What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is “mommy issues” PP. just wanted to chime in again and say that I haven’t posted since page 29.

Seems like someone can’t accept that there is a pattern they aren’t seeing… (OP did a great job and is a wonderful mother who did the best they could and made no mistakes that affected their child long term!!! But FYI that wasn’t the same kind of projection I’m accusing other people of!!!!!)

Don’t lie. Not a single poster wrote that OP deserves a “mother of the year” award. You made that up. We’re arguing—and they’re are several of us—that you shouldn’t be calling her the devil incarnate. The whole point is that, without further detailed info from OP, WE JUST DON’T KNOW. You claiming she’s terrible is just social media bullying.

Are you kidding, just one page ago, you were talking about her working her ass off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is “mommy issues” PP. just wanted to chime in again and say that I haven’t posted since page 29.

Seems like someone can’t accept that there is a pattern they aren’t seeing… (OP did a great job and is a wonderful mother who did the best they could and made no mistakes that affected their child long term!!! But FYI that wasn’t the same kind of projection I’m accusing other people of!!!!!)

Don’t lie. Not a single poster wrote that OP deserves a “mother of the year” award. You made that up. We’re arguing—and they’re are several of us—that you shouldn’t be calling her the devil incarnate. The whole point is that, without further detailed info from OP, WE JUST DON’T KNOW. You claiming she’s terrible is just social media bullying.

Are you kidding, just one page ago, you were talking about her working her ass off.

And maybe she did work her ads off. But I said nothing about her relationship with her son. The fact that you can’t see layers and subtlety is one of your issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

Lots of people who say they stayed for the kids really stayed for themselves, because they were afraid of getting divorced. In those cases, the kids unfortunately are often collateral damage.

Not in my case. I make more than XDH and I’m much, much better with money. Why do you twist everything to fit your narrative?

First, you can have lots of money and still be afraid of divorce. Second, who said I was talking about you specifically?

You’re being cruel AF to OP, based on your own interpolations of the very little she’s told us. Given your wanton cruelty, I worry for your children (if you’re even being honest about having children)

Repeatedly fighting in front of your young children is cruel AF but do go on about meanness of the message board.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is “mommy issues” PP. just wanted to chime in again and say that I haven’t posted since page 29.

Seems like someone can’t accept that there is a pattern they aren’t seeing… (OP did a great job and is a wonderful mother who did the best they could and made no mistakes that affected their child long term!!! But FYI that wasn’t the same kind of projection I’m accusing other people of!!!!!)

Don’t lie. Not a single poster wrote that OP deserves a “mother of the year” award. You made that up. We’re arguing—and they’re are several of us—that you shouldn’t be calling her the devil incarnate. The whole point is that, without further detailed info from OP, WE JUST DON’T KNOW. You claiming she’s terrible is just social media bullying.

Oh ffs. This is DCUM. Not a support therapy group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Has she acknowledged to her son that her choices were poor? OP? What did you say in your apology?

What I find interesting is that OP is sort of willing to acknowledge that some of her choices might have been wrong or harmful. But what she's really demanding is exactly how her son process that history -- she wants to control how he thinks and acts about it. She cannot accept that he has his own point of view. She believes that because she apologized that is "enough," because she tried her hardest and her son was "challenging." In short - really not a fruitful way to have a relationship.

Why can't that be true? She did her best. Her son was challenging. Have you REALLY not known any challenging kids? Really? Not talking about you for a second -- -- but seriously, you have never known a challenging child? A neighbor, your kids' classmates, a neighbor, a niece of nephew -- none?? They do exist. Some children are difficult. It's not wrong to say it like it is.

Of course I do. I have two challenging brothers, and what my parents did to them was awful. My parents would probably claim that I was challenging too (despite being NMFS and getting a huge college scholarship and being completely self-supporting from the minute I left home). Narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else.

So you are not willing to admit that some children are challenging.

My post literally said my brothers were challenging. Kids being challenging does not give parents license to do whatever they want and claim they never did anything wrong. It’s the opposite actually. And of course, syndromes like ODD are closely, closely linked to parenting style. My own child went through and extremely challenging phase and I got therapy to learn to parent him better.

You said narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else. SOME CHILDREN ARE DIFFICULT. Fact.

What are you going to do when your own child grows up and says you didn't handle their challenging phase well? That you could have done better? And that he resents you for not handling it well? Despite going to therapy to learn how to parent him better?

Well I certainly won’t whine and cry about how unfair it is and how he should forgive me immediately IF I did anything wrong, especially since it’s his fault largely for being challenging. I won’t make his mental health struggles all about my defensiveness. Most likely I’d find an excellent family therapist and invite him to come with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

accidentally getting the wrong kind of ice cream is obviously a completely different scale from forcing your kid to homeschool, rigid religious expectations, college pressure, subjecting them to a high-conflict marriage.

OP said they homeschooled because the local school was bad and dangerous. They went to church, but so do lots of people and that doesn’t mean “rigid religious expectations.” Helping your kid try college is terrible now?

Are you trolling? Or you’re just a basic internet bully. You’re completely twisting everything OP said.

She *said* that after PAGES AND PAGES of people telling her that forcing her religion on him and forcing homeschooling, which she said he didn’t want, on him. People here change their stories every day to fit their preferred narrative when they aren’t getting the affirming responses they wanted. Are you new to DCUM?

exactly. and a lot of religious people who homeschool do it as part of the religious isolation - the school isn’t bad or dangerous actually, but they want to protect their kids from “the culture.”

homeschooling kids when the home is already tense and high-conflict sounds like a complete nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

I think you are hitting on the key difference. The Team OP crowd don't understand or want a close relationship with their adult child. Look at all these posts about crawling over the finish line after their hard work (or whatever hyperbole was said). They seem to want to just be done. tough to imagine a closer relationship in that situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Has she acknowledged to her son that her choices were poor? OP? What did you say in your apology?

What I find interesting is that OP is sort of willing to acknowledge that some of her choices might have been wrong or harmful. But what she's really demanding is exactly how her son process that history -- she wants to control how he thinks and acts about it. She cannot accept that he has his own point of view. She believes that because she apologized that is "enough," because she tried her hardest and her son was "challenging." In short - really not a fruitful way to have a relationship.

Why can't that be true? She did her best. Her son was challenging. Have you REALLY not known any challenging kids? Really? Not talking about you for a second -- -- but seriously, you have never known a challenging child? A neighbor, your kids' classmates, a neighbor, a niece of nephew -- none?? They do exist. Some children are difficult. It's not wrong to say it like it is.

Of course I do. I have two challenging brothers, and what my parents did to them was awful. My parents would probably claim that I was challenging too (despite being NMFS and getting a huge college scholarship and being completely self-supporting from the minute I left home). Narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else.

So you are not willing to admit that some children are challenging.

My post literally said my brothers were challenging. Kids being challenging does not give parents license to do whatever they want and claim they never did anything wrong. It’s the opposite actually. And of course, syndromes like ODD are closely, closely linked to parenting style. My own child went through and extremely challenging phase and I got therapy to learn to parent him better.

You said narcissistic/emotionally immature parents will always blame someone else. SOME CHILDREN ARE DIFFICULT. Fact.

What are you going to do when your own child grows up and says you didn't handle their challenging phase well? That you could have done better? And that he resents you for not handling it well? Despite going to therapy to learn how to parent him better?

DP. I am not a perfect mother. I do my best, but sometimes I screw up. If my child says those thing to me some day, I will apologize for not being the mother he needed me to be during those times.

+1

And not blame it on “the therapist”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

I think you are hitting on the key difference. The Team OP crowd don't understand or want a close relationship with their adult child. Look at all these posts about crawling over the finish line after their hard work (or whatever hyperbole was said). They seem to want to just be done. tough to imagine a closer relationship in that situation.

You just made all that up—nobody here said they don’t want a close relationship with their own child. Nobody indicated that subtly for you to “surmise” either.

What is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

Not satisfied with making stuff up about OP, the bullies are making stuff up about other posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

I think you are hitting on the key difference. The Team OP crowd don't understand or want a close relationship with their adult child. Look at all these posts about crawling over the finish line after their hard work (or whatever hyperbole was said). They seem to want to just be done. tough to imagine a closer relationship in that situation.

You just made all that up—nobody here said they don’t want a close relationship with their own child. Nobody indicated that subtly for you to “surmise” either.

What is wrong with you?

That’s why I also used the word “understand.” Your actions are not ones that lend themselves to a close relationship. Some people aren’t emotionally mature. That’s just a fact. I’m sorry if that makes you feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

I think you are hitting on the key difference. The Team OP crowd don't understand or want a close relationship with their adult child. Look at all these posts about crawling over the finish line after their hard work (or whatever hyperbole was said). They seem to want to just be done. tough to imagine a closer relationship in that situation.

You just made all that up—nobody here said they don’t want a close relationship with their own child. Nobody indicated that subtly for you to “surmise” either.

What is wrong with you?

Well, you're certainly not acting like you want a close relationship if you dismiss what they say and just chalk it all up to them being "challenging." Relationships take work. If your view of parenting is that your adult child has to never have any discussion with you about childhood, then that's not really going to work. You have to stop being controlling at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

When I say “here,” I mean in this discussion. One big objection commenters have to a parent apologizing to an adult child for their parenting is that the parent sacrificed a lot for their child. But you can do a lot for somebody and still make a mistake, even a big mistake, so how much you did for somebody isn’t actually relevant to that one specific issue the person wants to address.

Think about a mom who works part time who asks her husband with more help with the dishes, and is met with “you don’t understand how hard things are on me and you don’t appreciate the work I do to provide for the family.” That might be true but it’s not a helpful response.

Think about the mom who puts on an enormous spread for her DC's birthday and invites all of his friends and relatives, and then he says, "But you know I don't like cherries, and there were cherries on the ice cream." Some people are like that. They only feel what's wrong. Some people are content, same situation.

People are saying if you work your ass off for someone, you deserve a pass for the things you did BY MISTAKE that weren't exactly right. Not talking about abandonment or beatings or anything like that -- we're talking about CHOICES a parent made in good faith, that they thought were right for their child.

I see nothing that says OP worked her ass for her children. And no, fighting in front of your children repeatedly is not a mistake. It's not a beating but it's pretty serious. That was not a good faith choice. ANd there is no way she could have thought that was right for her child.

DP. Sacrificing one earner’s income to homeschool is “working her ass off” by definition. I’m divorced and while we never fought in front of the kids (we’re both more passive aggressive), they still knew. Perhaps the only good choice would have been to get divorced stat. But OP says she stayed in an apparently miserable marriage only for the kids’ sake—and maybe that was the wrong choice, but it was not an easy choice, nor did was it an ill-intentioned choice because the only reason she stayed instead of dumping the ex was because of her kids.

What exactly is your problem, with all these willful misinterpretations? It’s fascinating.

OP never said she gave up her earner's income to homeschool. She, unlike you, said she did not hide fights. (Are you really saying there isn't a difference between high conflict and low conflict households?) Look at you, making it about you again, and making up facts that are convenient to your story.

Oh for Pete’s sake. Come back and talk after your kids have left toddlerhood and your own marriage has fallen apart. It’s almost impossible to know, as it’s happening, what to do about a bad marriage. Every single marriage and family is unique. Do you hold it together for the kids, even though your relationship is crap? Do you divorce immediately?

There are no good choices. No good choices. And to repeat, every marriage and family is unique. OP’s kid would have been hurt no matter what she did.

You and your naivety and willful misinterpretations are poisonous.

I mean, I’m facing this right now, and absolutely working very hard to minimize impact.

And the fact that OP (or any parent) worked hard obviously does not mean that their adult child has no right to discuss the impact of their childhood. “Team OP” here seem to believe that adult children never have the right to discuss the past and must accept that their parents must be immediately forgiven because they worked hard. I hope you can see how that kind of belief is not going to lead to a good relationship with adult children. But what I suspect is that Team OP doesn’t actually really care about the quality of the adult relationship. They need to maintain the belief that “parenting was hard, I did my best, my kids were challenging, it’s not my fault.”

WTF, nobody said that. The objections were to you “surmising” that OP was a horrible parent based on things she never said.

You have serious issues and need your own therapist.

No, this is exactly what OP and others have said: adult children are wrong to want anything other than whatever apology offered, and they have no right to push it any further than that. The parents deserve immediate forgiveness because parenting is hard, the child was challenging, the parent didn't intend any harm.