What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

That would be an interesting discussion—if anybody here had actually said what you claim. Nobody ever said we have to assume the best about OP and the worst about her son. Just that your worst-case assumptions about OP are unjustified. Nice try turning this around from your own games, though.

You’re either a troll or a bully. This post is spot on: “Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

That would be an interesting discussion—if anybody here had actually said what you claim. Nobody ever said we have to assume the best about OP and the worst about her son. Just that your worst-case assumptions about OP are unjustified. Nice try turning this around from your own games, though.

You’re either a troll or a bully. This post is spot on: “Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.”

DP. Boy, you guys are dense. I think it's purposeful. No one has said to assume the best of OP and think the worst of her son. But that is what the Team OP comments have been about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

That would be an interesting discussion—if anybody here had actually said what you claim. Nobody ever said we have to assume the best about OP and the worst about her son. Just that your worst-case assumptions about OP are unjustified. Nice try turning this around from your own games, though.

You’re either a troll or a bully. This post is spot on: “Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.”

Look, you’ve freaked out at every single observation that OP could bear some responsibility or should be open minded about listening to her son. You seem to believe it’s bullying to make any comment that is not 100% supportive. Your approach to DCUM (an anonymous advice board) is frankly pretty bizarre, and suggests you are fighting your own battle here instead of actually trying to figure out what’s going on. If you want to send OP a Hallmark card, CVS is that way. This is DCUM though, and the thing we are doing here is trying to fill in the gaps based on our own views of what might be going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

That would be an interesting discussion—if anybody here had actually said what you claim. Nobody ever said we have to assume the best about OP and the worst about her son. Just that your worst-case assumptions about OP are unjustified. Nice try turning this around from your own games, though.

You’re either a troll or a bully. This post is spot on: “Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.”

Look, you’ve freaked out at every single observation that OP could bear some responsibility or should be open minded about listening to her son. You seem to believe it’s bullying to make any comment that is not 100% supportive. Your approach to DCUM (an anonymous advice board) is frankly pretty bizarre, and suggests you are fighting your own battle here instead of actually trying to figure out what’s going on. If you want to send OP a Hallmark card, CVS is that way. This is DCUM though, and the thing we are doing here is trying to fill in the gaps based on our own views of what might be going on.

Stop already. You made up stuff about OP and now you’re making up stuff about anybody who pushes back on your BS. It’s bizarre. I hope you can work it out in therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, [b]they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

No, this is exactly what OP and others have said: adult children are wrong to want anything other than whatever apology offered, and they have no right to push it any further than that. The parents deserve immediate forgiveness because parenting is hard, the child was challenging, the parent didn't intend any harm.

What else beyond an acknowledgement and apology is possible? What more ? Money, jail time? Really most parents give everything they can and when it's not good enough, then what?

[Anonymous]

I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, [b]they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

No, this is exactly what OP and others have said: adult children are wrong to want anything other than whatever apology offered, and they have no right to push it any further than that. The parents deserve immediate forgiveness because parenting is hard, the child was challenging, the parent didn't intend any harm.

What else beyond an acknowledgement and apology is possible? What more ? Money, jail time? Really most parents give everything they can and when it's not good enough, then what?

I mean, many people have posted here about what a parent who truly wanted to understand and repair the relationship would do. Listen, engage, possibly go to family therapy. What is not functional is the extremely defensive approach you have to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

The one claiming the OP was being "bullied"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

The one claiming the OP was being "bullied"?

Yes, and that other PP's are projecting, and "nobody said that" etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

You know, I'd really appreciate an explanation from you about the exercise occuring here on DCUM, and what kind of inferences are OK to make based on how people describe their situations. Why is it, for example, that you think that we all must assume the best about OP, and assume the worst about her child? Do you have any principles of psychology, textual interpretation, advice-giving, etc, that underly this viewpoint? Or do you just have an ethical principal that when someone post something on the internet, they shall never be criticized and shall always be 100% supported?

That would be an interesting discussion—if anybody here had actually said what you claim. Nobody ever said we have to assume the best about OP and the worst about her son. Just that your worst-case assumptions about OP are unjustified. Nice try turning this around from your own games, though.

You’re either a troll or a bully. This post is spot on: “Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.”

Look, you’ve freaked out at every single observation that OP could bear some responsibility or should be open minded about listening to her son. You seem to believe it’s bullying to make any comment that is not 100% supportive. Your approach to DCUM (an anonymous advice board) is frankly pretty bizarre, and suggests you are fighting your own battle here instead of actually trying to figure out what’s going on. If you want to send OP a Hallmark card, CVS is that way. This is DCUM though, and the thing we are doing here is trying to fill in the gaps based on our own views of what might be going on.

Stop already. You made up stuff about OP and now you’re making up stuff about anybody who pushes back on your BS. It’s bizarre. I hope you can work it out in therapy.

Again - this is an anonymous, free message board. When someone posts a question, the whole point is to reply with your viewpoint based on your own experiences, and what you think sheds light on the OP's situationn, your take on it. Do you ever read advice columns? It is absolutely common for the advice columnist to sometimes speculatively fill in the gaps, criticize, make inferences. I'm not quite sure what you think we're doing here. If you explained, that would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

The one claiming the OP was being "bullied"?

Yes, and that other PP's are projecting, and "nobody said that" etc.

Yeah, I recognized that poster too. It was in a breastfeeding post I think. I didn't see the adoption one. Utterly freaked out about people giving their own opinions about the matter as "bullying" and declaring that "OP doesn't have to listen to any of you!!!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

The one claiming the OP was being "bullied"?

Yes, and that other PP's are projecting, and "nobody said that" etc.

Yeah, I recognized that poster too. It was in a breastfeeding post I think. I didn't see the adoption one. Utterly freaked out about people giving their own opinions about the matter as "bullying" and declaring that "OP doesn't have to listen to any of you!!!"

I didn't see the breastfeeding post. I bet it was epic. Send link if you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

WT actual F. I’m probably the pp you’re complaining about. I have absolutely no idea what that adoption thread was about and I certainly never participated on it. Ask the moderator.

Your problem is fantasizing about other posters and fabricating imaginary narratives that satisfy some psychological need you have. From OP to me with undoubtedly lots of stops in between to obsess about other random DCUMers. You pursue us all across dozens of pages and then pretend innocence. Please seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I ran into this poster before. The topic was adoption, and the poster's position was that adoption is wonderful and in no way traumatizing to adoptees. Similar types of argument. The biggest similarity is: would not let go, kept going through tens of pages, all day long, as if arguing forever would make her right. Pretended to be an army of posters but obviously was only one. Anyway, I gave up about 20 pages ago on his thread. This isn't normal.

WT actual F. I’m probably the pp you’re complaining about. I have absolutely no idea what that adoption thread was about and I certainly never participated on it. Ask the moderator.

Your problem is fantasizing about other posters and fabricating imaginary narratives that satisfy some psychological need you have. From OP to me with undoubtedly lots of stops in between to obsess about other random DCUMers. You pursue us all across dozens of pages and then pretend innocence. Please seek help.

^^ I see you think I’ve been on some breast-feeding post too. No. Ask the moderator. You’re absolutely insane.