make getting together on weekends very difficult. If you want to see certain friends a Thursday night dinner may be your only option.

I can’t relate at all to people who don’t ever want to go out. This board seems to skew toward homebody/introvert types. I am not out partying every night but a couple times per month is a great way to stay connected with friends. And I have to laugh at the posters saying it’s not fair to their husband to leave them alone with a couple kids. What do you think single parents or military spouses do? Some parents make bedtime out to be some crazy complicated process that requires two people. It really doesn’t when it comes down to it. You are making it that way.

This. It's fine to deprioritize your friends for family, but then they will deprioritize you as well. Don't expect to surface in a couple of years and have all your previous friends excitedly awaiting your return to humanity with open arms. They'll have moved on to other friends that made time for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are 6 months, 2 years, and 4. I’m really tired at night and getting dressed up and going out is an energy suck. I want to put on my pajamas and read a book in bed. I don’t get a lot of time to myself and getting some peace and quiet at night is important to me.

I wear PJ pants to meet up with friends, I don't dress up!