Be honest- what do you think about women who are content to be just wives and mothers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

I left my career in which I was happy, accommodated, valued, and relatively highly paid. But I couldn’t handle the lifestyle anymore of juggling that career while having three kids, one in daycare and two in before and after care, not to mention the chaos of summer camps and school breaks and snow days. We were all stressed and no one was happy at home. I miss my job sometimes, but my kids are so much happier that so far it’s been worth the sacrifice. I can always go back to work later, when we can all handle it better.

If things like snow days and school breaks are chaos then no, you’re not being accommodated. Some jobs just can’t— ER docs, nurses, etc.— but in 2024 a job that is done at a desk isn’t a matter of life and death, and a couple snow days per winter and breaks known about a year in advance should pose 0 hardship for a well organized employer. The other kind is who people leave.

Hmmm… I am in a better position than you to understand and speak to how I was treated by my employer. Have you never had a presentation or important meeting the same day as your spouse, and then whoops now a kid is sick or it’s a snow day! And school breaks add up to MONTHS out of the year (you know summer break is a thing right? and planning for, booking, and then doing the daily drop off and pick ups can get pretty complicated, especially with multiple kids)… You’re being ridiculous.

The reality is: It can be really hard to have two full time working parents and multiple kids, even (gasp!) school age kids! I am not ashamed to admit that I reached a point where I just couldn’t handle it all anymore, and more importantly, I didn’t WANT to handle it all anymore.

You are in a better position than me to say if you’re being accommodated, but your examples are of a workplace that isn’t accommodating. Yes, there have been instances where there’s a sick kid on an important day. In the three times last year it happened, once I called backup care which work pays for, and a WH Nanny was at my house 35 minutes before I needed to leave (kid was better but the rule is 24 hours after vomiting) once I called and rescheduled my important meeting to the afternoon so I could get to the pediatrician sick hours and have the kid on antibiotics, then they watched bluey on my office couch for two hours, and once I just said sorry I know it’s inconvenient but we will deal with this tomorrow. That’s actually being accommodated. At no point did anyone try to behave like the child should just disappear for the convenience of the workplace. I do not blame you for leaving a job in which you weren’t, is what I’m trying to say, and I think those are the jobs that people leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

Sure, but people are saying that they should, "I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally."

Yes but that’s what someone is saying. People say all kinds of things. The above sentence likely fills someone with a warmer feeling of superiority than saying “I wasn’t getting much out of my career, and I get a lot out of being home”. People aren’t always comfortable admitting they weren’t really getting much because it acknowledges that others were.

This works both ways though (I mean the judgment).

I did leave my job after I had a baby because it wasn't fulfilling and I realized it would be more fulfilling to be home. My job wasn't menial (SME with a decent amount of seniority) but I also wasn't in charge, had to deal with a lot of office politics/corporate BS, and was kind of burnt out. But I would tell that to people and they'd openly judge me for it. Like I remember saying this to a friend of a friend who asked if I'd been planning to become a SAHM ("No, but after my daughter was born, I just realized staying home with her was more appealing to me at this point in time than staying in my job -- I was ready for a change") and her response? "I think I'm honestly too smart to ever feel that way, my brain just could not be engaged enough staying home with a baby." Like literally this woman called me stupid to my face because I chose to quit a pretty decent job to stay home with my baby. That's the worst example but I remember getting a lot of comments like that during that time. Being a SAHM is pretty unusually in my social circles, so I went out of my way to frame it so people understood I didn't judge any woman for working instead of staying home (and still don't, it's what I always planned to do and it shocked me when I decided to do something else instead). But wow were some people rude to me about it.

That woman was a glassbowl. But the bolded is what I meant by saying a job doesn’t have to be low prestige to be menial (maybe I need a better word.) but if you’re dealing with a ton of BS and not being compensated extraordinarily…of course you leave. That is, in fact, the smart thing regardless of what that woman said.

I have two extremely high-performing women on my team right now who just went into the “kids maybe?” stages with their husbands. You can bet I will get them every possible accommodation and flexibility because if I do, they’ll stay with us and I will have made an investment in 5+ more years of having them. If I don’t retain them, that’s on me, not on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

[Anonymous]

I think they are lucky to have a supportive partner who can provide. If I hadn't married so poorly when I was young, I might be one of them. Luckily, my career turned out to be more stable than my marriage. I do wish I could've stayed home some, but it just didn't turn out that way. They are in college now and I'm happy we have a good, close relationship despite me not being able to stay home past my short maternity leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

Sure, but people are saying that they should, "I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally."

Yes but that’s what someone is saying. People say all kinds of things. The above sentence likely fills someone with a warmer feeling of superiority than saying “I wasn’t getting much out of my career, and I get a lot out of being home”. People aren’t always comfortable admitting they weren’t really getting much because it acknowledges that others were.

This works both ways though (I mean the judgment).

I did leave my job after I had a baby because it wasn't fulfilling and I realized it would be more fulfilling to be home. My job wasn't menial (SME with a decent amount of seniority) but I also wasn't in charge, had to deal with a lot of office politics/corporate BS, and was kind of burnt out. But I would tell that to people and they'd openly judge me for it. Like I remember saying this to a friend of a friend who asked if I'd been planning to become a SAHM ("No, but after my daughter was born, I just realized staying home with her was more appealing to me at this point in time than staying in my job -- I was ready for a change") and her response? "I think I'm honestly too smart to ever feel that way, my brain just could not be engaged enough staying home with a baby." Like literally this woman called me stupid to my face because I chose to quit a pretty decent job to stay home with my baby. That's the worst example but I remember getting a lot of comments like that during that time. Being a SAHM is pretty unusually in my social circles, so I went out of my way to frame it so people understood I didn't judge any woman for working instead of staying home (and still don't, it's what I always planned to do and it shocked me when I decided to do something else instead). But wow were some people rude to me about it.

That woman was a glassbowl. But the bolded is what I meant by saying a job doesn’t have to be low prestige to be menial (maybe I need a better word.) but if you’re dealing with a ton of BS and not being compensated extraordinarily…of course you leave. That is, in fact, the smart thing regardless of what that woman said.

I have two extremely high-performing women on my team right now who just went into the “kids maybe?” stages with their husbands. You can bet I will get them every possible accommodation and flexibility because if I do, they’ll stay with us and I will have made an investment in 5+ more years of having them. If I don’t retain them, that’s on me, not on them.

I think it's smart that you value your high-performing employees so much, but there is nothing you can to do accommodate someone who wants to be the primary caregiver for their child during the infant and toddler years. That's not a failure on anyone's part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

+1 is this a FT job? I also assume you weren't paid or receiving benefits for the entirety of your leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

I left my career in which I was happy, accommodated, valued, and relatively highly paid. But I couldn’t handle the lifestyle anymore of juggling that career while having three kids, one in daycare and two in before and after care, not to mention the chaos of summer camps and school breaks and snow days. We were all stressed and no one was happy at home. I miss my job sometimes, but my kids are so much happier that so far it’s been worth the sacrifice. I can always go back to work later, when we can all handle it better.

If things like snow days and school breaks are chaos then no, you’re not being accommodated. Some jobs just can’t— ER docs, nurses, etc.— but in 2024 a job that is done at a desk isn’t a matter of life and death, and a couple snow days per winter and breaks known about a year in advance should pose 0 hardship for a well organized employer. The other kind is who people leave.

Hmmm… I am in a better position than you to understand and speak to how I was treated by my employer. Have you never had a presentation or important meeting the same day as your spouse, and then whoops now a kid is sick or it’s a snow day! And school breaks add up to MONTHS out of the year (you know summer break is a thing right? and planning for, booking, and then doing the daily drop off and pick ups can get pretty complicated, especially with multiple kids)… You’re being ridiculous.

The reality is: It can be really hard to have two full time working parents and multiple kids, even (gasp!) school age kids! I am not ashamed to admit that I reached a point where I just couldn’t handle it all anymore, and more importantly, I didn’t WANT to handle it all anymore.

You are in a better position than me to say if you’re being accommodated, but your examples are of a workplace that isn’t accommodating. Yes, there have been instances where there’s a sick kid on an important day. In the three times last year it happened, once I called backup care which work pays for, and a WH Nanny was at my house 35 minutes before I needed to leave (kid was better but the rule is 24 hours after vomiting) once I called and rescheduled my important meeting to the afternoon so I could get to the pediatrician sick hours and have the kid on antibiotics, then they watched bluey on my office couch for two hours, and once I just said sorry I know it’s inconvenient but we will deal with this tomorrow. That’s actually being accommodated. At no point did anyone try to behave like the child should just disappear for the convenience of the workplace. I do not blame you for leaving a job in which you weren’t, is what I’m trying to say, and I think those are the jobs that people leave.

Thanks for the clarification. You are, indeed, a ridiculous person.

(I also suspect my job was MUCH more important than yours, based on the accommodations you’re describing. But please, keep pretending to be the expert on everyone else’s career!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

I left my career in which I was happy, accommodated, valued, and relatively highly paid. But I couldn’t handle the lifestyle anymore of juggling that career while having three kids, one in daycare and two in before and after care, not to mention the chaos of summer camps and school breaks and snow days. We were all stressed and no one was happy at home. I miss my job sometimes, but my kids are so much happier that so far it’s been worth the sacrifice. I can always go back to work later, when we can all handle it better.

If things like snow days and school breaks are chaos then no, you’re not being accommodated. Some jobs just can’t— ER docs, nurses, etc.— but in 2024 a job that is done at a desk isn’t a matter of life and death, and a couple snow days per winter and breaks known about a year in advance should pose 0 hardship for a well organized employer. The other kind is who people leave.

Hmmm… I am in a better position than you to understand and speak to how I was treated by my employer. Have you never had a presentation or important meeting the same day as your spouse, and then whoops now a kid is sick or it’s a snow day! And school breaks add up to MONTHS out of the year (you know summer break is a thing right? and planning for, booking, and then doing the daily drop off and pick ups can get pretty complicated, especially with multiple kids)… You’re being ridiculous.

The reality is: It can be really hard to have two full time working parents and multiple kids, even (gasp!) school age kids! I am not ashamed to admit that I reached a point where I just couldn’t handle it all anymore, and more importantly, I didn’t WANT to handle it all anymore.

DP and I don't understand your reaction here. Read the post again. It sounds to me like they are criticizing your old employer, not you. Saying that if they (your employer) were truly accommodating, you wouldn't have felt that things like snow days caused chaos.

I continue to work full-time but agree that kids' schedules cause a lot of stress when you are trying to balance everything. The truth is that there are vanishingly few employers in the US who are truly family friendly.

No I fully understand that they were criticizing my employer. However, I had already stated in no uncertain terms that my employer treated me wonderfully. So this person was trying to explain to me why I am wrong and why I don’t understand my own life or situation as well as she does. I find that quite condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

I work in international development. I took a year off with each baby. After my first, I came to the office with my daughter at 10 every day and she took her morning nap at the onsite day care, or if she was off schedule she slept in my office. I had my meetings scheduled between 10-11:30. At noon we nursed again, went for a walk (sometimes with a colleague, sometimes just us) and at one she played on the floor in my office. Form 2-3:30 she took her afternoon nap and I took a second meeting if needed. At four we went home. I did programmatic calls after she went to bed at 8 (actually seen as super accommodating when working with overseas colleagues) and before she woke up. I never stopped working full time but I’m sure there were days I put in fewer than eight hours as there were days I put in more than eight. When she dropped her morning nap I had to move my day around again, and at 2 she started preschool (I know there’s debate— some will say daycare— I don’t mind what you call it but it’s an accredited preschool).

When she was 13M she and my husband came with me to Thailand and Singapore on my first post-baby business trip and she and my dad came with me to Europe when she was 2. Her brother was a COVID baby and so no travel for him until he was 2, but he also spent every waking moment with me because we went fully remote. Our whole family went to Europe again this winter and my dad will join us for a trip to South America in the spring (I hope).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

+1 is this a FT job? I also assume you weren't paid or receiving benefits for the entirety of your leave.

Yes I received full pay and benefits for all of my leave, which was a combination of “regular” parental leave and banked leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

I left my career in which I was happy, accommodated, valued, and relatively highly paid. But I couldn’t handle the lifestyle anymore of juggling that career while having three kids, one in daycare and two in before and after care, not to mention the chaos of summer camps and school breaks and snow days. We were all stressed and no one was happy at home. I miss my job sometimes, but my kids are so much happier that so far it’s been worth the sacrifice. I can always go back to work later, when we can all handle it better.

If things like snow days and school breaks are chaos then no, you’re not being accommodated. Some jobs just can’t— ER docs, nurses, etc.— but in 2024 a job that is done at a desk isn’t a matter of life and death, and a couple snow days per winter and breaks known about a year in advance should pose 0 hardship for a well organized employer. The other kind is who people leave.

Hmmm… I am in a better position than you to understand and speak to how I was treated by my employer. Have you never had a presentation or important meeting the same day as your spouse, and then whoops now a kid is sick or it’s a snow day! And school breaks add up to MONTHS out of the year (you know summer break is a thing right? and planning for, booking, and then doing the daily drop off and pick ups can get pretty complicated, especially with multiple kids)… You’re being ridiculous.

The reality is: It can be really hard to have two full time working parents and multiple kids, even (gasp!) school age kids! I am not ashamed to admit that I reached a point where I just couldn’t handle it all anymore, and more importantly, I didn’t WANT to handle it all anymore.

DP and I don't understand your reaction here. Read the post again. It sounds to me like they are criticizing your old employer, not you. Saying that if they (your employer) were truly accommodating, you wouldn't have felt that things like snow days caused chaos.

I continue to work full-time but agree that kids' schedules cause a lot of stress when you are trying to balance everything. The truth is that there are vanishingly few employers in the US who are truly family friendly.

No I fully understand that they were criticizing my employer. However, I had already stated in no uncertain terms that my employer treated me wonderfully. So this person was trying to explain to me why I am wrong and why I don’t understand my own life or situation as well as she does. I find that quite condescending.

You also stated in no uncertain terms that you weren’t in charge and there was a ton of politics and BS. So which was it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

I work in international development. I took a year off with each baby. After my first, I came to the office with my daughter at 10 every day and she took her morning nap at the onsite day care, or if she was off schedule she slept in my office. I had my meetings scheduled between 10-11:30. At noon we nursed again, went for a walk (sometimes with a colleague, sometimes just us) and at one she played on the floor in my office. Form 2-3:30 she took her afternoon nap and I took a second meeting if needed. At four we went home. I did programmatic calls after she went to bed at 8 (actually seen as super accommodating when working with overseas colleagues) and before she woke up. I never stopped working full time but I’m sure there were days I put in fewer than eight hours as there were days I put in more than eight. When she dropped her morning nap I had to move my day around again, and at 2 she started preschool (I know there’s debate— some will say daycare— I don’t mind what you call it but it’s an accredited preschool).

When she was 13M she and my husband came with me to Thailand and Singapore on my first post-baby business trip and she and my dad came with me to Europe when she was 2. Her brother was a COVID baby and so no travel for him until he was 2, but he also spent every waking moment with me because we went fully remote. Our whole family went to Europe again this winter and my dad will join us for a trip to South America in the spring (I hope).

honestly, this sounds a little ridiculous. i mean i can believe that that you had days like this, but the way you describe it defies credulity. the only way any of this is possible if your dad is some kind of trustee or something at this organization. no way a random mom is going to take two calls a day for many months and call it full time.

[Anonymous]

I think people who are content with their life are fortunate. Being content is a wonderful feeling.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest since you requested it OP.

I have a low opinion of parents who do not even want to be the primary caregiver for their children when they are infants and toddlers. I think prioritizing material things and one's own career and self-fulfillment is selfish and indicates a lack of understanding of how important it is for young children to spend most of their time with someone who loves them completely and unconditionally.

A little off of your topic but completely relevant.

When I’m meeting someone who doesn’t work outside the house I am usually bracing for a comment like this, since they are handed out freely with out care for any of the reasons some one might have chosen to work. I have no other thoughts about their choices- how would I know better for them than they do for themselves?

What if I love my work and feel passionately about it and what it does for society, and chose to work even if I don't 'have' to -- do you think those people are less-than parents, too?

I don’t think SAHMs are leaving jobs like this, they’re leaving dead-end menial work. People who are happy and accommodated and valued stay.

I left my career in which I was happy, accommodated, valued, and relatively highly paid. But I couldn’t handle the lifestyle anymore of juggling that career while having three kids, one in daycare and two in before and after care, not to mention the chaos of summer camps and school breaks and snow days. We were all stressed and no one was happy at home. I miss my job sometimes, but my kids are so much happier that so far it’s been worth the sacrifice. I can always go back to work later, when we can all handle it better.

If things like snow days and school breaks are chaos then no, you’re not being accommodated. Some jobs just can’t— ER docs, nurses, etc.— but in 2024 a job that is done at a desk isn’t a matter of life and death, and a couple snow days per winter and breaks known about a year in advance should pose 0 hardship for a well organized employer. The other kind is who people leave.

Hmmm… I am in a better position than you to understand and speak to how I was treated by my employer. Have you never had a presentation or important meeting the same day as your spouse, and then whoops now a kid is sick or it’s a snow day! And school breaks add up to MONTHS out of the year (you know summer break is a thing right? and planning for, booking, and then doing the daily drop off and pick ups can get pretty complicated, especially with multiple kids)… You’re being ridiculous.

The reality is: It can be really hard to have two full time working parents and multiple kids, even (gasp!) school age kids! I am not ashamed to admit that I reached a point where I just couldn’t handle it all anymore, and more importantly, I didn’t WANT to handle it all anymore.

DP and I don't understand your reaction here. Read the post again. It sounds to me like they are criticizing your old employer, not you. Saying that if they (your employer) were truly accommodating, you wouldn't have felt that things like snow days caused chaos.

I continue to work full-time but agree that kids' schedules cause a lot of stress when you are trying to balance everything. The truth is that there are vanishingly few employers in the US who are truly family friendly.

No I fully understand that they were criticizing my employer. However, I had already stated in no uncertain terms that my employer treated me wonderfully. So this person was trying to explain to me why I am wrong and why I don’t understand my own life or situation as well as she does. I find that quite condescending.

You also stated in no uncertain terms that you weren’t in charge and there was a ton of politics and BS. So which was it?

I most certainly did not. Re-read the quoted thread here. You are confusing me with a different poster.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for people who didn’t have options.

My job let me take a year of maternity leave per baby, promoted me while I was on maternity leave, empowers my flexible schedule so my babies spend nearly every waking minute with me until preschool, and has provided my children (and parent, and sometimes spouse) with incredible opportunities for foreign travel and enrichment. It adds to our family life. The women in my family tend to have that kind of jobs where the work is enriching to the family. The men tend to work in roles that are more “grind” (ex my husband is in finance my FIL is an attorney)

I don’t think less of women who leave menial jobs to stay home. I feel for women who leave jobs they love and which are truly meaningful because they have no choice. But if I was choosing between menial office work that didn’t benefit my family I don’t see staying at home as a service-provider to be necessarily a worse choice?

I'm really curious what this job is. And by flexible schedule to spend every waking minute with your children, did that mean working part-time? I don't care how flexible your job is, fitting in 8 solid hours of work while simultaneously being a fulltime caregiver for toddlers sounds impractical/exhausting. Maybe I'm just really poor at multitasking, lol.

I work in international development. I took a year off with each baby. After my first, I came to the office with my daughter at 10 every day and she took her morning nap at the onsite day care, or if she was off schedule she slept in my office. I had my meetings scheduled between 10-11:30. At noon we nursed again, went for a walk (sometimes with a colleague, sometimes just us) and at one she played on the floor in my office. Form 2-3:30 she took her afternoon nap and I took a second meeting if needed. At four we went home. I did programmatic calls after she went to bed at 8 (actually seen as super accommodating when working with overseas colleagues) and before she woke up. I never stopped working full time but I’m sure there were days I put in fewer than eight hours as there were days I put in more than eight. When she dropped her morning nap I had to move my day around again, and at 2 she started preschool (I know there’s debate— some will say daycare— I don’t mind what you call it but it’s an accredited preschool).

When she was 13M she and my husband came with me to Thailand and Singapore on my first post-baby business trip and she and my dad came with me to Europe when she was 2. Her brother was a COVID baby and so no travel for him until he was 2, but he also spent every waking moment with me because we went fully remote. Our whole family went to Europe again this winter and my dad will join us for a trip to South America in the spring (I hope).

honestly, this sounds a little ridiculous. i mean i can believe that that you had days like this, but the way you describe it defies credulity. the only way any of this is possible if your dad is some kind of trustee or something at this organization. no way a random mom is going to take two calls a day for many months and call it full time.

Agreed. This doesn’t sound like a real job, although I’m sure she has a title like VP of something or other and makes more money than I ever will.