Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

I once heard that sometimes people go through just enough therapy to be dangerous. Like they finally have somebody tell them that their behaviors make sense because of their background, circumstances, etc., but they haven’t yet gotten to the part about the need to not hurt other people and finding ways to change the way they do things. And some never get there!

OP I think you should be cautious about couples therapy. My husband has never done anything really bad, but couples therapy was useless until he went to individual therapy to realize that a) my feelings mattered and b) asking him to change wasn’t an attack on his character. Before that he wanted a lot of credit for the things he did right, and figured that sense the good outweighed the bad, I shouldn’t make a big deal about the bad (and the big deal he was talking about was literally just me asking him to stop doing something objectively bad).

I’m so sorry OP. You’ve got a lot of crappy things happening tk you.

[Anonymous]

Sorry OP,
Thinking of you and hoping you find strength for you and your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I once heard that sometimes people go through just enough therapy to be dangerous. Like they finally have somebody tell them that their behaviors make sense because of their background, circumstances, etc., but they haven’t yet gotten to the part about the need to not hurt other people and finding ways to change the way they do things. And some never get there!

OP I think you should be cautious about couples therapy. My husband has never done anything really bad, but couples therapy was useless until he went to individual therapy to realize that a) my feelings mattered and b) asking him to change wasn’t an attack on his character. Before that he wanted a lot of credit for the things he did right, and figured that sense the good outweighed the bad, I shouldn’t make a big deal about the bad (and the big deal he was talking about was literally just me asking him to stop doing something objectively bad).

I’m so sorry OP. You’ve got a lot of crappy things happening tk you.

I'm the pp at 10:57 just above and this is the kind of post I was hoping would turn up, from someone who has been there. This is what I meant about therapy "language" but this PP puts it much better. Sometimes a person gets hold of the idea that "my behaviors make sense so they're not truly my fault and I therefore am not fully responsible." Something to watch out for, OP. I'd really push for individual therapy for DH as soon as possible (and never, ever with the same person who is the couples therapist--any good couples therapist would not suggest that, either.).

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PPs

He has his first individual therapy today. I know probably bad to start MC and IC on the same day but he is going to see someone that my long time therapist recommended highly and it was the only available appt. He's there now (it's in person).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: ... he was compartmentalizing so hard that he didn't even think of it as a "real" affair. He says he's not trying to minimize the situation but that the affair was so isolated in his mind and like a fake parallel life to his family life that the two didn't intersect in his brain. He says he didn't even understand that the depression he has been in, shorter fuse in everyday interactions, eating like crap, not sleeping, letting his lifelong friendships slip away, and overwhelming feelings of self hatred were manifestations of the guilt that was eating him alive.

As someone who has had an affair, his description of the "fake parallel life" is exactly how I felt. H didn't know, so I felt like I wasn't hurting him, and the dopamine hits I got from the affair were just fun. I'm not defending him or myself, just corroborating his wording.

However, I would caution you about believing that last sentence. He was not grumpy and withdrawn because of guilt -- there's no guilt, because as he said the two lives don't intersect. He was grumpy and withdrawn because nothing was as fun as getting the next hit of affair dopamine. Time spent doing anything else was inferior to time spent getting his ego stroked and flirting.

[Anonymous]

Oh my god OP. I’ve been thinking of you often and am so sorry to hear about this weekend. You do not deserve any of this.

I have not been in your shoes, but I have been seriously depressed and know how hard it can be to even function. I hope you can outsource as much as possible and strategize with your own therapist on how to get through the next few weeks/months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. It's been two weeks since D Day and I am just completely broken. I had a glimmer of hope over the weekend, but it faded quickly yesterday.

DH blew up at me last night. He has been so calm and supportive (as strange as that sounds for the situation). He's answered my thousands of questions thoroughly over and over. He's done everything for the household and family because I've just been totally out of commission and barely scraping by. He's put on an extra happy face for the kids to counteracted my visible despair.

Last night, he came into the bedroom and asked if I needed anything. I said no. He asked if he could sit with me for a bit. I said yes. I started asking questions about the affair again because I'm really trying to process this. I made a mean comment. He quietly got up and walked away back to the in law suite where he's been staying. I waited 10 minutes and went down there and told him that he can't just walk away from me and if he really wanted a shot at fixing this, he was going to have to endure my questions and distrust for years to come. He basically said fine you want me feelings- here's my feelings. And he started SCREAMING. We have never raised our voices at each other before. The things he was saying were somewhat understandable but it scared the sh*t out of me how angry he was- he was neon red, veins popping, standing in this animalistic stance like a gorilla or something (I realize this sounds ridiculous). He was yelling that he's been so calm and trying to sit there and be supportive to me and that I push him for conversations he's not ready to have because he's still awaiting therapy to start and he doesn't have the right tools to do this now without effing it up. That he's trying to answer my questions honestly but I don't accept his answers. (Mostly surrounding why, how could you do this, how could you throw me aside like trash, how could I be so stupid etc). He responds that he didn't set out to hurt me, didn't do any of this with the intention of hurting me, it was a happenstance situation that snowballed out of control and he was compartmentalizing so hard that he didn't even think of it as a "real" affair. He says he's not trying to minimize the situation but that the affair was so isolated in his mind and like a fake parallel life to his family life that the two didn't intersect in his brain. He says he didn't even understand that the depression he has been in, shorter fuse in everyday interactions, eating like crap, not sleeping, letting his lifelong friendships slip away, and overwhelming feelings of self hatred were manifestations of the guilt that was eating him alive.

We have our first couples counseling today. I know many recommended not doing it until after individual counseling but we at least need to be able to have conversations and learn to communicate through this time even if it's not actually surrounding the affair.

He also disclosed that he's been hiding whiskey in the basement and on really bad days, he would finish up work early and make himself a drink or two before coming upstairs and/or sit and drink alone after I went to sleep.

I did tell one of my best friends Sunday night. We went to dinner and she was SHOCKED (she's been my friend longer than I've known DH), but really supportive and nonjudgemental which felt like a weight was lifted.

I'm feeling so lost and my sense of reality is just...gone. I don't know what day it is. I'm not sleeping or eating. Days and nights are blending together. I went to the grocery store yesterday and asked a worker if they had something and they said it was out of stock and my first thought was if they were telling me the truth. Wondering at what point I reach out to my GP. I need to function for my kids.

Well, he was wrong to blow up at you. But if you're looking to him to answer questions like "How could I be so stupid", ask yourself what answer you're trying to get. Do you want him to explain exactly what clues you missed? Or is it more of a rhetorical question that's part of you venting? You might do better bringing that kind of venting and processing to your therapist, rather than your DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... he was compartmentalizing so hard that he didn't even think of it as a "real" affair. He says he's not trying to minimize the situation but that the affair was so isolated in his mind and like a fake parallel life to his family life that the two didn't intersect in his brain. He says he didn't even understand that the depression he has been in, shorter fuse in everyday interactions, eating like crap, not sleeping, letting his lifelong friendships slip away, and overwhelming feelings of self hatred were manifestations of the guilt that was eating him alive.

As someone who has had an affair, his description of the "fake parallel life" is exactly how I felt. H didn't know, so I felt like I wasn't hurting him, and the dopamine hits I got from the affair were just fun. I'm not defending him or myself, just corroborating his wording.

However, I would caution you about believing that last sentence. He was not grumpy and withdrawn because of guilt -- there's no guilt, because as he said the two lives don't intersect. He was grumpy and withdrawn because nothing was as fun as getting the next hit of affair dopamine. Time spent doing anything else was inferior to time spent getting his ego stroked and flirting.

I'm not OP but I want to thank you for posting this. It is a vast help to hear from someone who actually has experienced what OP's DH is experiencing. Cautions from you have particular weight because of your having stood in his shoes.

[Anonymous]

OP, would it help to schedule Q&A sessions with him so that 1) he’s prepared to answer calmly and 2) you can connect and focus on the reason why he approaches you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PPs

He has his first individual therapy today. I know probably bad to start MC and IC on the same day but he is going to see someone that my long time therapist recommended highly and it was the only available appt. He's there now (it's in person).

OP, as one of those who suggested waiting on couples therapy - you’re doing your best. The main thing to watch for is you having to do most of the work in couples; a good couples therapist won’t let that happen. Don’t hesitate to pull back from couples for a while if you feel it’s not serving your interests right now. Your husband has a lot, a LOT of work to do.

I’m sorry he blew up at you this weekend. I think that episode indicates more than anything that this will be a long road and how far he has to come, “good” behavior the past two weeks aside. The latter is nice and all, but wholly insufficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PPs

He has his first individual therapy today. I know probably bad to start MC and IC on the same day but he is going to see someone that my long time therapist recommended highly and it was the only available appt. He's there now (it's in person).

OP, as one of those who suggested waiting on couples therapy - you’re doing your best. The main thing to watch for is you having to do most of the work in couples; a good couples therapist won’t let that happen. Don’t hesitate to pull back from couples for a while if you feel it’s not serving your interests right now. Your husband has a lot, a LOT of work to do.

I’m sorry he blew up at you this weekend. I think that episode indicates more than anything that this will be a long road and how far he has to come, “good” behavior the past two weeks aside. The latter is nice and all, but wholly insufficient.

Thank you this is helpful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: ... he was compartmentalizing so hard that he didn't even think of it as a "real" affair. He says he's not trying to minimize the situation but that the affair was so isolated in his mind and like a fake parallel life to his family life that the two didn't intersect in his brain. He says he didn't even understand that the depression he has been in, shorter fuse in everyday interactions, eating like crap, not sleeping, letting his lifelong friendships slip away, and overwhelming feelings of self hatred were manifestations of the guilt that was eating him alive.

As someone who has had an affair, his description of the "fake parallel life" is exactly how I felt. H didn't know, so I felt like I wasn't hurting him, and the dopamine hits I got from the affair were just fun. I'm not defending him or myself, just corroborating his wording.

However, I would caution you about believing that last sentence. He was not grumpy and withdrawn because of guilt -- there's no guilt, because as he said the two lives don't intersect. He was grumpy and withdrawn because nothing was as fun as getting the next hit of affair dopamine. Time spent doing anything else was inferior to time spent getting his ego stroked and flirting.

I'm not OP but I want to thank you for posting this. It is a vast help to hear from someone who actually has experienced what OP's DH is experiencing. Cautions from you have particular weight because of your having stood in his shoes.

+1 to thanks for sharing. Your second paragraph about the dopamine hits was really informative. Sad too of course, but it makes sense that it’s not about guilt.

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m glad you confided to a friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My phone is getting all these spam chain messages now on WhatsApp (which DH and OW used to communicate). I have never gotten a message on WhatsApp ever, I only just downloaded it to contact our airport transfer driver when we landed on our trip per the company's instructions.

When I originally messaged OW on DH's phone to tell her he was lying about everything, I did include my number and let her know that she could reach out if she had any further questions or would like to have an adult conversation with me.

Do we think this is a coincidence? Is she signing me up for spam lists or something? Just started happening this morning.

FWIW, I use WhatsApp to communicate with people in Europe for the purpose of purchasing horses and I have NEVER once received a spam message. I do on my regular phone texts (Apple) though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My phone is getting all these spam chain messages now on WhatsApp (which DH and OW used to communicate). I have never gotten a message on WhatsApp ever, I only just downloaded it to contact our airport transfer driver when we landed on our trip per the company's instructions.

When I originally messaged OW on DH's phone to tell her he was lying about everything, I did include my number and let her know that she could reach out if she had any further questions or would like to have an adult conversation with me.

Do we think this is a coincidence? Is she signing me up for spam lists or something? Just started happening this morning.

FWIW, I use WhatsApp to communicate with people in Europe for the purpose of purchasing horses and I have NEVER once received a spam message. I do on my regular phone texts (Apple) though.

Never change, DCUM