Are There Any Red Flags Here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP just reading this is huge red flags. She is 11. Most 11 years olds "work out" by being involved in sports, biking the neighborhood, going on hikes with their families, dog walks, etc. Your daughter is by herself watching youtube workout videos. That alone is a red flag. She is well on her way to disordered eating at a young age. The whole baking something that is long, complicated and aesthetically pleasing can be a sign of an eating disorder. The cutting out types of food IS a sign. So while she may never get to full flown eating disorder she is on her way to a terrible relationship with food and most importantly her body. Nip this in the bud now!

She is involved in a sport (diving), which is not exactly exercise intensive, and she had to start it, because her injury prevents her from doing what she has done for years (and I think that the kind of work she has to do for diving is helping with her injury). She used to do martial arts, but had to stop because of her injury. She has limitations on the type of exercise she can do because of her injury, and bad feet. So for instance, hiking/dog walks are difficult. She loves to bike and swim, both of which she does for fun, but those are weekend activities. She is not watching YouTube workout videos by herself, I help her choose appropriate workouts, because I want to be sure that it is someone that pays attention to form, so she does not hurt herself.

I am curious about the bolded. We both enjoy baking, and as a general rule, we don't just make simple cakes or cookies (except banana bread; that's a staple, to keep bananas from going bad). For instance, for Christmas, we baked and decorated a yule log - sponge cake, whipped cream filling, ganache covering, chocolate bark for decorations, meringue mushrooms, sugared cranberries and rosemary, etc. So what she chooses to bake are things that often have multiple components, or interesting technique. She loves to decorate especially (artsy kid), and eats what we bake.

None of that is alarming because she isn't afraid to eat it, and there are no signs she purges it. Sure, keep an eye on things, but my goodness people on here are overboard. Let's see we have a normal weight child interest in health who like most girls and many boys cares about her appearance too. She wants to avoid table sugar, but eats a well rounded healthy diet. She does enjoy baking elaborate things, but will eat what she makes in a reasonable portion-not binging, not restricting. She exercises daily, but *gasp* has not chosen a DCUM approved form of exercise, but if you take out video and add oh I don't know volleyball on a team, you may get DCUM approval. Sorry, but this thread has gone off the rails. In a world where our kids are likely to have a lower life expectancy than we have due to being sedentary and eating crap, DCUMers are ready to send a kid to early intervention for making healthy choices and actually confessing that she like most tween girls cares about looking good too.

[Anonymous]

OP, no 11 yr old should be this fastidious about food and working out. It's definitely not normal. I started dieting/food obsession/exercise obsession around 11, too. It turned into binge eating disorder around 15 and then full on bulimia at 19. That lasted 17 years. You need to get her help. Now.

[Anonymous]

JFC, OP, please go back and reread this thread. You are trying to talk yourself out of reality, which is that your daughter has, if not a full blown eating disorder, at least a very, very strong tendency towards that type of eating/thinking. NO 11 YEAR OLD SHOULD BE THIS CONSUMED BY RULES AROUND EATING. Many of us on this thread are either in recovery from an eating disorder or know someone who is. If you do not address an eating disorder early, it will become a lifelong problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP just reading this is huge red flags. She is 11. Most 11 years olds "work out" by being involved in sports, biking the neighborhood, going on hikes with their families, dog walks, etc. Your daughter is by herself watching youtube workout videos. That alone is a red flag. She is well on her way to disordered eating at a young age. The whole baking something that is long, complicated and aesthetically pleasing can be a sign of an eating disorder. The cutting out types of food IS a sign. So while she may never get to full flown eating disorder she is on her way to a terrible relationship with food and most importantly her body. Nip this in the bud now!

She is involved in a sport (diving), which is not exactly exercise intensive, and she had to start it, because her injury prevents her from doing what she has done for years (and I think that the kind of work she has to do for diving is helping with her injury). She used to do martial arts, but had to stop because of her injury. She has limitations on the type of exercise she can do because of her injury, and bad feet. So for instance, hiking/dog walks are difficult. She loves to bike and swim, both of which she does for fun, but those are weekend activities. She is not watching YouTube workout videos by herself, I help her choose appropriate workouts, because I want to be sure that it is someone that pays attention to form, so she does not hurt herself.

I am curious about the bolded. We both enjoy baking, and as a general rule, we don't just make simple cakes or cookies (except banana bread; that's a staple, to keep bananas from going bad). For instance, for Christmas, we baked and decorated a yule log - sponge cake, whipped cream filling, ganache covering, chocolate bark for decorations, meringue mushrooms, sugared cranberries and rosemary, etc. So what she chooses to bake are things that often have multiple components, or interesting technique. She loves to decorate especially (artsy kid), and eats what we bake.

None of that is alarming because she isn't afraid to eat it, and there are no signs she purges it. Sure, keep an eye on things, but my goodness people on here are overboard. Let's see we have a normal weight child interest in health who like most girls and many boys cares about her appearance too. She wants to avoid table sugar, but eats a well rounded healthy diet. She does enjoy baking elaborate things, but will eat what she makes in a reasonable portion-not binging, not restricting. She exercises daily, but *gasp* has not chosen a DCUM approved form of exercise, but if you take out video and add oh I don't know volleyball on a team, you may get DCUM approval. Sorry, but this thread has gone off the rails. In a world where our kids are likely to have a lower life expectancy than we have due to being sedentary and eating crap, DCUMers are ready to send a kid to early intervention for making healthy choices and actually confessing that she like most tween girls cares about looking good too.

OP is asking for opinions, and people are giving their opinions based on their experiences. Many posters have even shared that they were like OP's daughter at that age.

You can give your own opinion without being snarky.

if you are a therapist or in any profession that deals with children/adult with eating disorders, give OP concrete resources instead of trying to downplay other people's experiences. Nothing in your response shows that your opinion is more valuable than the others, so give it respectfully or back it up with something concrete instead of being dismissive.

[Anonymous]

OP I think the issue with all the conflicting posts is it's sort of like when someone with genetic wiring for alcoholism first tries alcohol vs. someone who is not as at risk. Alcohol isn't bad in moderation and has health benefits. However, many alcoholics will tell you the first sip sometimes was the start of the slip into hell. Many people can get excited about healthy eating and exercise and decrease processed food and avoid sugar without it turning into an eating disorder ever. The problem is for some it was the start. There is a lot of interesting research on what genetic factors put people more at risk. I believe the people who say for them it was a red flag. I also believe the people who like myself have always been within the normal range and who even in middle age are quite healthy, but still envy those people who can eat anything. I am compulsive with my exercise for both health reasons and because I like how I look fit. I am adamant about healthy low to no processed whole foods eating because I feel fantastic when I do it, I enjoy being in good health and I like how I look. One person's healthy drink to keep up cardiovascular health and unwind on a weekend is another person's descent into alcoholism. Look up the research. It sounds like you have no family history that you know of with EDs which is good as well, but there is a lot of shame for some so you may not know.

[Anonymous]

OP, I applaud you for staying on this thread and thinking more about your daughter. You clearly care deeply about her. I said this upthread, but therapists are in high demand these days so it would not hurt to make a few calls/emails to set up an appt. I know lots of kids (including mine) who were perfectly happy but have been struggling with the fall out from 18 months of zoom school + onset of puberty + advent of middle school.

A licensed therapist will tell you where you need to go from here. It could be nothing, or it could not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP just reading this is huge red flags. She is 11. Most 11 years olds "work out" by being involved in sports, biking the neighborhood, going on hikes with their families, dog walks, etc. Your daughter is by herself watching youtube workout videos. That alone is a red flag. She is well on her way to disordered eating at a young age. The whole baking something that is long, complicated and aesthetically pleasing can be a sign of an eating disorder. The cutting out types of food IS a sign. So while she may never get to full flown eating disorder she is on her way to a terrible relationship with food and most importantly her body. Nip this in the bud now!

She is involved in a sport (diving), which is not exactly exercise intensive, and she had to start it, because her injury prevents her from doing what she has done for years (and I think that the kind of work she has to do for diving is helping with her injury). She used to do martial arts, but had to stop because of her injury. She has limitations on the type of exercise she can do because of her injury, and bad feet. So for instance, hiking/dog walks are difficult. She loves to bike and swim, both of which she does for fun, but those are weekend activities. She is not watching YouTube workout videos by herself, I help her choose appropriate workouts, because I want to be sure that it is someone that pays attention to form, so she does not hurt herself.

I am curious about the bolded. We both enjoy baking, and as a general rule, we don't just make simple cakes or cookies (except banana bread; that's a staple, to keep bananas from going bad). For instance, for Christmas, we baked and decorated a yule log - sponge cake, whipped cream filling, ganache covering, chocolate bark for decorations, meringue mushrooms, sugared cranberries and rosemary, etc. So what she chooses to bake are things that often have multiple components, or interesting technique. She loves to decorate especially (artsy kid), and eats what we bake.

You said in your first post that if you pack her something that seems like junk (macron) she won't eat it. You also said she doesn't like the way sugar makes her feel so she avoids it. But does makes elaborate baked goods which you claim she does eat? Doesn't that seem off to you? It is the food ritual behavior at 11 which is sending up red flags. It is pretty common for women with disordered eating to plan/cook/bake elaborate items then not eat them. Does she have an eating disorder now? Not sure but she is heading that way at a very young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP just reading this is huge red flags. She is 11. Most 11 years olds "work out" by being involved in sports, biking the neighborhood, going on hikes with their families, dog walks, etc. Your daughter is by herself watching youtube workout videos. That alone is a red flag. She is well on her way to disordered eating at a young age. The whole baking something that is long, complicated and aesthetically pleasing can be a sign of an eating disorder. The cutting out types of food IS a sign. So while she may never get to full flown eating disorder she is on her way to a terrible relationship with food and most importantly her body. Nip this in the bud now!

She is involved in a sport (diving), which is not exactly exercise intensive, and she had to start it, because her injury prevents her from doing what she has done for years (and I think that the kind of work she has to do for diving is helping with her injury). She used to do martial arts, but had to stop because of her injury. She has limitations on the type of exercise she can do because of her injury, and bad feet. So for instance, hiking/dog walks are difficult. She loves to bike and swim, both of which she does for fun, but those are weekend activities. She is not watching YouTube workout videos by herself, I help her choose appropriate workouts, because I want to be sure that it is someone that pays attention to form, so she does not hurt herself.

I am curious about the bolded. We both enjoy baking, and as a general rule, we don't just make simple cakes or cookies (except banana bread; that's a staple, to keep bananas from going bad). For instance, for Christmas, we baked and decorated a yule log - sponge cake, whipped cream filling, ganache covering, chocolate bark for decorations, meringue mushrooms, sugared cranberries and rosemary, etc. So what she chooses to bake are things that often have multiple components, or interesting technique. She loves to decorate especially (artsy kid), and eats what we bake.

You said in your first post that if you pack her something that seems like junk (macron) she won't eat it. You also said she doesn't like the way sugar makes her feel so she avoids it. But does makes elaborate baked goods which you claim she does eat? Doesn't that seem off to you? It is the food ritual behavior at 11 which is sending up red flags. It is pretty common for women with disordered eating to plan/cook/bake elaborate items then not eat them. Does she have an eating disorder now? Not sure but she is heading that way at a very young age.

It's not that cut and dry, where she doesn't eat any sugar. For instance, she will eat her very favorite sugary snacks (like chocolate babka, and banana bread), but not eat certain other things she used to, such as Oreos (she will eat yogurt with Oreos), and macaron. She will eat one of her favorite Indian foods with sugar (like regular white sugar), bread or crepes with Nutella and banana (or strawberries and cream), but not say, Takis or Doritos. She will eat ice cream, just not in the same quantity or frequency that she used to. She loves cheesecake, and that's her special occasion treat. I don't *claim* anything, I can actually see her eat it. We eat together. There is no change in what she eats for breakfast/lunch/dinner, but there is a significant change in snacking. The baking elaborate items predates the health kick by years. As I said previously, she is an excellent baker, and that has likely come about because it's a shared activity we have been doing since she was little. The frequency of baking has gone down, with the start of the school year, and me being pre-diabetic, but watching GBBS always makes us want to try making new and elaborate things (a new season just started).

I do want to say that I am taking the experiences of those that have had ED themselves, and those that have gone through it with their children, seriously. There is no history of ED in the family, so this is all new territory to me, and there is no one in the family that can provide perspective, so I appreciate what others are sharing. I am erring on the side of caution here, as that seems prudent. As a PP said, most therapists (if they're taking new patients at all) are booking months ahead, so there is plenty of time to observe and gather more data.

[Anonymous]

I'm not beating you up by any means.

I have a teen daughter with several risk factors for eating disorders. Some of them can be changed (activity of choice) but are hard to change, because she loves it. Some can't be changed. (Family history. Me. Sorry, kid.)

Because of that, I do keep an eye on her. Being a teen girl, she'll sometimes say something worrisome, but then doesn't follow through. And I mean that as a good thing! Like, she'll say, "I'm going to work out every day," but then she gets busy with homework and friends and her existing activities, and it doesn't happen, and it doesn't bother her. As long as she seems relatively untroubled/unobsessed about diet and exercise, I think she's OK. Most teenagers should be pretty carefree about this stuff. I think the cautionary messages you're getting are because she seems to be getting LESS carefree, and the signs that might be something or might be nothing are adding up. Does that make sense?

[Anonymous]

OP check out ortorexia. Again NOT SAYING SHE HAS THIS, but being 11 and her thinking about food in this way stuck me as something she may progress into. It isn't a currently recognized eating disorder but on the rise due to Social media. When you say she eats chocolate babka but not Doritos it begins to sound like there is something more to this. Add in YouTube fitness videos and then I see more flags. Again, just flags to watch not trot her off to a therapist.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the above poster to keep on eye on it, but not therapy worthy at this point. I don't agree that eating a babka rather than Doritos means anything other than she would rather eat a baked good with REAL ingredients than a bag of chemicals aka Doritos. My kid in middle school read some nonfiction book with the class about processed food and it turned her off. I thought that was great. They learn in health class about junk too. Also, someone who eats chocolate babka clearing is not afraid of sugar.

[Anonymous]

OMFG the responses on this thread!

She is just trying to be healthy!

OP, back off. Don't try to control her eating and exercise habits when everything you describe is perfectly healthy. You say she isn't eating oreos? That is not a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd keep an eye on it. The potential red flag to me would be if she's become significantly more "disciplined" with food/fitness than she has with other spheres of her life. The need for control often underlies eating disorders.

+1 I have the same concern.

[Anonymous]

Have spent the past year with my 11 year old DD who developed full blown anorexia. We live in such a diet culture and skinny and judgey world around healthy food and looks that it’s hard to read some of the advice and perspectives who want to act like being this concerned about food and working out related to looks at this age is ok.

The goal is normalize your daughters eating so she’s not so obsessed with types of restrictions or not eating things she used to eat. (Anything is fine in moderation!) and getting her on a physically and mentally healthy path for life. things like baking and thinking and talking about food is a signal she wants it but won’t let herself have that. Anyway. I’d suggest reading How to Nourish Your Child through an Eating Disorder. It sounds scary but it’s usual as just a blueprint for normalizing eating - and you don’t have to label if your kid has a “real” ED or not. At age 11 have her focus on any physical activity that has a social element to it and do not do the workout videos. It’s not developmentally appropriate and reinforces a msg of exercise as dieting and not because it feels good and is healthy and fun at this age. Have her eat her “fear foods” as a sometimes food - ie avoiding and breaking restrictions is key to not going down the ED rabbit hole. Do it now. Most people who develop a full blown diagnosed ED have a genetic predisposition that collides with cultural and other factors. When the body goes into deprecation that can be a huge trigger - think about losing your rationality when you’re really hangry. I don’t think your daughter sounds like where mine got to - or what I’ve seen and read about and learned about in various treatment programs at this point as a full blown ED. But there are signals of disordered and unhealthy “healthy” rules and restrictions that if not checked can lead to a life of disordered eating and feeling bad about herself and having an unhealthy relationship with food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have spent the past year with my 11 year old DD who developed full blown anorexia. We live in such a diet culture and skinny and judgey world around healthy food and looks that it’s hard to read some of the advice and perspectives who want to act like being this concerned about food and working out related to looks at this age is ok.

The goal is normalize your daughters eating so she’s not so obsessed with types of restrictions or not eating things she used to eat. (Anything is fine in moderation!) and getting her on a physically and mentally healthy path for life. things like baking and thinking and talking about food is a signal she wants it but won’t let herself have that. Anyway. I’d suggest reading How to Nourish Your Child through an Eating Disorder. It sounds scary but it’s usual as just a blueprint for normalizing eating - and you don’t have to label if your kid has a “real” ED or not. At age 11 have her focus on any physical activity that has a social element to it and do not do the workout videos. It’s not developmentally appropriate and reinforces a msg of exercise as dieting and not because it feels good and is healthy and fun at this age. Have her eat her “fear foods” as a sometimes food - ie avoiding and breaking restrictions is key to not going down the ED rabbit hole. Do it now. Most people who develop a full blown diagnosed ED have a genetic predisposition that collides with cultural and other factors. When the body goes into deprecation that can be a huge trigger - think about losing your rationality when you’re really hangry. I don’t think your daughter sounds like where mine got to - or what I’ve seen and read about and learned about in various treatment programs at this point as a full blown ED. But there are signals of disordered and unhealthy “healthy” rules and restrictions that if not checked can lead to a life of disordered eating and feeling bad about herself and having an unhealthy relationship with food.

Not OP, but thank you for this really helpful post.