Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Only take care and spend time with your kids. Outsource absolutely everything else. Get one great housekeeper/house manager and keep your nanny but ask her to do s few more hours.

Our full time housekeeper does everything from errands, to laundry, to picking up dry cleaning, to getting keys made (and other time suck errands), to ordering supplies, to starting our dinner (we are simple eaters). We leave the dinner dishes some nights for her.

I’m also big law and DH has a new and very demanding job. DD is past the nanny stage and we both want to spend every second we have with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

No way are they making 450 a person.
And less than 1% of people entering law end up as partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.

I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.

I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.

We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.

Isn’t this what’s known as the “two-income trap”? You’ve jacked up your expenses and now you need to work crazy hours.

FWIW, DH makes $275k at this current job (I make $175k). He had the opportunity for a role that would pay $350-400k (i.e., guaranteed private school for our kids) but we both agreed to turn it down because it would bump up his working hours from 8-9 hours/day to 12+ hours a day. He likes the bond with his children.

Same choice here but with less money. We are now both feds but are present available parents. OP, big law is not supposed to be forever for most people. It’s an opportunity to get your financial house in order (no debt, a good retirement start, a nice house with a low mortgage). Once you get set you exit and enjoy life and your kids. Instead you have fastened on some golden handcuffs and now you are trapped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

No way are they making 450 a person.
And less than 1% of people entering law end up as partner.

??? Why do you doubt they’re making $450k each? DH is a (junior nonequity) partner and I’m a senior associate and that sounds like a close/low guess to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not sustainable. Are you really going to spend all of your hours working just so you can have a bigger house, more expensive cars, and private elementary? That’s just sad. One of both of you needs to dial back before you miss your kids’ entire childhoods.

Listen to this. It goes fast. My oldest is 10 and I spent his first 5 years in big law. Where did the time go. Two parent track lawyers can make $150-200k each. That is plenty to live on if you have no debt, aren’t house poor, and use good public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

No way are they making 450 a person.
And less than 1% of people entering law end up as partner.

??? Why do you doubt they’re making $450k each? DH is a (junior nonequity) partner and I’m a senior associate and that sounds like a close/low guess to me.

We don't know what year they are or even if it's big law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

No way are they making 450 a person.
And less than 1% of people entering law end up as partner.

??? Why do you doubt they’re making $450k each? DH is a (junior nonequity) partner and I’m a senior associate and that sounds like a close/low guess to me.

We don't know what year they are or even if it's big law.

And yet the quoted says there is “no way” they are making $450k each. Actually there are several ways that could be right. Both at market-paying boutiques as sr associates or counsel or jr partners, both in biglaw, both in slightly below market boutiques, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

No way are they making 450 a person.
And less than 1% of people entering law end up as partner.

??? Why do you doubt they’re making $450k each? DH is a (junior nonequity) partner and I’m a senior associate and that sounds like a close/low guess to me.

We don't know what year they are or even if it's big law.

And yet the quoted says there is “no way” they are making $450k each. Actually there are several ways that could be right. Both at market-paying boutiques as sr associates or counsel or jr partners, both in biglaw, both in slightly below market boutiques, etc etc.

If they were big law jr partners they would have mentioned it.
The average associate salary in the DC area is $96,000
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/posting/associate-attorney-law-firm-salary/washington-dc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.

I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.

I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.

We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.

I think this is a lifestyle issue, like other people are pointing out.

Since you say you're burned out and overwhelmed, you have already figured out this isn't sustainable. You could maybe use a meal service or personal chef as other people mentioned. Cash in the cars -- why do you need a nice car with two such little kids? Education, my kids are also both private school and I agree that isn't something you'd want to cut. But if downsizing could give you more flexibility I'd do that in a second. Maybe see if any teens in the area would like a job playing with the kids and tidying up. We had someone like that when my youngest was a baby, she did dishes and laundry a few days a week and it saved us some time.

You need to take a big step back and think. What do you want your life to be?

COVID has been a sh*tshow, but one of the really amazing things for me was WFH seeing one of my kids through first grade and the other between the years of 3-4. What an amazing time this has been from that perspective... the memories I have for a lifetime, I wouldn't trade for a billion dollars. Mine are 7 and 4 now. The oldest has five more years before becoming a teenager. At that point, parenting gets really different. I think these are the years for me to lay back on work and really create those memories with them that will be the backbone of their lives. And you can't get those five years back. The years when my oldest was little, I had to work like crazy to get the seniority and flexibility I have now. I was able to flex a lot more than you can now and spent every available moment, including lunch breaks, with my child. But it still feels like it went by way too fast.

Also, hate to say this, but it becomes more complicated as they get older. Their needs and schedules get a little more chaotic. If you ever want life to feel manageable, your husband needs to reassess also. Family lives with two intense schedules just aren't a thing. I know a lot of my friends whose parents had those lives and they are closer to the nannies who raised them.

[Anonymous]

It’s a bittersweet symphony this life
You are a slave to the money, then you die

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the heck do you both do that is important enough to warrant such long hours? Good lord, that’s a messed up way to live. How did you manage to even conceive children?

this. Are you being the parent you want to be? What is your HHI with this schedule?

[Anonymous]

What does a housekeeper cost per hour?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolling forever at suggestions for a full time housekeeper and private chef for 2 biglaw associates. They aren’t hedge fund managers!

A full time housekeeper is very affordable for two big law associates. Get real.

I don’t agree. The idea of biglaw is to save up some money, not spend it all. If they’re both equity partners now that’s one thing but that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Exactly. There is no guarantee of making partner and that sweet 450k+ per person will drop to half or a third if they don’t make it. No way will Op hire a chef or housekeeper even if they could technically afford it right now.

so you ruin your lives when your kids are young and then what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were both promoted in our jobs over the past year, which is great.. except our promotions came with much bigger workloads. I always worked long hours really, but in the past DH’s job was much more flexible but now he is generally working from 8am to 9pm with a quick break for dinner some nights. Much of his day is spent in meetings he needs to attend, even in the evenings. My job is extremely demanding but a bit more flexible and I am usually ON from 9-5:30 and then go back on around 8pm when the kids are in bed and work for 2-3 hours.

The problem is that now I have 2 full time jobs - day job and kids/house - with minimal help from DH. This feels really unsustainable in the long run because o am at the end of my rope. My days consist of waking up, getting kids (2 and 6) dressed and fed, taking older one to school, working all day, dinner prep/cook/clean, kids baths, bedtime craziness, back to work until 10/11pm, clean house until way too late, repeat. This doesn’t even include grocery shopping, coordinating everyone’s schedules and appointments, school projects, and so much more which also always falls on me.

We already have a full time nanny who works from 8:30-5:30pm daily and a cleaning lady once per week so I do outsource what I can. What more can I do to make life easier? I try to make really easy meals but nothing is under and hour with prep and clean up.

How do others who have crazy work schedules and demands like this do it? I am so burnt out but we need the income so me leaving my job really isn’t an option.

You get someone to do cleaning more often and/or get more childcare (same nanny, if possible, someone else if not), that way whatever time you get with your children is quality time (that doesn't mean just fun, but it does mean time focused on them, not housework).