Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What in your view is "essential"?

I'm not that PP. As a general matter the school related things recently mentioned - not involving cookies and gifts - are presumed essential. Holiday celebrations depend. Essential is relative. Essential is what you can do without significant mental stress and extreme resentment. If for whatever reason your mental load is an issue, and delegating is not an option, your holiday festivity obligations become non-essential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t feel pressure to be beautiful around the holidays.

This isn't doing any favors for the "essential labor" parents here.

No one will blame me if the holidays are not sufficiently magical.

This has to be a troll.

Ironically me being “beautiful” (long!!! Hair is essential, maintain weight, dress moderately well in figure flattering clothes tasteful makeup) would probably be the item on that list my husband would consider most essential for me to do, after the sex related ones. But I actually don’t mind that because I also like to look nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t feel pressure to be beautiful around the holidays.

This isn't doing any favors for the "essential labor" parents here.

No one will blame me if the holidays are not sufficiently magical.

This has to be a troll.

Ironically me being “beautiful” (long!!! Hair is essential, maintain weight, dress moderately well in figure flattering clothes tasteful makeup) would probably be the item on that list my husband would consider most essential for me to do, after the sex related ones. But I actually don’t mind that because I also like to look nice.

But somehow it should take the same amount of time as a quick scrub with a body wash/1:2 shampoo that he does. Hmm

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This is because MEN DON’T CARE about this pointless make-work pissing contest that WOMEN initiate and WOMEN expect other WOMEN to engage in! Even if you ask your husband if he thinks it’s important and he says “yes” he probably doesn’t. You can test this by not doing it - if he doesn’t do it himself, it’s because he simply DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP.

DP

The school related things PP mentioned is not make work. Neglecting cookies for teachers is different; this isn’t prompting CPS.

BS. She’s exaggerating the importance and/or challenge of every task she listed. I don’t work the school - it’s not my job to make sure they have adequate chaperones, for example. “Disseminating info about aftercare” - WTF does that actually mean? “Administrative deadlines”? Just sign the form, it takes two seconds. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This is because MEN DON’T CARE about this pointless make-work pissing contest that WOMEN initiate and WOMEN expect other WOMEN to engage in! Even if you ask your husband if he thinks it’s important and he says “yes” he probably doesn’t. You can test this by not doing it - if he doesn’t do it himself, it’s because he simply DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP.

DP

The school related things PP mentioned is not make work. Neglecting cookies for teachers is different; this isn’t prompting CPS.

BS. She’s exaggerating the importance and/or challenge of every task she listed. I don’t work the school - it’s not my job to make sure they have adequate chaperones, for example. “Disseminating info about aftercare” - WTF does that actually mean? “Administrative deadlines”? Just sign the form, it takes two seconds. Etc.

If they’re all so easy, why can’t dad manage it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

These are kids who are 2 years from attending college. In many cases, a $$$$$ college. The fact that you exempt the student from responsibility here shows the issue - you do not understand who owns what responsibility. If your 16 year old cannot sign up for the SAT, you have been doing too much.

I'm not saying the parent is fully responsible. I'm saying the parent has a responsibility to ensure the child has what they need to complete the task. Maybe that's nothing. Maybe that's next-to-nothing. It's at least an on-call event for the parent.

On-call event is a big difference than signing the kid up. Which is it? And by the way, on-call event sounds like basic parenting of teens. Are you saying some of your husbands don’t even do that?

I just said parents "have responsibility" here. I was not intending that to mean the responsibility must always involve signing up.

What is a parent’s responsibility with regard to the SAT? And did either of your parents carry that responsibility?

All already answered this: on-call if needed. My parents were not needed, but available if needed.

+1.

I grew up abroad, and 15 year olds researched the U.S SATs, found study materials and registration information. All parents needed to do was pay.

After taking the SATs, these kids researched U.S schools, applications and visa letters, visa requirements/appointments. All parents did was provide bank information.

I mean, I did that in the US in the 90s. The world has changed since then and people are not willing to let their kids sink.

The world has changed because people with anxiety disorders are loud in their conviction that everyone has to be as neurotic and crazy as they are.

Even more to the point, people are using their "disorders" to get accommodations to get a leg up in testing and college admissions. This is the sort of "change" that mommy needs to ensure is handled to keep DC "competitive". This is what is meant by "sign them up for the SAT".

Must keep up those UMC standards!

I was the one who initially said something about signing my son up for the SAT. I was checking my email while looking at DCUM, and I got an email from the school with a link to sign up my sophomore for the SAT in February, so I signed him up.

DH got the same email and didn’t even open it.

Some of you come from some pretty dysfunctional families. I forget how lucky I am to have the parents I did.

You're kind of proving the point. Your husband saw the email and thought "sophomore doesn't need to take the SAT yet", but you the snowplow parent went right on ahead (probably without even consulting DC)!!! Moreover, you readily admit how trivial this act is because you did it while scrolling DCUM and yet you go on about how much of a "burden" it is also. And now you are patting yourself on the back lol.

Not the PP, but sophomores do take the PSAT, which is what the poster probably meant.

And, in addition to being a good opportunity for student to practice (p part of psat) the Sat without affecting their future scores, the PSAT is also used for several scholarship awards.

Not taking it when it’s easily available, while not a disaster, is definitely a huge missed opportunity for someone who plans to go to college.

Someone who plans to go to college shouldn’t need mommy to sign up for them. I’m sure the kid is made aware of the sign up process at school. JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This is because MEN DON’T CARE about this pointless make-work pissing contest that WOMEN initiate and WOMEN expect other WOMEN to engage in! Even if you ask your husband if he thinks it’s important and he says “yes” he probably doesn’t. You can test this by not doing it - if he doesn’t do it himself, it’s because he simply DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP.

DP

The school related things PP mentioned is not make work. Neglecting cookies for teachers is different; this isn’t prompting CPS.

BS. She’s exaggerating the importance and/or challenge of every task she listed. I don’t work the school - it’s not my job to make sure they have adequate chaperones, for example. “Disseminating info about aftercare” - WTF does that actually mean? “Administrative deadlines”? Just sign the form, it takes two seconds. Etc.

If they’re all so easy, why can’t dad manage it?

I’m sure he can. But martyr mom gets to it first because she just loves the opportunity to whine and complain about how tough her life is because little Timmy said “mom, can you sign my permission slip?” when he gets home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it OP. We got an email about the "class gift" for one of my kids teachers earlier this week and they haven't sent the money yet because last week I did the money for the PTA fund, the money for the fund to give bonuses to specials teachers, I write thank you cards for each of my kids' EC coaches, and I ordered photo books for both sets of grandparents featuring highlights from their visits with our kids this year.

DH also got the class gift email. He also has Venmo.

If I asked him to do it, he would. He'd also be bewildered -- why ask when it's just a minute in my phone to do it? But it's not really about this one task. So instead i'm sitting on it and feeling resentful, and in the back of my head I'm thinking how the class mom is likely annoyed at me and others who haven't contributed yet, and that's fair because she's going above and beyond in organizing, and yet no one is annoyed with my husband. Except me.

The difference in expectations for moms and dads is vast.

Self imposed expectations seem to be at least part of the issue in a lot of these situations.

Just relax, take a deep breath.

None of the stuff you mentioned is critical. If you are doing things like writing thank you cards and making photo albums it should be done out of love. If you don’t love doing it, if it makes u cranky then just stop. I haven’t written thank you notes to any of my kids coaches and it seems fine.

It is done out of genuine appreciation for my kids' teachers and coaches, and the photo albums are done out of love for my parents and ILs and a desire to support the connection they have to our kids. Donating to school funds is an obligation but I do think it matters -- we can afford to donate something, and I have been in fundraising positions before and know freeloaders are a challenge, so I try to be conscientious towards others when they are fundraising in ways that benefit me and my family.

I'm also fine donating to the fund for the class gift. I'm grateful to the class mom for sorting that out and much prefer a class gift to the awkwardness of some people giving gifts and others not and it just not being clear what is appropriate.

I don't resent the tasks. Also, if you asked my husband if we should do any or all of these things, he'd say yes. He'd say they are important ways to contribute to our community and that the photo books for grandparents are appreciated more than other gifts we give them. But he will never, ever take the initiative to do any of these things. Worse than that, he'd claim it is beyond him. He would never write thank you notes because he has terrible handwriting. He won't donate to the different funds because he will say he has no idea how much to give or what's appropriate and he'd want me to decide. He'd claim that organizing photos for the photo books and loading them into the program to get them printed is just beyond him.

Are these things essential parts of life? No, of course not. If we were struggling for money or overwhelmed with other life events, I wouldn't do any of them. But we're not. "We" can do them. And when "we" do these things, it generates good will in our family and community, it gives my kids a sense of pride and belonging when they are aware of these things, it helps the teachers and coaches and grandparents in our lives feel appreciated and recognized. These are good things. But if I don't do them, they won't happen.

DP this is a different matter as you are not resentful.

If your mental health was compromised, that's a problem; it's appropriate in that circumstance to identity what can be changed to improve mental health.

I think this person IS resentful. Not of the tasks, but of her husband’s persistent expectation that she’ll handle all of them even though they’re things he also cares about.

Bingo.

I don't do tasks I don't think matter but I get annoyed when I do tasks my spouse and I both agree matter but he never does them and just waits for me to do them. So I'm never thinking "ugh, why do I have to give money to the room parent for a gift?" because I know why and am fine with it, but I do think "why doesn't DH ever take the initiative on this? especially when, if I ask, he'll agree it's something we should do?"

Right?
DH is not sending the Venmo for the teacher gifts, but he’s also not signing the older kids up for the SAT. All of the kid admin stuff is on me.

Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

Yes yes. Go on the college forum with this nonsense.

Nonsense? making my kids who take the SAT responsible for signing up? I also think the folks who project manage applications are ridiculous. But it highlights that there are posters who are controlling, if that’s what you intended.

Yeah. Sure. Tell your kids to sign up for the SAT prep course themselves, using money they earn from the job that they got and ride their bikes to without any input from you and the credit card they got from a bank that gives credit to 15 year olds.

Good luck with that!!

Your kid picks a class that works for time and budget. Then uses your credit card. I have high schoolers and am well aware of how it works. But keep on coddling the kids who are going to leave the house in a couple years and spending a lot of money to do so. I want to make sure they can handle the bare minimum (which this is) before they head out.

Whatever.
Use whatever excuse you want to in order to avoid interacting with your own kids.

DP, but it sounds like you’re raising the future spouse(s) y’all complain about…

+1000

Then some poor idiot will marry him and start whining about UMC standards that she has to uphold. The cycle continues!

Exactly. Everyone doing so much they resent their do-nothing spouse is part of the problem and raising the next round.

[Anonymous]

My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

Why? If you have all your needs satisfied why change anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

Why? If you have all your needs satisfied why change anything?

He apparently has utter contempt for his wife who he thinks nags him about her mental load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I joke about DW’s “mental load” all the time. (In fact DW sounds very much like one of you, I’d give it 50-50.)

Men — remember you have options. I know cheating is bad and I swore I would never do it but honestly it makes the whinging kind of funny to listen to. In a dark but satisfying way.

You’re probably a troll, but in case you’re not, just literally get a divorce.

Why? If you have all your needs satisfied why change anything?

He apparently has utter contempt for his wife who he thinks nags him about her mental load.

That is correct. This “arrangement” has definitely relieved my mental load. Ironically, I find it easier to listen to her now. I think she has noticed this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.