Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

And you knew this when you married him. How was his father? Did you think he was magically going to be different from the way you and he were brought up? You chose to marry him and accept this.

No, I didn’t. There wasn’t much at all to plan. Before we kids we didn’t need to contribute to holiday gifts, sign up for swim lessons so our child doesn’t drown, sign up for aftercare, etc. I’m handling 10-15 admin tasks each week related to kids. Pre kids we were equals.

Yes you did. You chose to be in denial. Who were your role models as far as marriage was concerned? Which couples did you look at and go "I want my marriage to be like theirs"? Did you investigate his family's dynamics? Did you take a step back and look at yours? What did you put in place to avoid the obvious?

You had all the evidence about what was going to happen based on what was happening around you, but you chose to take his word for it. Why don't you take your employer's word that they will pay you a fair salary? Why do you sign an offer letter with your salary and benefits?

You wanted marriage and children more than you wanted an equal mental load, so you did not bother to properly bargain/negotiate and put provisions in place for these things. Now that you have gotten what you wanted, you are now focused on things that were not so important at the time.

That’s not what’s going on here and you know it.

The guy naively said yeah I want kids, I want to be a father, I want to own a house, I want to be married, I want to do all these adult things.

Then when these adult things arrived, he shrunk back, avoided doing them and ruined his marriage and family.

How do you define adult things, and again which marriages are you modeling? Which husbands did you see doing "adult" things when you were growing up?

You need married with kids adult things defined? Well there’s an underlying big problem.

Maintain property in good shape.
Emotional support of all family members
Health, wellness, and nutrition for all family members
Teaching life skills, parenting and disciplining children
Planning, selection and logistics of family and kid activities.
Educational support and tracking for kids.
Age and weather appreciate clothing and gear for family
Extended family and community socializing and holiday traditions.
Help provide a foundation in ones faith and beliefs
Household financial mgmt- saving, investing, paying bills and taxes.

And yes my father and brothers do all of the above plus worked fulltime. But it was always clear, they would stop their work to answer a child or adult child’s matters. They had friend groups, lifelong sports, hosted July 4th and Xmas parties. Very full and well rounded lives.

NP. That’s a unicorn family. Many of us were born when men couldn’t be in the birthing room. Many of us also grew up with abusive and/or neglectful fathers and mothers.

Your presenting that as the norm is really damaging.

You presenting parents as abusive and/or neglectful as the norm is really damaging. If you don't know that is *not* the norm, please seek therapy.

What that PP is trying to say is most of the fathers today are much better fathers than those from a generation or two ago. The problem, is for better or for worse, parents have decided to do much more than parents did a two generations ago so the increased efforts are still not measuring up.

So then don’t do the extra. Why are parents deciding to do more than they did generations ago if they can’t handle it? Know what you can handle and drop the rest.

Screens and iPhone sitters can also help nowadays! For any age child! No need to make any activities or arrangements. ObamaPhones are feee too!

14+ hours of screen time a day work well for Dads too, check it out!

Says the mom scrolling DCUM all day…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can see how someone from a family with no mental disorders or deadweight males may think a dude with a good job, education, fun dates, SAHM mom history, and says he wants a family would work out.

Most people revert back to their mothers and fathers good or bad behaviors once kids arrive.

You can see that because most women value education and fun dates more than they value mental load. There are billions of studies discussing how married women are carrying the an unfair amount of household responsibilities, and intelligent educated women are choosing over and over again to focus on fun dates, high income and education in choosing a DH.

Why don't they marry 18 year olds and take their word on how these 18 year olds intend to be doctors, engineers, lawyers, scientist etc? Why wait until a man is clearly on the "right" path before agreeing to marry him? When stuff matters, young women don't take men's word: they want evidence such as already in grad school at some Ivy League school etc. Why is a man's word that he go 50-50 enough when it comes to mental load while there is ample evidence that he will not?

Cool.
Let’s see how you test and judge the “mental load of a 25 yo male outside of work. How?

Then don't marry 25 year olds.

Your theory of "it's your fault for marrying men, it's your fault for having kids, it's your fault for wanting Christmas presents and thinking you can have a job" is insane.

It's your fault for refusing for being incapable of reflection. The rest is not your fault. It's not your DH's fault either.

My husband is an involved parent and I have no complaints about that. But even in the years in which he wasn't, I never regretted having kids or a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a rant my DW would write but what she wouldn’t include is that I take care of our kids while she travels for work without issue and without help at home; pull in 500k per year and am an active parent and participant in the marriage. She also won’t tell you that she has a good sex life and her husband doesn’t drink or use drugs. She’s just pissed off that she has to work and also is the default parent.

I feel really bad that your wife has to have sex with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see how someone from a family with no mental disorders or deadweight males may think a dude with a good job, education, fun dates, SAHM mom history, and says he wants a family would work out.

Most people revert back to their mothers and fathers good or bad behaviors once kids arrive.

You can see that because most women value education and fun dates more than they value mental load. There are billions of studies discussing how married women are carrying the an unfair amount of household responsibilities, and intelligent educated women are choosing over and over again to focus on fun dates, high income and education in choosing a DH.

Why don't they marry 18 year olds and take their word on how these 18 year olds intend to be doctors, engineers, lawyers, scientist etc? Why wait until a man is clearly on the "right" path before agreeing to marry him? When stuff matters, young women don't take men's word: they want evidence such as already in grad school at some Ivy League school etc. Why is a man's word that he go 50-50 enough when it comes to mental load while there is ample evidence that he will not?

Cool.
Let’s see how you test and judge the “mental load of a 25 yo male outside of work. How?

I don’t know. This stuff is so weird. I married my husband because he is my best friend and he makes me laugh. Not because he was the best applicant for the job of roommate/coparent.
Honestly, if he wasn’t my best friend, the fact that he just left me to struggle and fail at this stuff wouldn’t be so painful.

Either he is not your best friend or you are asking the impossible from him and from yourself. Pick one.

Well, if he felt like I was asking the impossible from him and from myself, it would be nice if he would say that and tell me that I don’t have to do it. Instead, he just acts vaguely annoyed that I didn’t just do it on my own or that he has to be involved.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

Perhaps that's your experience but it isn't mine at all.

Same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see how someone from a family with no mental disorders or deadweight males may think a dude with a good job, education, fun dates, SAHM mom history, and says he wants a family would work out.

Most people revert back to their mothers and fathers good or bad behaviors once kids arrive.

You can see that because most women value education and fun dates more than they value mental load. There are billions of studies discussing how married women are carrying the an unfair amount of household responsibilities, and intelligent educated women are choosing over and over again to focus on fun dates, high income and education in choosing a DH.

Why don't they marry 18 year olds and take their word on how these 18 year olds intend to be doctors, engineers, lawyers, scientist etc? Why wait until a man is clearly on the "right" path before agreeing to marry him? When stuff matters, young women don't take men's word: they want evidence such as already in grad school at some Ivy League school etc. Why is a man's word that he go 50-50 enough when it comes to mental load while there is ample evidence that he will not?

Cool.
Let’s see how you test and judge the “mental load of a 25 yo male outside of work. How?

Is this a serious question? Please tell me it’s not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

I will give you examples: These women do the following: finding daycare or after school care for the kids, finding swim classes, finding babysitters to cover if DH has to travel. When DW has to travel, it is still DW finding care, finding therapist for developmental delays and scheduling and attending appointments for visits with specialists, getting kids ready for school and out the door in the mornings, helping with homework, organizing birthday parties, 100 % cooking, scheduling all annual check ups, cleaning the house, finding plumbers, electricians etc when something goes bad, holiday events, budgeting, etc.

In these cases, the men are in charge of some of the driving when told what to do, laundry for one of them, yard work or snow plowing. In one example the guy would only maintain his own car while im the other the guy maintains both cars.

Again this is not my personal experience, but these are things women around me complain about. And they are not lying since I am close enough to them to see the dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

And you knew this when you married him. How was his father? Did you think he was magically going to be different from the way you and he were brought up? You chose to marry him and accept this.

No, I didn’t. There wasn’t much at all to plan. Before we kids we didn’t need to contribute to holiday gifts, sign up for swim lessons so our child doesn’t drown, sign up for aftercare, etc. I’m handling 10-15 admin tasks each week related to kids. Pre kids we were equals.

Yes you did. You chose to be in denial. Who were your role models as far as marriage was concerned? Which couples did you look at and go "I want my marriage to be like theirs"? Did you investigate his family's dynamics? Did you take a step back and look at yours? What did you put in place to avoid the obvious?

You had all the evidence about what was going to happen based on what was happening around you, but you chose to take his word for it. Why don't you take your employer's word that they will pay you a fair salary? Why do you sign an offer letter with your salary and benefits?

You wanted marriage and children more than you wanted an equal mental load, so you did not bother to properly bargain/negotiate and put provisions in place for these things. Now that you have gotten what you wanted, you are now focused on things that were not so important at the time.

That’s not what’s going on here and you know it.

The guy naively said yeah I want kids, I want to be a father, I want to own a house, I want to be married, I want to do all these adult things.

Then when these adult things arrived, he shrunk back, avoided doing them and ruined his marriage and family.

How do you define adult things, and again which marriages are you modeling? Which husbands did you see doing "adult" things when you were growing up?

You need married with kids adult things defined? Well there’s an underlying big problem.

Maintain property in good shape.
Emotional support of all family members
Health, wellness, and nutrition for all family members
Teaching life skills, parenting and disciplining children
Planning, selection and logistics of family and kid activities.
Educational support and tracking for kids.
Age and weather appreciate clothing and gear for family
Extended family and community socializing and holiday traditions.
Help provide a foundation in ones faith and beliefs
Household financial mgmt- saving, investing, paying bills and taxes.

And yes my father and brothers do all of the above plus worked fulltime. But it was always clear, they would stop their work to answer a child or adult child’s matters. They had friend groups, lifelong sports, hosted July 4th and Xmas parties. Very full and well rounded lives.

NP. That’s a unicorn family. Many of us were born when men couldn’t be in the birthing room. Many of us also grew up with abusive and/or neglectful fathers and mothers.

Your presenting that as the norm is really damaging.

You presenting parents as abusive and/or neglectful as the norm is really damaging. If you don't know that is *not* the norm, please seek therapy.

What that PP is trying to say is most of the fathers today are much better fathers than those from a generation or two ago. The problem, is for better or for worse, parents have decided to do much more than parents did a two generations ago so the increased efforts are still not measuring up.

So then don’t do the extra. Why are parents deciding to do more than they did generations ago if they can’t handle it? Know what you can handle and drop the rest.

You can’t go back in time.
I can decide that I want my kids to go to school in a one room schoolhouse and only have two dresses or that I’m going to my eight year old run outside and play with the neighbors after school and want nothing more than a new bike or a BB gun, but the world doesn’t really work like that anymore.
You have to live in reality.

People are talking about the amount of parenting that happened in 1998, not Little House on the Prairie.

And your eight year old can play outside after school. Mine does. That's reality.

Honestly, you don’t even have to go back to 1998. You could go back to 2015 and things were easier. If teachers or coaches wanted parents to know something, they told the kids and made sure they knew to tell their parents. Maybe once a week they sent home a note in their folder from school.
Now if teachers or coaches want the kids to know something, they send an email home to the parents or post it on TroopTrack or progressbook or schoology or Remind ir sports engine and rely on the parents to tell the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

Trust, the women complaining about being the default parent would be overjoyed to have your situation.

With my ex, I did literally everything, fro assembling the entire baby nursery by myself to the finances to every doctor appointment to all childcare details to coordinating all household repairs and services to the yard work and on and on. Lol at the clothes - that is literally the last thing he would ever think about unless it directly impacted him (like DS needed hiking pants for a vacation he wanted to take him on).

The only thing my ex did was: some additional childcare and housework in the newborn phase; take out the trash weekly; split school drop off and pick up (but only because I drew a very hard boundary and enforced this for the sake of keeping my job). He would show up to spend time with DS when he felt like it - sometimes going days without seeing the kid. He cooked dinners once or twice a week at first but in the last few years not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

And you knew this when you married him. How was his father? Did you think he was magically going to be different from the way you and he were brought up? You chose to marry him and accept this.

No, I didn’t. There wasn’t much at all to plan. Before we kids we didn’t need to contribute to holiday gifts, sign up for swim lessons so our child doesn’t drown, sign up for aftercare, etc. I’m handling 10-15 admin tasks each week related to kids. Pre kids we were equals.

Yes you did. You chose to be in denial. Who were your role models as far as marriage was concerned? Which couples did you look at and go "I want my marriage to be like theirs"? Did you investigate his family's dynamics? Did you take a step back and look at yours? What did you put in place to avoid the obvious?

You had all the evidence about what was going to happen based on what was happening around you, but you chose to take his word for it. Why don't you take your employer's word that they will pay you a fair salary? Why do you sign an offer letter with your salary and benefits?

You wanted marriage and children more than you wanted an equal mental load, so you did not bother to properly bargain/negotiate and put provisions in place for these things. Now that you have gotten what you wanted, you are now focused on things that were not so important at the time.

That’s not what’s going on here and you know it.

The guy naively said yeah I want kids, I want to be a father, I want to own a house, I want to be married, I want to do all these adult things.

Then when these adult things arrived, he shrunk back, avoided doing them and ruined his marriage and family.

How do you define adult things, and again which marriages are you modeling? Which husbands did you see doing "adult" things when you were growing up?

You need married with kids adult things defined? Well there’s an underlying big problem.

Maintain property in good shape.
Emotional support of all family members
Health, wellness, and nutrition for all family members
Teaching life skills, parenting and disciplining children
Planning, selection and logistics of family and kid activities.
Educational support and tracking for kids.
Age and weather appreciate clothing and gear for family
Extended family and community socializing and holiday traditions.
Help provide a foundation in ones faith and beliefs
Household financial mgmt- saving, investing, paying bills and taxes.

And yes my father and brothers do all of the above plus worked fulltime. But it was always clear, they would stop their work to answer a child or adult child’s matters. They had friend groups, lifelong sports, hosted July 4th and Xmas parties. Very full and well rounded lives.

NP. That’s a unicorn family. Many of us were born when men couldn’t be in the birthing room. Many of us also grew up with abusive and/or neglectful fathers and mothers.

Your presenting that as the norm is really damaging.

You presenting parents as abusive and/or neglectful as the norm is really damaging. If you don't know that is *not* the norm, please seek therapy.

What that PP is trying to say is most of the fathers today are much better fathers than those from a generation or two ago. The problem, is for better or for worse, parents have decided to do much more than parents did a two generations ago so the increased efforts are still not measuring up.

So then don’t do the extra. Why are parents deciding to do more than they did generations ago if they can’t handle it? Know what you can handle and drop the rest.

You can’t go back in time.
I can decide that I want my kids to go to school in a one room schoolhouse and only have two dresses or that I’m going to my eight year old run outside and play with the neighbors after school and want nothing more than a new bike or a BB gun, but the world doesn’t really work like that anymore.
You have to live in reality.

People are talking about the amount of parenting that happened in 1998, not Little House on the Prairie.

And your eight year old can play outside after school. Mine does. That's reality.

Honestly, you don’t even have to go back to 1998. You could go back to 2015 and things were easier. If teachers or coaches wanted parents to know something, they told the kids and made sure they knew to tell their parents. Maybe once a week they sent home a note in their folder from school.
Now if teachers or coaches want the kids to know something, they send an email home to the parents or post it on TroopTrack or progressbook or schoology or Remind ir sports engine and rely on the parents to tell the kids.

Lol this is so true. School communication is so f*&#ed at this point, I think it's breaking my brain. But if you complain, everyone yells at you for not managing the 14 different messaging and tracking apps well enough.

My DD takes dance classes at a school that does not use apps. They communicate directly to kids, who tell us things, and then send ONE email once a month, always on the same day, that includes important dates and info as a backup for Amy kid who doesn't reliably report.

Luckily DD loves dance but even if she didn't I feel like I would send her to this school until she she's out because I do appreciate just knowing what's happening with minimal drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

Trust, the women complaining about being the default parent would be overjoyed to have your situation.

With my ex, I did literally everything, fro assembling the entire baby nursery by myself to the finances to every doctor appointment to all childcare details to coordinating all household repairs and services to the yard work and on and on. Lol at the clothes - that is literally the last thing he would ever think about unless it directly impacted him (like DS needed hiking pants for a vacation he wanted to take him on).

The only thing my ex did was: some additional childcare and housework in the newborn phase; take out the trash weekly; split school drop off and pick up (but only because I drew a very hard boundary and enforced this for the sake of keeping my job). He would show up to spend time with DS when he felt like it - sometimes going days without seeing the kid. He cooked dinners once or twice a week at first but in the last few years not at all.

This. I do 90% of almost everything: kids clothes, school communication, camp, sports and activity stuff, yard work, home maintenance, grocery shopping, vacation planning, cleaning, child care arrangements, pet care, car maintenance, bill paying, taxes. I could go on.

My DH cooks one more day a week than I do and will do things like take out the trash or change a lightbulb *if* I ask him directly (has never initiated these activities on his own).

If he handled 99% (or even 75%) of anything, it would be thrilling to reclaim whatever corner of my brain currently manages it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

Trust, the women complaining about being the default parent would be overjoyed to have your situation.

With my ex, I did literally everything, fro assembling the entire baby nursery by myself to the finances to every doctor appointment to all childcare details to coordinating all household repairs and services to the yard work and on and on. Lol at the clothes - that is literally the last thing he would ever think about unless it directly impacted him (like DS needed hiking pants for a vacation he wanted to take him on).

The only thing my ex did was: some additional childcare and housework in the newborn phase; take out the trash weekly; split school drop off and pick up (but only because I drew a very hard boundary and enforced this for the sake of keeping my job). He would show up to spend time with DS when he felt like it - sometimes going days without seeing the kid. He cooked dinners once or twice a week at first but in the last few years not at all.

This. I do 90% of almost everything: kids clothes, school communication, camp, sports and activity stuff, yard work, home maintenance, grocery shopping, vacation planning, cleaning, child care arrangements, pet care, car maintenance, bill paying, taxes. I could go on.

My DH cooks one more day a week than I do and will do things like take out the trash or change a lightbulb *if* I ask him directly (has never initiated these activities on his own).

If he handled 99% (or even 75%) of anything, it would be thrilling to reclaim whatever corner of my brain currently manages it.

I don't know PP so can't comment on her specifically, but I'm convinced that so many people who post things like this and act like a martyr are just lazy or disorganized, and certainly exaggerating.

Many of those things are really very occasional (e.g., taxes and "car maintenance"). Others are set up once and then rarely need to be changed. And others, like home cleaning can just be accomplished as you go. You see a room that isn't as clean as you'd like, you either ask someone to do it or do it. What "corner of your brain" is being occupied by that? There really should be little "mental load" with most of this stuff.

Now, the actual time it takes to do these things should be shared as much as work hours allow. But that's different than the mental load point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

Trust, the women complaining about being the default parent would be overjoyed to have your situation.

With my ex, I did literally everything, fro assembling the entire baby nursery by myself to the finances to every doctor appointment to all childcare details to coordinating all household repairs and services to the yard work and on and on. Lol at the clothes - that is literally the last thing he would ever think about unless it directly impacted him (like DS needed hiking pants for a vacation he wanted to take him on).

The only thing my ex did was: some additional childcare and housework in the newborn phase; take out the trash weekly; split school drop off and pick up (but only because I drew a very hard boundary and enforced this for the sake of keeping my job). He would show up to spend time with DS when he felt like it - sometimes going days without seeing the kid. He cooked dinners once or twice a week at first but in the last few years not at all.

This. I do 90% of almost everything: kids clothes, school communication, camp, sports and activity stuff, yard work, home maintenance, grocery shopping, vacation planning, cleaning, child care arrangements, pet care, car maintenance, bill paying, taxes. I could go on.

My DH cooks one more day a week than I do and will do things like take out the trash or change a lightbulb *if* I ask him directly (has never initiated these activities on his own).

If he handled 99% (or even 75%) of anything, it would be thrilling to reclaim whatever corner of my brain currently manages it.

I don't know PP so can't comment on her specifically, but I'm convinced that so many people who post things like this and act like a martyr are just lazy or disorganized, and certainly exaggerating.

Many of those things are really very occasional (e.g., taxes and "car maintenance"). Others are set up once and then rarely need to be changed. And others, like home cleaning can just be accomplished as you go. You see a room that isn't as clean as you'd like, you either ask someone to do it or do it. What "corner of your brain" is being occupied by that? There really should be little "mental load" with most of this stuff.

Now, the actual time it takes to do these things should be shared as much as work hours allow. But that's different than the mental load point.

You’re convinced based on what? Yes we know some things don’t take a long time to plan or do like taxes. The issue is when you plan and do ALL the things, and yes, this absolutely happens. And many of the things involving modern life are mostly mental, like finding childcare or planning finances. Count yourself lucky not to be able to picture it.

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Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

My source is I’ve never met a man who is in charge of admin tasks in the home.

I don't know any men who are 100% in charge of the admin tasks but I'd say in most of my friends' marriages (and in my own), we are 50/50 on that stuff. We all read the emails, we all text about things, we all buy the needed things, etc.

+1. I do most of it (I'm a man), but not all. I don't have any dad friends like people talk about on DCUM.

My DH does more than I do, but there are only a few dads like him in my circle of family and friends. And in these instances where the nen do more, the women do a very significant amount of the work. On the other hand, in most of the instances where the women do more than their DHs, the DHs do little.

(a) what work? and (b) what do the men do?

I, a woman, am in charge of 99% of our children's clothes. I could complain about that or I could acknowledge that my husband is 99% responsible for everything electronic in our house. I do all 99% of the laundry. My husband does 99% of the trash and yard and house maintenance. Childcare we do 50/50, same with pet care. The point is, picking ONE THING that you are 99% in charge of is kind of missing the bigger picture here.

Trust, the women complaining about being the default parent would be overjoyed to have your situation.

With my ex, I did literally everything, fro assembling the entire baby nursery by myself to the finances to every doctor appointment to all childcare details to coordinating all household repairs and services to the yard work and on and on. Lol at the clothes - that is literally the last thing he would ever think about unless it directly impacted him (like DS needed hiking pants for a vacation he wanted to take him on).

The only thing my ex did was: some additional childcare and housework in the newborn phase; take out the trash weekly; split school drop off and pick up (but only because I drew a very hard boundary and enforced this for the sake of keeping my job). He would show up to spend time with DS when he felt like it - sometimes going days without seeing the kid. He cooked dinners once or twice a week at first but in the last few years not at all.

This. I do 90% of almost everything: kids clothes, school communication, camp, sports and activity stuff, yard work, home maintenance, grocery shopping, vacation planning, cleaning, child care arrangements, pet care, car maintenance, bill paying, taxes. I could go on.

My DH cooks one more day a week than I do and will do things like take out the trash or change a lightbulb *if* I ask him directly (has never initiated these activities on his own).

If he handled 99% (or even 75%) of anything, it would be thrilling to reclaim whatever corner of my brain currently manages it.

I don't know PP so can't comment on her specifically, but I'm convinced that so many people who post things like this and act like a martyr are just lazy or disorganized, and certainly exaggerating.

Many of those things are really very occasional (e.g., taxes and "car maintenance"). Others are set up once and then rarely need to be changed. And others, like home cleaning can just be accomplished as you go. You see a room that isn't as clean as you'd like, you either ask someone to do it or do it. What "corner of your brain" is being occupied by that? There really should be little "mental load" with most of this stuff.

Now, the actual time it takes to do these things should be shared as much as work hours allow. But that's different than the mental load point.

This is probably true. But there is nothing special about having a uterus that makes me better at organization than my husband. Why should I be in charge of 90% of all of the household stuff? I mean, he can fill out paperwork to register the kids for school or talk to the underwriter about a mortgage.